MR2 Mk 2 N/A engine choice

[pigiron]

I wish to purchase a normally aspirated MR2 Mk2 and would apreciate some advice on the various engines available and like most people I am after the most bang for my buck.

According to Wiki the European 1993 GT Coupe with the NA 2.0L 3S-GE engine produced 152 hp) but apparently a revision in late 1993 the 3S-GE was uprated to 180 hp.

Can anyone confirm that a GT Coupe registered in September of 1993 would have the 180 bhp motor?

Any sugestions about which n/a model to look for would be appreciated.

[MikeyMike]

Whats your budget? Your figures are a little bit off. There were essentially 3 different N/A engines fitted to the MK2 MR2 (SW20) over its time in production. They are the 3SFE which had an output of 119bhp, the 3SGE the output of which varied from 158bhp to 173bhp and then 168bhp. And finally a VVTI equipped engine commonly known as the BEAMS engine which produced around 190bhp but is very rare.

A 1993 UK car would be fitted with the 173bhp engine. Bear in mind that the performance figures for 158/173 and 168bhp engined MR2 are near enough identical.

[Mark-t]

Good answer above.
Except that a '93 will be a 'K' plate so most likely a Revision 2 with 158bhp..
Admitedly, you wont feel the difference between the 158 and 174bhp anyway.

Just pick the car you prefer/best condition, history, etc..

Edited by Mark-t on Friday 31st December 19:04

[MikeyMike]

Yep I got my dates mixed up, the Rev2/3 changeover came in October 93 so it would be a Rev2 (158bhp). As stated, go on condition rather than age/revision. They're all old cars now and some are real old nails these days.

[Ug_lee]

If it's any help performance wise they are very close but the rev2 engine 'felt' torquier and a bit more willing to pull at low revs. The Rev4 engine had to be revved that bit harder to get the same from it.

[dblack1]

MikeyMike said:

Whats your budget? Your figures are a little bit off. There were essentially 3 different N/A engines fitted to the MK2 MR2 (SW20) over its time in production. They are the 3SFE which had an output of 119bhp, the 3SGE the output of which varied from 158bhp to 173bhp and then 168bhp. And finally a VVTI equipped engine commonly known as the BEAMS engine which produced around 190bhp but is very rare.

A 1993 UK car would be fitted with the 173bhp engine. Bear in mind that the performance figures for 158/173 and 168bhp engined MR2 are near enough identical.

You missed one. 5sfe, not a very powerful motor (but more than the 3sfe)... but the head can be swapped on some of them(pre 94 i think) for a 3sge (NOT BEAMS) or 3sgte head to make quite a bit more power. K, just a little note for looking at the toyota s motors... the first number indicates the displacement 3 is for 2 liters and 5 is 2.2 liters. the s denotes that it is a s motor, the 3rd digit indicates the head, f is a fuel efficient head and g is a performance head. I used to have a 93 NA (5sfe) that i was going to look into swapping the head, but i decided not to (even see if i had the right block) because i was going to have to sell the car when i moved.

at some point in time toyota changed the cooling system in the 5sfe and 3sge/3sgte heads would not fit on the motor, but nobody seems to know exactly when that happened (happened at different years with different vehicles).

Edit: The 5sfe has great throttle response

Edited by dblack1 on Sunday 2nd January 06:47

[Mark-t]

dblack1 said:

MikeyMike said:

There were essentially 3 different N/A engines fitted to the MK2 MR2 (SW20) over its time in production. They are the 3SFE which had an output of 119bhp...

You missed one.

No, he didn't.

Edit: Ignore me. 5SFE? Never heard of that one. Was that sold in the UK?

Edited by Mark-t on Sunday 2nd January 11:03

[pigiron]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. The reason for asking is that I am looking for a suitable car for low budget Autocrss events in France. The quickest cars are rear or mid engined, but as you know there is not alot of choice these days. The main problem I can see with the MK2 is the weight, any one know what they weigh once all the rubbish is thrown away?

[spudgun GB]

dblack1 said:

MikeyMike said:

Whats your budget? Your figures are a little bit off. There were essentially 3 different N/A engines fitted to the MK2 MR2 (SW20) over its time in production. They are the 3SFE which had an output of 119bhp, the 3SGE the output of which varied from 158bhp to 173bhp and then 168bhp. And finally a VVTI equipped engine commonly known as the BEAMS engine which produced around 190bhp but is very rare.

A 1993 UK car would be fitted with the 173bhp engine. Bear in mind that the performance figures for 158/173 and 168bhp engined MR2 are near enough identical.

You missed one. 5sfe, not a very powerful motor (but more than the 3sfe)... but the head can be swapped on some of them(pre 94 i think) for a 3sge (NOT BEAMS) or 3sgte head to make quite a bit more power. K, just a little note for looking at the toyota s motors... the first number indicates the displacement 3 is for 2 liters and 5 is 2.2 liters. the s denotes that it is a s motor, the 3rd digit indicates the head, f is a fuel efficient head and g is a performance head. I used to have a 93 NA (5sfe) that i was going to look into swapping the head, but i decided not to (even see if i had the right block) because i was going to have to sell the car when i moved.

at some point in time toyota changed the cooling system in the 5sfe and 3sge/3sgte heads would not fit on the motor, but nobody seems to know exactly when that happened (happened at different years with different vehicles).

Edit: The 5sfe has great throttle response

Edited by dblack1 on Sunday 2nd January 06:47

The 5sfe wasn't a motor that we saw in this country. I'm pretty sure it was an America only fitment.

Also, don't take this the wrong way, but I think you have the Toyota engine suffix coding a bit wrong.

The first number is the generation number of that type of engine. The second character, a letter, is the engine type. The third is, as you say, the cylinder head designation. I'm pretty sure all "G" heads are designed by Yamaha and as you say are the sporty ones. The "F" is the economy one. The "E" on the end stands for electronic fuel injection.

[Ug_lee]

5S-FE was only available in US Mk2's.

I think without going mental with lightweight materials and just binning anything not needed, possibly around 1100Kg?

A chap in Oz has got remarkably close to 1000Kg, but that final 50-100Kg loss is expensive to achieve.

[dblack1]

spudgun GB said:

dblack1 said:

MikeyMike said:

Whats your budget? Your figures are a little bit off. There were essentially 3 different N/A engines fitted to the MK2 MR2 (SW20) over its time in production. They are the 3SFE which had an output of 119bhp, the 3SGE the output of which varied from 158bhp to 173bhp and then 168bhp. And finally a VVTI equipped engine commonly known as the BEAMS engine which produced around 190bhp but is very rare.

A 1993 UK car would be fitted with the 173bhp engine. Bear in mind that the performance figures for 158/173 and 168bhp engined MR2 are near enough identical.

You missed one. 5sfe, not a very powerful motor (but more than the 3sfe)... but the head can be swapped on some of them(pre 94 i think) for a 3sge (NOT BEAMS) or 3sgte head to make quite a bit more power. K, just a little note for looking at the toyota s motors... the first number indicates the displacement 3 is for 2 liters and 5 is 2.2 liters. the s denotes that it is a s motor, the 3rd digit indicates the head, f is a fuel efficient head and g is a performance head. I used to have a 93 NA (5sfe) that i was going to look into swapping the head, but i decided not to (even see if i had the right block) because i was going to have to sell the car when i moved.

at some point in time toyota changed the cooling system in the 5sfe and 3sge/3sgte heads would not fit on the motor, but nobody seems to know exactly when that happened (happened at different years with different vehicles).

Edit: The 5sfe has great throttle response

Edited by dblack1 on Sunday 2nd January 06:47

The 5sfe wasn't a motor that we saw in this country. I'm pretty sure it was an America only fitment.

Also, don't take this the wrong way, but I think you have the Toyota engine suffix coding a bit wrong.

The first number is the generation number of that type of engine. The second character, a letter, is the engine type. The third is, as you say, the cylinder head designation. I'm pretty sure all "G" heads are designed by Yamaha and as you say are the sporty ones. The "F" is the economy one. The "E" on the end stands for electronic fuel injection.

So your telling me that all 3 engines are the same generation? what about BEAMS?

Your right about the 5sfe not being in europe... I didnt think about that till i had already posted (I live in america).

[spudgun GB]

dblack1 said:

spudgun GB said:

dblack1 said:

MikeyMike said:

Whats your budget? Your figures are a little bit off. There were essentially 3 different N/A engines fitted to the MK2 MR2 (SW20) over its time in production. They are the 3SFE which had an output of 119bhp, the 3SGE the output of which varied from 158bhp to 173bhp and then 168bhp. And finally a VVTI equipped engine commonly known as the BEAMS engine which produced around 190bhp but is very rare.

A 1993 UK car would be fitted with the 173bhp engine. Bear in mind that the performance figures for 158/173 and 168bhp engined MR2 are near enough identical.

You missed one. 5sfe, not a very powerful motor (but more than the 3sfe)... but the head can be swapped on some of them(pre 94 i think) for a 3sge (NOT BEAMS) or 3sgte head to make quite a bit more power. K, just a little note for looking at the toyota s motors... the first number indicates the displacement 3 is for 2 liters and 5 is 2.2 liters. the s denotes that it is a s motor, the 3rd digit indicates the head, f is a fuel efficient head and g is a performance head. I used to have a 93 NA (5sfe) that i was going to look into swapping the head, but i decided not to (even see if i had the right block) because i was going to have to sell the car when i moved.

at some point in time toyota changed the cooling system in the 5sfe and 3sge/3sgte heads would not fit on the motor, but nobody seems to know exactly when that happened (happened at different years with different vehicles).

Edit: The 5sfe has great throttle response

Edited by dblack1 on Sunday 2nd January 06:47

The 5sfe wasn't a motor that we saw in this country. I'm pretty sure it was an America only fitment.

Also, don't take this the wrong way, but I think you have the Toyota engine suffix coding a bit wrong.

The first number is the generation number of that type of engine. The second character, a letter, is the engine type. The third is, as you say, the cylinder head designation. I'm pretty sure all "G" heads are designed by Yamaha and as you say are the sporty ones. The "F" is the economy one. The "E" on the end stands for electronic fuel injection.

So your telling me that all 3 engines are the same generation? what about BEAMS?

Your right about the 5sfe not being in europe... I didnt think about that till i had already posted (I live in america).

I'm no expert on the 3sge but know my way around a 4age. Over the years there have been revisions but they still class it as the same generation. For example the early 4age crank had smaller main and big end journals. They changed that after a couple of years for the supercharged 4AGZE and then the same crank followed through right until the end of the 20v black top.
It is said that a 20v head would bolt straight to a earlier 16v block if you were to change the pistons as well. Toyota don't do any more work than they have to

This is why you have the 1zzfe and the 2zzge. The 1zz is the first gen which has a different bore and stroke to the 2zz. The 1zz is designed for higher torque (with a longer stroke, I think) where the 2zz is a revver. Even though they have the same displacement very few parts are shared between the 2 engines. I hope this makes some sense.

All the best

Steve

[dblack1]

those arent s motors. The information that i listed applies to s motors. With the S motors the first number was an indicator of displacement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_S_engine
While wikipedia is not always right, this has a chart showing s motors, when they were made, and the displacement (among other things).

[spudgun GB]

dblack1 said:

those arent s motors. The information that i listed applies to s motors. With the S motors the first number was an indicator of displacement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_S_engine
While wikipedia is not always right, this has a chart showing s motors, when they were made, and the displacement (among other things).

But it's not. Read the page you have just linked to. A 3S could be either 2.0 or 2.1.

If were going to use wiki, this might help you out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toyota_engine...

Edited by spudgun GB on Sunday 2nd January 21:55

[Malcster]

dblack1 said:

So your telling me that all 3 engines are the same generation? what about BEAMS?

BEAMS engines were from Rev5 JDMs basically an N/A G-limited with a red top 200bhp vvti engine.

Few spanky extras too I think - red stitched wheel and gear gaiter etc.

1000 made - so fairly rare (and Jap only)

BEAMS = Breakthrough Engine with Advanced Mechanism System (I think)

Edited by Malcster on Wednesday 5th January 23:29

Edited by Malcster on Wednesday 5th January 23:30

[Malcster]

...man I hate typing on this phone, took me a million attempts to post that.

Edited by Malcster on Wednesday 5th January 23:31

[dblack1]

i wasnt asking about beams, it was a rehtorical question. Some people think that toyota numbers everything the same.