Cancer survival poorest in UK.
Discussion
I've been following this news all day and drew my own conclusion on what the report in the lancet was trying to say. Finally on the 6 o'clock news they almost said it.
The GP system we use to get to see a specialist does not work.
The problem seems to be that as the gatekeeper to see Specialists and get hospital appointments we rely on someone trained (highly) in general medicine to recognise a few symptoms that may look like a number of other lesser things as being a type of cancer or unusual disease such as Miopathy.
The French/American system of being able to see a specialist in the body part that is affected seems to be a far more sensible system.
So why, when the government is so happy to tinker with the funding elements of the NHS aren't they willing to deal with a problem that is actually killing their citizens?
Vested interests?
The GP system we use to get to see a specialist does not work.
The problem seems to be that as the gatekeeper to see Specialists and get hospital appointments we rely on someone trained (highly) in general medicine to recognise a few symptoms that may look like a number of other lesser things as being a type of cancer or unusual disease such as Miopathy.
The French/American system of being able to see a specialist in the body part that is affected seems to be a far more sensible system.
So why, when the government is so happy to tinker with the funding elements of the NHS aren't they willing to deal with a problem that is actually killing their citizens?
Vested interests?
You may be right, but unfortunately the problem is far deeper and more serious than this.
Though some specialist cancer hospitals such as the Christie hospital in Manchester may well be excellent, the quality of medical care is very variable with some General Hospitals delivering such poor standards they are frankly unfit for purpose and an unsatisfactory outcome will be delivered whether the GP has correctly directed the patient or not.
My father was unfortunate to suffer this. He went to his GP with gastric and urinary problems in 2008. He was referred to a specialist at Tameside hospital who was unable to make a diagnosis despite my father undergoing exhaustive tests.
He ruled out cancer in one of them despite blood in the urine which was ultimately so severe his urine was such deep red it was nigh on black, very rapid weight loss, exhaustion, abdominal pain, changes in bowel habits and significant problems with blood chemistry. His condition was described as serious but not dangerous.
My father rapidly became more and more ill and was an inpatient for eight weeks. Nursing standards were so poor in the hospital that my mother needed to wash him; the staff did not seem to do it.
His medical team seemed to loose interest, diagnosing "some kind of auto immune disease,” discharged him and prescribed a massive dose of Prednisalone which was administered entirely unsupervised - my father needed to phone the hospital even to discover his end date. A follow up appointment was made in this phone call for a month's time, but by then he was dead.
My father was deteriorating rapidly and was loosing so much blood in his urine he needed a blood transfusion, something which seemed not to concern Tameside, so my mother called an ambulance and had him admitted to Warrington General Hospital. They booked him in for a battery of tests which kept being cancelled and to my knowledge were never done. Warrington took the attitude that it was Tameside's problem simply giving my father a blood transfusion administered over several days. Medical and nursing staff were almost as disinterested as Tameside. After a week Warrington discharged my dad, needing no treatment.
My mother was unhappy with this and called the GP. He came immediately and was shocked by my father's appearance. He had him admitted to Stepping Hill hospital that evening.
The doctor at Stepping Hill examined my father and viewed the scans taken some months earlier at Tameside and identified a suspected tumour the size of a large orange. Palpation confirmed this.
My father suffered a heart attack a week or so later which led to massive hypoxic brain damage. He was constantly fitting which caused him to call out and the hospital wanted to put him in a “side ward” to minimise disruption. This “side ward” was a cupboard and my mother’s sadness and frustration with the abysmal nursing he had received on the NHS she felt that his suffering in the last days should be minimised and we were lucky enough for him to be transferred to St Rocco’s Hospice. Though the standard of medical treatment at Stepping Hill was all you would want, nursing was little better there than at Tameside or Warrington.
My father was a very fit man who went to the gym 3 times a week so consequently he lasted eight days at the hospice.
The hospice was superb; its staff was as dedicated, caring and competent as the NHS was disinterested and dismissive and inept. My father’s fitting was under control within half an hour of his arrival and he seemed peaceful rather than overwhelmed by pain.
The doctor there was a woman called Dr. Esraa Sulaivany. I mention her by name since I feel deep gratitude to her to this day for all she did for my father in his last days.
My father’s autopsy revealed prostate cancer which had spread into the bladder and bowel. It was the size of a small melon. I guess the first doctors who could read a scan were at Stepping Hill.
I tell this sad story as stark illustration. The problem in British cancer care is much deeper than the way GP’s referrals are undertaken, indeed apportionment of blame in my father’s case does not lie with his GP.
Britain has one of the worst cancer survival rates in the whole EU. My father’s experience of disinterested, disorganised and chaotic incompetence is far from unique.
Though some specialist cancer hospitals such as the Christie hospital in Manchester may well be excellent, the quality of medical care is very variable with some General Hospitals delivering such poor standards they are frankly unfit for purpose and an unsatisfactory outcome will be delivered whether the GP has correctly directed the patient or not.
My father was unfortunate to suffer this. He went to his GP with gastric and urinary problems in 2008. He was referred to a specialist at Tameside hospital who was unable to make a diagnosis despite my father undergoing exhaustive tests.
He ruled out cancer in one of them despite blood in the urine which was ultimately so severe his urine was such deep red it was nigh on black, very rapid weight loss, exhaustion, abdominal pain, changes in bowel habits and significant problems with blood chemistry. His condition was described as serious but not dangerous.
My father rapidly became more and more ill and was an inpatient for eight weeks. Nursing standards were so poor in the hospital that my mother needed to wash him; the staff did not seem to do it.
His medical team seemed to loose interest, diagnosing "some kind of auto immune disease,” discharged him and prescribed a massive dose of Prednisalone which was administered entirely unsupervised - my father needed to phone the hospital even to discover his end date. A follow up appointment was made in this phone call for a month's time, but by then he was dead.
My father was deteriorating rapidly and was loosing so much blood in his urine he needed a blood transfusion, something which seemed not to concern Tameside, so my mother called an ambulance and had him admitted to Warrington General Hospital. They booked him in for a battery of tests which kept being cancelled and to my knowledge were never done. Warrington took the attitude that it was Tameside's problem simply giving my father a blood transfusion administered over several days. Medical and nursing staff were almost as disinterested as Tameside. After a week Warrington discharged my dad, needing no treatment.
My mother was unhappy with this and called the GP. He came immediately and was shocked by my father's appearance. He had him admitted to Stepping Hill hospital that evening.
The doctor at Stepping Hill examined my father and viewed the scans taken some months earlier at Tameside and identified a suspected tumour the size of a large orange. Palpation confirmed this.
My father suffered a heart attack a week or so later which led to massive hypoxic brain damage. He was constantly fitting which caused him to call out and the hospital wanted to put him in a “side ward” to minimise disruption. This “side ward” was a cupboard and my mother’s sadness and frustration with the abysmal nursing he had received on the NHS she felt that his suffering in the last days should be minimised and we were lucky enough for him to be transferred to St Rocco’s Hospice. Though the standard of medical treatment at Stepping Hill was all you would want, nursing was little better there than at Tameside or Warrington.
My father was a very fit man who went to the gym 3 times a week so consequently he lasted eight days at the hospice.
The hospice was superb; its staff was as dedicated, caring and competent as the NHS was disinterested and dismissive and inept. My father’s fitting was under control within half an hour of his arrival and he seemed peaceful rather than overwhelmed by pain.
The doctor there was a woman called Dr. Esraa Sulaivany. I mention her by name since I feel deep gratitude to her to this day for all she did for my father in his last days.
My father’s autopsy revealed prostate cancer which had spread into the bladder and bowel. It was the size of a small melon. I guess the first doctors who could read a scan were at Stepping Hill.
I tell this sad story as stark illustration. The problem in British cancer care is much deeper than the way GP’s referrals are undertaken, indeed apportionment of blame in my father’s case does not lie with his GP.
Britain has one of the worst cancer survival rates in the whole EU. My father’s experience of disinterested, disorganised and chaotic incompetence is far from unique.
Edited by dbdb on Wednesday 22 December 20:23
Mikeyboy said:
So why, when the government is so happy to tinker with the funding elements of the NHS aren't they willing to deal with a problem that is actually killing their citizens?
Isn't that exactly what they are doing by passing funding and control to the GP so there is no longer a gatekeeper between patient and specialist?Reading that post made me feel ill having lost 3st over the last 2yrs with no apparent reason followed by abdominal pain, irregular bowel movements, exhaustion and other varying things that still haven't been resolved.
I finally got an app at the hospital, referred by my GP, in Nov 09 for an ultrasound of my abdomen. By Feb 2010 I'd heard nothing so went back to the GP, saw a Gastroenterologist in June 2010 who looked at Nov 09's ultrasound results, he gave me an app for camera up my arse in July 2010 and I was told the results in Nov 2010. And they were still none the wiser. An entire f
king year to tell me they didn't really know what the problem was.
Then I read things like that post, and I'm horrified.
I finally got an app at the hospital, referred by my GP, in Nov 09 for an ultrasound of my abdomen. By Feb 2010 I'd heard nothing so went back to the GP, saw a Gastroenterologist in June 2010 who looked at Nov 09's ultrasound results, he gave me an app for camera up my arse in July 2010 and I was told the results in Nov 2010. And they were still none the wiser. An entire f
king year to tell me they didn't really know what the problem was.Then I read things like that post, and I'm horrified.
dbdb said:
Britain has one of the worst cancer survival rates in the whole EU. My father’s experience of disinterested, disorganised and chaotic incompetence is far from unique.
I must say I was very, very moved by your post. I hope no-one else would ever have to go through such a thing.dbdb, sorry for your loss. That's a shocking and saddening account of your father's treatment. Unfortunately it's far from unusual.
My mother and her sister died of the same cancer within months of one another. Although their treatment was
better than your father's it was certainly lacklustre and slooooow. They both got the standard NHS single treatment (chemo), then you're on your own!
The only people who I have any respect for are the carers who provided palliative care at home. Wonderful people working for poverty wages.
IMO the NHS will never provide proper cancer treatment. My advice, get cancer in Europe or the US.
My mother and her sister died of the same cancer within months of one another. Although their treatment was
better than your father's it was certainly lacklustre and slooooow. They both got the standard NHS single treatment (chemo), then you're on your own!
The only people who I have any respect for are the carers who provided palliative care at home. Wonderful people working for poverty wages.
IMO the NHS will never provide proper cancer treatment. My advice, get cancer in Europe or the US.
Edited by supersingle on Wednesday 22 December 21:37
Jasandjules said:
dbdb said:
Britain has one of the worst cancer survival rates in the whole EU. My father’s experience of disinterested, disorganised and chaotic incompetence is far from unique.
I must say I was very, very moved by your post. I hope no-one else would ever have to go through such a thing.NEVER HEARD OF BASELINE PSA FIGURES TO BE RECORDED FOR FUTURE REFERENCE THEN??? IT'S A
DISGRACE.Having seen, over the space of two decades, the number of deaths in my combined family, through what I can only describe as NHS incompetence, your best hope IS going out with a bang!!
Hospices and their staff, however, are really VERY special institutions and individuals.
I am very wary of reports such as this.
First of all, s far as the UK's position in the EU is concerned, I bet Ireland has a worse record (it often comes bottom in these tables).
Secondly, the report talks of survival rates FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED.
I would be more interested in those who have/had cancer AND WERE NEVER DIAGNOSED.
Where does the UK come in THAT table?
Finally, charities always issue reports that tell us bad news. I've never heard a charity issue a report that says, "Things are fine in our area of interest".
First of all, s far as the UK's position in the EU is concerned, I bet Ireland has a worse record (it often comes bottom in these tables).
Secondly, the report talks of survival rates FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED.
I would be more interested in those who have/had cancer AND WERE NEVER DIAGNOSED.
Where does the UK come in THAT table?
Finally, charities always issue reports that tell us bad news. I've never heard a charity issue a report that says, "Things are fine in our area of interest".
Back ache, there's another issue I've had for 6-7 weeks now. When I went to the walk-in centre (back at the start of November) I was simply told to take the strongest paracetomol and ibuprofen I could buy. Not exactly going to solve the problem.
What pisses me off is that I think I'm being ignored because of my age. At 29 (28 at the time) their attitude was always that I was too young for cancer / back problems / insert whatever may be causing these symptoms, this despite three out of four grandparents dying of cancer.
What pisses me off is that I think I'm being ignored because of my age. At 29 (28 at the time) their attitude was always that I was too young for cancer / back problems / insert whatever may be causing these symptoms, this despite three out of four grandparents dying of cancer.
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