D1 - Entitlement and teachers v DVLA
Discussion
Does anyone have an in-depth knowledge of the DVLA?
If you passed your test before 97 and have automatic D1 entitlement then you can drive a minibus as long as it is not for hire or reward. Fair enough.
They have now decided that as a teacher, if I drive the school minibus with kids in then I am no longer insured. Their reasoning being that as I am being paid as a teacher, then technically I am being paid to drive the bus, ergo in breach of D1.
If I was PE teacher or whatever, and was driving the kids to a football match I could understand this.
I run the Duke of Edinburgh scheme at school, and drive the bus outside of school hours. I get no financial reward for this, unlike some schools, but still their rules apply.
In a letter from the unions, they specifically mention extra-curricular activities.
If anyone knows anymore about this, or can provide a reasoned explanation, I would love to hear from you.
If you passed your test before 97 and have automatic D1 entitlement then you can drive a minibus as long as it is not for hire or reward. Fair enough.
They have now decided that as a teacher, if I drive the school minibus with kids in then I am no longer insured. Their reasoning being that as I am being paid as a teacher, then technically I am being paid to drive the bus, ergo in breach of D1.
If I was PE teacher or whatever, and was driving the kids to a football match I could understand this.
I run the Duke of Edinburgh scheme at school, and drive the bus outside of school hours. I get no financial reward for this, unlike some schools, but still their rules apply.
In a letter from the unions, they specifically mention extra-curricular activities.
If anyone knows anymore about this, or can provide a reasoned explanation, I would love to hear from you.
Not sure I understand the bit about not for hire or reward - I passed my test in 93 so have automatic D1 entitlement, and as an officer in the RAF Volunteer Reserve, working with the Air Cadets, I drive them about in military minibuses, which i'm guessing would work in the same way as the schools thing.
I hold a military driving licence, and take the cadets on various trips and DoE type things, while getting paid for it by the MOD, and have never had any problems....
Shouldn't your situation work in the same way?
I hold a military driving licence, and take the cadets on various trips and DoE type things, while getting paid for it by the MOD, and have never had any problems....
Shouldn't your situation work in the same way?
Reckon you need a lawyer to answer this.
My own thoughts aer that if, during the time you are actually in control of the vehicle, you are subject to "control, direction and supervision" or if someone (the education authority?) has the right to control, direct or supervise you under the terms of a formal contract of employment, then the driving of the vehicle forms a part of your work tasks. Thus you are being paid (i.e. rewarded)for this and would not be licenced or insured to drive the mini-bus. I do know that when I go out of my office on business in my car, although I am not employed as a driver, my car must be covered for use by 'the insured for journeys in connection with his/her employment or business'. Also, I cannot carry goods or samples in connection with my business unless specifically authorised and to do so would invalidate the insurance.
Of course, I could well be wrong.
My own thoughts aer that if, during the time you are actually in control of the vehicle, you are subject to "control, direction and supervision" or if someone (the education authority?) has the right to control, direct or supervise you under the terms of a formal contract of employment, then the driving of the vehicle forms a part of your work tasks. Thus you are being paid (i.e. rewarded)for this and would not be licenced or insured to drive the mini-bus. I do know that when I go out of my office on business in my car, although I am not employed as a driver, my car must be covered for use by 'the insured for journeys in connection with his/her employment or business'. Also, I cannot carry goods or samples in connection with my business unless specifically authorised and to do so would invalidate the insurance.
Of course, I could well be wrong.
That's what I would think.
But last week the union wrote to our rep at school, saying that the DVLA are now reading this differently.
I would have thought the same thing would now apply to you.
The unions say they are in negotiation/discussion with the DVLA, but that until they have definitive answer, we are not allowed to drive the minibuses.
But last week the union wrote to our rep at school, saying that the DVLA are now reading this differently.
I would have thought the same thing would now apply to you.
The unions say they are in negotiation/discussion with the DVLA, but that until they have definitive answer, we are not allowed to drive the minibuses.
Have you had a look at this at all:
www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/drvmbus.htm
The bit about Minibus and Community Bus Permits? Can you get hold of one of those through your LEA or anything?
www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/drvmbus.htm
The bit about Minibus and Community Bus Permits? Can you get hold of one of those through your LEA or anything?
fluffy said:
I run the Duke of Edinburgh scheme at school, and drive the bus outside of school hours. I get no financial reward for this, unlike some schools, but still their rules apply.
In a letter from the unions, they specifically mention extra-curricular activities.
:
Who pays the insurance ? The School.
If you were a parent who volenteed to drive would the schools insurance cover you ? (Given that a parent would need police checks carried out before they are allowed near any kids).
You are a Teacher, you are paid a salary, and the unpaid overtime you do (You are helping on the D of E cause the head mentioned promotion ?) and any risks you take mean that you are employed during this time.
If you fell from a crag whilst on the D of E you'd expect the LEA to pay up? You do risk assessments on school note paper for each trip ? YOU are employed !!!!!!
My advice ? Er on the side of caution !!!
jacko lah said:
Who pays the insurance ? The School.
If you were a parent who volenteed to drive would the schools insurance cover you ?
Yes & yes
jacko lah said:
You are a Teacher, you are paid a salary, and the unpaid overtime you do (You are helping on the D of E cause the head mentioned promotion ?) and any risks you take mean that you are employed during this time.
Not everyone does things for promotion.
jacko lah said:
If you fell from a crag whilst on the D of E you'd expect the LEA to pay up? You do risk assessments on school note paper for each trip ? YOU are employed !!!!!!
LEA insurance and vehicle insurance are two different things. The school is registered as a centre to deliver the DofE award. So is naturally covered by insurance.
But I don't get paid to drive a bus. The main point the DVLA are quibbling over is that whether or not the driving comes under the teacher's expected duties. This is not in my job description and is done on a voluntary basis.
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