Oil Boiler Service complaint....how to go about it
Discussion
Mods please don't move as it relates to a topic I started here.
Long story short - In early Dec our Oil Boiler was serviced by our Oil provider. One week later in extreme weather and extreme temps our boiler packed up. I started this thread in this section of PH
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Boilers just packed up.....HELP !!&mid=92363
Basically asked for thoughts on what might be wrong. Thought that it was down to the extreme temps. At this time my girlfriend was very ill and living in a very cold house wasn't good for her. Despite some help fir Ferg and getting the boiler going again a couple of times, it died on us. Called the company on a Sunday and asked for an emergency call out - G/F really needed heat in house so couldnt wait any longer. We knew the price would be expensive but I didn't care. So, on phone to engineer on the Sunday. It was clear this guy didn't want to come out. I asked if the service perhaps caused the boiler to pack up - I got an empathic No the service couldn't have caused this.
Eventually he gave in trying to persuade us to leave it till the Monday, which was just as well because we got a huge dump of snow on the Sunday night and they'd never have got to us, and came out. We left him in peace and sure enough shortly after we heard it fire up. Went through and asked what he had done to bring it back to life.I cleaned the photocell. This ofcourse should have been cleaned in the service the week before. Wasn't the same engineer and he agreed it should have been done in service. He also agreed I shouldn't pay for it - I told him I wouldn't be. Anyway today the invoice dropped through the door - £210. We'd already apid for the service £110. I'm fizzing - more than that - I'm angry as f
k. I called the office-the person that deals with my area had left for the day. I've to call back tomorrow. So - my question is where do I stand legally with this and how should I handle the call? I don't want to lose it - which I have been prone to do. I know this won't get me anywhere. Everything is going through my head and I'm getting angrier and angrier. What if they say you have to pay? Surely I have some rights under Consumer rights?
As I understand it the photocell is an important safety device the guy completely forgot to check. The guy who did clean it agreed it should have been done - but didn't want to drop his mate in it !! So we have to pay !
Anyway - any advice on where I stand/how to handle the call would be appreciated.
Sorry for any bad spelling/grammat - I'm a bit annoyed.
Cheers.
Did Engineer 2 leave you with any paperwork describing what he did? Does the invoice say "cleaned photocell"?. If so, point out that this should be checked on the service and make it clear you're not paying.
Don't lose your temper with whoever answers the phone either, it's not their fault after all. I've had to attend too many jobs where someone else has cocked up and on the rare occasions someone has had a go at me, I make it clear that they either shut up and let me sort it out, or I leave and they're no better off. Very few people carry on ranting after that ;-)
Don't lose your temper with whoever answers the phone either, it's not their fault after all. I've had to attend too many jobs where someone else has cocked up and on the rare occasions someone has had a go at me, I make it clear that they either shut up and let me sort it out, or I leave and they're no better off. Very few people carry on ranting after that ;-)
I am guessing that the two engineers came from the same company?
If so, simply reply to the invoice with a polite letter explaining what you have explained in your post above. Make it clear that you don't think that you should be paying for visit #2, as it was only necessary as visit #1 wasn't done as it should have been.
You could add that you don't consider an apology for the inconvenience caused to you and your missis would be out of order either.
Be polite, clear and open. When they reply, let us know what they say.
Oli.
If so, simply reply to the invoice with a polite letter explaining what you have explained in your post above. Make it clear that you don't think that you should be paying for visit #2, as it was only necessary as visit #1 wasn't done as it should have been.
You could add that you don't consider an apology for the inconvenience caused to you and your missis would be out of order either.
Be polite, clear and open. When they reply, let us know what they say.
Oli.
This is an interesting question. Whether the photocell should be cleaned is kind of questionable. It needs to see the flame to avoid shutting the burner down and after a re-light or two it'll lock-out. Assuming the boiler is running BEFORE the service there's no reason to think that the photocell needs cleaning....
However....
I clean them on service because it takes seconds AND if a boiler is sooting it's photocell it sounds like it's rich.... what sort of service leaves a boiler running rich!!??
However....
I clean them on service because it takes seconds AND if a boiler is sooting it's photocell it sounds like it's rich.... what sort of service leaves a boiler running rich!!??
Thanks for the replies - advice much appreciated.
The two engineers are from the same company. I did not see or speak with engineer 1. I was at work G/F was off work that day. He did what he considered a service - said there were no problems just needed a new nozzle - which he fitted and then left.
Engineer 2 was a bit peeved at having to come out especially since I'd said over the phone I think it was the service. His persona changed when he realised it was the service. He said the would put it through follow up to service. We recieved a job sheet about a week after. In engineer comments he wrote - Nozzle Assembly Dirty. Cleaned + Adjusted. Carried Out Combustion test. In the call code box he put a question mark - since he told us it was a follow up to the service. Nevered filled out any hours.
ETA - G/F has just informed me Engineer1+ 2 left the job sheet there and then.
Also - if the boiler had packed up due to the extreme weather/temps and they had fixed it - the money wouldn't have bothered me. Just don't want to pay for something Engineer 2 said should be done.
The two engineers are from the same company. I did not see or speak with engineer 1. I was at work G/F was off work that day. He did what he considered a service - said there were no problems just needed a new nozzle - which he fitted and then left.
Engineer 2 was a bit peeved at having to come out especially since I'd said over the phone I think it was the service. His persona changed when he realised it was the service. He said the would put it through follow up to service. We recieved a job sheet about a week after. In engineer comments he wrote - Nozzle Assembly Dirty. Cleaned + Adjusted. Carried Out Combustion test. In the call code box he put a question mark - since he told us it was a follow up to the service. Nevered filled out any hours.
ETA - G/F has just informed me Engineer1+ 2 left the job sheet there and then.
Also - if the boiler had packed up due to the extreme weather/temps and they had fixed it - the money wouldn't have bothered me. Just don't want to pay for something Engineer 2 said should be done.
Edited by Craphouserat on Wednesday 5th January 19:34
Ferg said:
This is an interesting question. Whether the photocell should be cleaned is kind of questionable. It needs to see the flame to avoid shutting the burner down and after a re-light or two it'll lock-out. Assuming the boiler is running BEFORE the service there's no reason to think that the photocell needs cleaning....
However....
I clean them on service because it takes seconds AND if a boiler is sooting it's photocell it sounds like it's rich.... what sort of service leaves a boiler running rich!!??
Cheers Ferg - your advice/thoughts, as always appreciated with this. Your help managed to get the boiler going again and we thought it was the weather. What does running rich mean? Sorry to sound like a halfwit - would like to check if it is just now.However....
I clean them on service because it takes seconds AND if a boiler is sooting it's photocell it sounds like it's rich.... what sort of service leaves a boiler running rich!!??
Engineer 2 said he hated the type of boiler we have. It was fitted just before we looked at the place. A Trianco Contractor Combi Boiler - I bloody hate the thing to. Never had a combi before or Oil - hate them both just now !
MonkeyHanger said:
Did Engineer 2 leave you with any paperwork describing what he did? Does the invoice say "cleaned photocell"?. If so, point out that this should be checked on the service and make it clear you're not paying.
Don't lose your temper with whoever answers the phone either, it's not their fault after all. I've had to attend too many jobs where someone else has cocked up and on the rare occasions someone has had a go at me, I make it clear that they either shut up and let me sort it out, or I leave and they're no better off. Very few people carry on ranting after that ;-)
I understand what you are saying - G/F is going to give them a call. Ever since the service it hasnt been the same - it loses pressure quickly and makes a hell of a noise.Don't lose your temper with whoever answers the phone either, it's not their fault after all. I've had to attend too many jobs where someone else has cocked up and on the rare occasions someone has had a go at me, I make it clear that they either shut up and let me sort it out, or I leave and they're no better off. Very few people carry on ranting after that ;-)
I know it isn't the office girls fault and I'm glad she was out ! I won't be using the company again.
Thanks for your reply.
Cheers.
Craphouserat said:
Ferg said:
This is an interesting question. Whether the photocell should be cleaned is kind of questionable. It needs to see the flame to avoid shutting the burner down and after a re-light or two it'll lock-out. Assuming the boiler is running BEFORE the service there's no reason to think that the photocell needs cleaning....
However....
I clean them on service because it takes seconds AND if a boiler is sooting it's photocell it sounds like it's rich.... what sort of service leaves a boiler running rich!!??
Cheers Ferg - your advice/thoughts, as always appreciated with this. Your help managed to get the boiler going again and we thought it was the weather. What does running rich mean? Sorry to sound like a halfwit - would like to check if it is just now.However....
I clean them on service because it takes seconds AND if a boiler is sooting it's photocell it sounds like it's rich.... what sort of service leaves a boiler running rich!!??
Engineer 2 said he hated the type of boiler we have. It was fitted just before we looked at the place. A Trianco Contractor Combi Boiler - I bloody hate the thing to. Never had a combi before or Oil - hate them both just now !
Running lean is too much air to fuel.
When a boiler is commissioned and serviced, it should have the flue gas analysed and then the air and oil mixture set so it's running as efficient as it can be.
Edited by Gingerbread Man on Wednesday 5th January 19:58
As above.
Too rich means it'll soot up quite quickly. Too lean and it'll overheat and may melt the steel baffles!
As far as soot goes it really should have the flue gas tested with a smoke pump which draws it through filter paper. It should be almost invisible... Between 0 and 1 on the Bacharach scale. If it isn't.. 'Walk On By'.*
*Sorry, that's terrible
Too rich means it'll soot up quite quickly. Too lean and it'll overheat and may melt the steel baffles!
As far as soot goes it really should have the flue gas tested with a smoke pump which draws it through filter paper. It should be almost invisible... Between 0 and 1 on the Bacharach scale. If it isn't.. 'Walk On By'.*
*Sorry, that's terrible
Thanks for that guys - I can only assume it's set up correctly. I hate the bloody thing and don't really trust it - perhaps because i'm not used to a combi or oil heating. Either way - i won't be using the company again.
Engineer 1 wrote on job sheet - new nossle fitted.
Engineer 2 wrote on job sheet - nossle assemble dirty. cleaned and adjusted. never mentioned a thing about a bloddy photocell - looks like 2 was covering for 1 to me. Either was never using them again. G/F has printed an Oftec complaint sheet.
The company we used commisioned the boiler - when we moved I got a company to give the boiler the once over. Told us the boiler was not complient with legislation. Apparently a different type of boiler should have been fitted and there was insufficient venting in the room. I questioned them - they came around with the seperate company that installed it and basically agreed they should not have commissioned the boiler due to the venting. Us, wanting an easy life just paid a company to drill a bloody great hole in the hole and get the proper venting in. Looking back I should have complained about them then and learned my bloody lesson with them.
Anyway - thanks again guys.
Engineer 1 wrote on job sheet - new nossle fitted.
Engineer 2 wrote on job sheet - nossle assemble dirty. cleaned and adjusted. never mentioned a thing about a bloddy photocell - looks like 2 was covering for 1 to me. Either was never using them again. G/F has printed an Oftec complaint sheet.
The company we used commisioned the boiler - when we moved I got a company to give the boiler the once over. Told us the boiler was not complient with legislation. Apparently a different type of boiler should have been fitted and there was insufficient venting in the room. I questioned them - they came around with the seperate company that installed it and basically agreed they should not have commissioned the boiler due to the venting. Us, wanting an easy life just paid a company to drill a bloody great hole in the hole and get the proper venting in. Looking back I should have complained about them then and learned my bloody lesson with them.
Anyway - thanks again guys.
Edited by Craphouserat on Wednesday 5th January 20:44
Seems to me you paid for a service, which should have included cleaning the photocell, but as it wasn't done a second engineer came out to do what the first engineer omitted. If I'm right, I don't see why you should pay any extra - the responsibility lies with first engineer.
Collecting the evidence:
What does the £210 bill say?
Does the 'service schedule' say the photoscell should be cleaned?
Collecting the evidence:
What does the £210 bill say?
Does the 'service schedule' say the photoscell should be cleaned?
zcacogp said:
I am guessing that the two engineers came from the same company?
If so, simply reply to the invoice with a polite letter explaining what you have explained in your post above. Make it clear that you don't think that you should be paying for visit #2, as it was only necessary as visit #1 wasn't done as it should have been.
You could add that you don't consider an apology for the inconvenience caused to you and your missis would be out of order either.
Be polite, clear and open. When they reply, let us know what they say.
Oli.
They were quire arsey with my G/F - she dealt with it quickly because she knows I may lose it with some people over the phone. They eventually put her on hold whilst supervisor was asked for. They eventually said we will take the call out charge off and all you have to pay for is the engineers time. So instead of over 200 it's around £103. They are sending out a credit note ( we get our oil through this company and pay a monthly charge, pay seperatly for service) I'm waiting for this to come through before deciding if I should even be paying this. The were adamant that this should be paid. They kept reiterating that both the person who took the call on the Sunday and the engineer kept saying this will be expensive - which they did - only because the bloody engineer couldnt be arsed getting in a cold van and traveling an hour up to us. You're told that if you call them out on a weekend you pay from when they get in the van until they get back home. We live in the middle of no-where, so to a certain extent I agree we should pay something - his petrol perhaps - but thats it. It was a 2 hour round trip from his to ours. G/F wants this to be the end - been a lot going on here lately and she doesn't want any arguements or hassle over £100 - but it's the principal ! I might end up paying the £100 odd for the engineers time but they will get this with a letter of complaint that will also be sent to OFtec. If so, simply reply to the invoice with a polite letter explaining what you have explained in your post above. Make it clear that you don't think that you should be paying for visit #2, as it was only necessary as visit #1 wasn't done as it should have been.
You could add that you don't consider an apology for the inconvenience caused to you and your missis would be out of order either.
Be polite, clear and open. When they reply, let us know what they say.
Oli.
Still fuming...but she wants this to be the end of it. Both a bit fed up of boiler talk !!
Thanks for all replies.
ETA - We will not be using this company again for servicing and are looking into sourcing Oil from elsewhere.
Edited by Craphouserat on Thursday 6th January 18:36
I don't think yopu should have to pay anything but that's only if it was the photocell that was the problem, only the 2nd engineer knows that for sure.
But if you/GF are sure then push/complain/don't pay.
I know you just want to forget about it but sometimes you have to stand up to these idiots.
We have a small-ish local company service our, the boss always comes out and always change the nozzle, does lots of fancy stuff with fancy looking machines.
One year something tripped in the boiler and he came out on Christmas Eve - was very sorry for not telling me how to re-set it before.
So I'd say your right in moving to a small local company.
Hope you get it sorted without anymore hassle.
But if you/GF are sure then push/complain/don't pay.
I know you just want to forget about it but sometimes you have to stand up to these idiots.
We have a small-ish local company service our, the boss always comes out and always change the nozzle, does lots of fancy stuff with fancy looking machines.
One year something tripped in the boiler and he came out on Christmas Eve - was very sorry for not telling me how to re-set it before.
So I'd say your right in moving to a small local company.
Hope you get it sorted without anymore hassle.
Ricky_M said:
Do you still have the Installation Instructions for the boiler?
If you do, there will be a servicing check list in there somewhere. If it stipulates the photocell must be cleaned on an annual service, send the company a copy and don't pay an extra penny.
No instructions - but previous owner left installation guide. No service guide in here. On the job sheets there is no box about for the photocell to cleaned - so I guess it's up to the engineer - i.e as he is servicing does it look like it needs cleaned? However, they are Oftec registered and they say on their website that boilers need regl;ar servicing - they explain why and they also specifically mention photocells. So overall I presume they should only change/clean the photocell if they feel it needs done. Engineer 2 said when questioned - its something I would do when servicing a boiler. Presumably Engineer 1 was a lazy twunt who didn'd care that to that person a boiler is one their most important possession's during the winter - I personally when working on something important like this, would take satisfaction knowing I'm helping people during a bad spell of weather and do the job properly. At the end of the day that 1 guy has lost buisness with us. I have spoken with neighbours and mentioned the hassle we've had with this company - who they also use, and have used for years - so they may lose other business. I will put my trust in a more local guy from now on and next time it's being serviced I will be there and specifically ask about the photocell !! They, along with Oftec, will be getting a letter of complaint and will also be told we will never use them again.If you do, there will be a servicing check list in there somewhere. If it stipulates the photocell must be cleaned on an annual service, send the company a copy and don't pay an extra penny.
Thanks for everyones replies and thoughts.
Cheers all.
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