countach service--clutch and brake pads
Discussion
my 88 1/2 countach which has done 29 ,000km is going in for a major service soon.
it is still running on its original clutch, and this appears to be fine.
in anticipation of the inevitable, i have been looking up clutch prices , and a complete kit appears to be about £5K (without fitting)
-is it possible / sensible to refurbish the existing clutch ?
-are there any sources for the O/E clutch kit other than lamborghini and eurospares in the UK ?
-any advice re make of replacement brake pads to try and improve the braking performance
is it true that EBC red brake pads makes a significant improvement ? ---anyone with direct experience of these pads cf the O/E pads
thank-you in anticipation for any advice that you may be able to give
it is still running on its original clutch, and this appears to be fine.
in anticipation of the inevitable, i have been looking up clutch prices , and a complete kit appears to be about £5K (without fitting)
-is it possible / sensible to refurbish the existing clutch ?
-are there any sources for the O/E clutch kit other than lamborghini and eurospares in the UK ?
-any advice re make of replacement brake pads to try and improve the braking performance
is it true that EBC red brake pads makes a significant improvement ? ---anyone with direct experience of these pads cf the O/E pads
thank-you in anticipation for any advice that you may be able to give
£5,000 gulp.
Yes, you can replace the friction material on a clutch. If you ever buy a clutch for a more mundance car and it's sold 'on exchange' (IE they want your old one back) then that's exactly what you've bought. I'm not sure if this is a wise idea considering a) the power in your engine and b) the presumably high labour charges you're going to pay to replace the clutch.
Re sourcing from elsewhere. When the clutch is removed, you could count he splines and measure the diameter of the plate and see if it corresponds to any other vehicles. I doubt there'd be many vehicles using a similar clutch plate and certainly it wouldn't be fitted to anything mundane which would offer you a significant cost saving.
Saying that, £5,000 is completely unjustifiable. I run a small haulage company and the industry standard for a clutch is 1,000,000kms and the cost of a three piece clutch kit would be around £750. This is for an engine with a torque output four or five times greater than your own and often used with zero mechanical sympathy.
Yes, you can replace the friction material on a clutch. If you ever buy a clutch for a more mundance car and it's sold 'on exchange' (IE they want your old one back) then that's exactly what you've bought. I'm not sure if this is a wise idea considering a) the power in your engine and b) the presumably high labour charges you're going to pay to replace the clutch.
Re sourcing from elsewhere. When the clutch is removed, you could count he splines and measure the diameter of the plate and see if it corresponds to any other vehicles. I doubt there'd be many vehicles using a similar clutch plate and certainly it wouldn't be fitted to anything mundane which would offer you a significant cost saving.
Saying that, £5,000 is completely unjustifiable. I run a small haulage company and the industry standard for a clutch is 1,000,000kms and the cost of a three piece clutch kit would be around £750. This is for an engine with a torque output four or five times greater than your own and often used with zero mechanical sympathy.
For what it's worth, I have experience of Redstuff pads, although not on a Countach but a Maserati Biturbo, and I thought they were fantastic!
I'm not saying they're the best in the world (as I've not tried every brand) but they offered much greater 'bite' even from cold and I thought they felt terrific through the pedal.
Also fade came much, much later and they released less dust than some other pads. From my experience of hard road use I would recommend them.
(And no, I don't work for EBC or sell EBC products!)
I'm not saying they're the best in the world (as I've not tried every brand) but they offered much greater 'bite' even from cold and I thought they felt terrific through the pedal.
Also fade came much, much later and they released less dust than some other pads. From my experience of hard road use I would recommend them.
(And no, I don't work for EBC or sell EBC products!)
MJK 24 said:
Saying that, £5,000 is completely unjustifiable. I run a small haulage company and the industry standard for a clutch is 1,000,000kms and the cost of a three piece clutch kit would be around £750. This is for an engine with a torque output four or five times greater than your own and often used with zero mechanical sympathy.
I'm sure HGV clutches are produced in far higher quantities than those which would be fitted to a Countach, though.Complex said:
MJK 24 said:
Saying that, £5,000 is completely unjustifiable. I run a small haulage company and the industry standard for a clutch is 1,000,000kms and the cost of a three piece clutch kit would be around £750. This is for an engine with a torque output four or five times greater than your own and often used with zero mechanical sympathy.
I'm sure HGV clutches are produced in far higher quantities than those which would be fitted to a Countach, though.Have you tried Terry Keyes at Silverstone for a price. He is ex Marenello Concessionaires, many years ago he started on his own as the man who would come and fit any Ferrari clutch at your home for 1/3 of the price. He now has workshops at Silverstone and is very reasonably priced.
Although he originated as a Ferrari specialist he does look after Lambos as well. He has also owned several Countach's himself and I believe that Boxers and Countach's are his favourites. He can be contacted on 01327 857368, give him a call he is very straight and you will know where you are at.
Although he originated as a Ferrari specialist he does look after Lambos as well. He has also owned several Countach's himself and I believe that Boxers and Countach's are his favourites. He can be contacted on 01327 857368, give him a call he is very straight and you will know where you are at.
The clutch kit comes with a balanced flywheel, friction plate and bearing. The flywheels can easily be cleaned up if not badly scored etc.
I Know that raymond of www.countach.ch has his refurbed. It is a sachs unit and I posted some pics of mine over on ferrari chat with numbers etc but uinderstnad they are only available through the factory so doenst matter who buys it ie eurpospares or a dealer.
If anyone knows who does clutch refurbs please post as I would like to get mine done. I understnad the risl is with the springs and how bad these are?? Ie if you put new friction material on the springs could still be weak
Personally I wouldnt change a clutch unless it is clearly slipping. I recall you have had that car some time so if it is long drives etc then the clutch should be fine for a while. I dont do wheelie starts etc in any car and usualy get a long life out of my clutches!
The newer units are a LOT lighter perhps 50% than the original factory units in operation
You still have my number so call if you want
Regards
Paul
I Know that raymond of www.countach.ch has his refurbed. It is a sachs unit and I posted some pics of mine over on ferrari chat with numbers etc but uinderstnad they are only available through the factory so doenst matter who buys it ie eurpospares or a dealer.
If anyone knows who does clutch refurbs please post as I would like to get mine done. I understnad the risl is with the springs and how bad these are?? Ie if you put new friction material on the springs could still be weak
Personally I wouldnt change a clutch unless it is clearly slipping. I recall you have had that car some time so if it is long drives etc then the clutch should be fine for a while. I dont do wheelie starts etc in any car and usualy get a long life out of my clutches!
The newer units are a LOT lighter perhps 50% than the original factory units in operation
You still have my number so call if you want
Regards
Paul
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=...
Is place on ferrari chat where was a discussion about the clutches and posted pic and details
xxx
Is place on ferrari chat where was a discussion about the clutches and posted pic and details
xxx
thank-you for all these replies
it is great , finally to be able to post rather than just read
interestingly, the clutch pedal presure on my car was the lightest of the 8 cars that i tried before buying, and has not really changed over the almost 11 years and 12,000km that i have owned it
equally, i am unable to identify a change in the biting point of the clutch , but surely this too must have altered through the inevitable wear and tear
i have read about a carbonfibre clutch for a countach on one of the american lambo websites , but have not heard of anyone with first hand experience
i am not sure that i would have the guts to try it when the time comes
paul, are you running o/e brake pads ?
i think that it was raymond who also suggested EBC RED pads , and it was good to hear that they made a significant improvement on the maserati
i will ask terry keys if he has an alternative source of clutches and will feed-back
it is great , finally to be able to post rather than just read
interestingly, the clutch pedal presure on my car was the lightest of the 8 cars that i tried before buying, and has not really changed over the almost 11 years and 12,000km that i have owned it
equally, i am unable to identify a change in the biting point of the clutch , but surely this too must have altered through the inevitable wear and tear
i have read about a carbonfibre clutch for a countach on one of the american lambo websites , but have not heard of anyone with first hand experience
i am not sure that i would have the guts to try it when the time comes
paul, are you running o/e brake pads ?
i think that it was raymond who also suggested EBC RED pads , and it was good to hear that they made a significant improvement on the maserati
i will ask terry keys if he has an alternative source of clutches and will feed-back
HI Path
yes am running standard pads. My own view is the best way to get them working is to take the car out and thrash it! The brakes do not inspire confidence and you need to push very hard. I am lucky that I am well built and fit so can exert a lot of push.
Main problem with the brakes is lack of use and they feel very crap after a winter lie up. A few laps of a track and 120+ braking sorts it out! lol
Let me know if others know of brake differences
I would ask Joe Sackey in the US about the carbon clutches
Paul
xx
yes am running standard pads. My own view is the best way to get them working is to take the car out and thrash it! The brakes do not inspire confidence and you need to push very hard. I am lucky that I am well built and fit so can exert a lot of push.
Main problem with the brakes is lack of use and they feel very crap after a winter lie up. A few laps of a track and 120+ braking sorts it out! lol
Let me know if others know of brake differences
I would ask Joe Sackey in the US about the carbon clutches
Paul
xx
Regarding brake pads: I have looked into this myself recently. My car has very low mileage so the oe pads still have plenty of meat, but I want to try and improve the brakes. I ended going for EBC Yellowstuff pads. Haven't fitted them yet so can't say what improvement there will be, if any. But when I was researching it the information I found was that the Yellowstuff pads have better initial bite from cold, and are designed as an upgrade. EBC rate the Redstuff as similar to oe and the Yellowstuff as upgrade for the Countach. Main benefit of Redstuff is very low dust, with Yellowstuff putting out similar dust as standard. I decided to go for braking improvement over dust levels.
Hi Path.
I think we spoke at goodwood about 3 years ago, is you car a red 88.5
I think we spoke at goodwood about 3 years ago, is you car a red 88.5
carspath said:
thank-you for all these replies
it is great , finally to be able to post rather than just read
interestingly, the clutch pedal presure on my car was the lightest of the 8 cars that i tried before buying, and has not really changed over the almost 11 years and 12,000km that i have owned it
equally, i am unable to identify a change in the biting point of the clutch , but surely this too must have altered through the inevitable wear and tear
i have read about a carbonfibre clutch for a countach on one of the american lambo websites , but have not heard of anyone with first hand experience
i am not sure that i would have the guts to try it when the time comes
paul, are you running o/e brake pads ?
i think that it was raymond who also suggested EBC RED pads , and it was good to hear that they made a significant improvement on the maserati
i will ask terry keys if he has an alternative source of clutches and will feed-back
it is great , finally to be able to post rather than just read
interestingly, the clutch pedal presure on my car was the lightest of the 8 cars that i tried before buying, and has not really changed over the almost 11 years and 12,000km that i have owned it
equally, i am unable to identify a change in the biting point of the clutch , but surely this too must have altered through the inevitable wear and tear
i have read about a carbonfibre clutch for a countach on one of the american lambo websites , but have not heard of anyone with first hand experience
i am not sure that i would have the guts to try it when the time comes
paul, are you running o/e brake pads ?
i think that it was raymond who also suggested EBC RED pads , and it was good to hear that they made a significant improvement on the maserati
i will ask terry keys if he has an alternative source of clutches and will feed-back
Rob at Grimaldi is a good guy, doesn't rip you off, and has serviced many Countach's. A Countach clutch including fitting at £1500. Recommended by me.
www.grimaldiengineering.co.uk
www.grimaldiengineering.co.uk
Edited by Martian O on Thursday 13th January 10:50
REDBULL--thanks for this info about the yellowstuff pads, which i was unaware of.
i would be really keen to hear how they perform---look forward to hearing from you about this.
were they difficult to source in the countach qv size(s)?
LG06--yes we met at goodwood sometime ago, and it is indeed the red 88 1/2 qv wit a tan interior
hope to see you again at some of the breakfast club events this year
GBC and the wilton house do are my favourites!!
really looking forward to both , after this long winter lay-off
unfortunately, work precludes attendance at the autosport nec show this week-end
MARTIAN O--- i've already been in touch with roberto and annabel at grimaldi , as well as colin clarke (recommended by paul qv), but it is always good to get an unsolicited recommendation. thanks.
i would be really keen to hear how they perform---look forward to hearing from you about this.
were they difficult to source in the countach qv size(s)?
LG06--yes we met at goodwood sometime ago, and it is indeed the red 88 1/2 qv wit a tan interior
hope to see you again at some of the breakfast club events this year
GBC and the wilton house do are my favourites!!
really looking forward to both , after this long winter lay-off
unfortunately, work precludes attendance at the autosport nec show this week-end
MARTIAN O--- i've already been in touch with roberto and annabel at grimaldi , as well as colin clarke (recommended by paul qv), but it is always good to get an unsolicited recommendation. thanks.
carspath: the pads were easy to source, I bought them on ebay for much less than other online suppliers. I just checked and they are still easily available for around £50 for an axle set. My car is an Anniversary which is different to all other models in that it uses the same pads front and rear. Yellowstuff part number DP4753R. According to fitment charts, the 88 1/2 would use these on the front and DP4104R on the rear.
Here's a link to some of the cheapest current ebay sellers:
85-89 rear pads DP4104R
85-89 front pads DP4753R
And here's a link to one of the sites showing Yellowstuff as an upgrade with Redstuff as oe quality. I have used your car as the info so the fitments are correct for you. Notice how much more expensive they are than the ebay sellers: EBC chart
It'll be a few months before I drive my car with the new pads fitted, and obviously they'll need to be bedded in, so unlikely I will be able to give feedback before you get yours done. I will post results though. I'm also hoping to redesign a part of the throttle linkage to improve the feel, putting fully synthetic oil in the transmission and diff, and using Motul premixed coolant. So I'll be posting about any improvements or otherwise from these changes.
Here's a link to some of the cheapest current ebay sellers:
85-89 rear pads DP4104R
85-89 front pads DP4753R
And here's a link to one of the sites showing Yellowstuff as an upgrade with Redstuff as oe quality. I have used your car as the info so the fitments are correct for you. Notice how much more expensive they are than the ebay sellers: EBC chart
It'll be a few months before I drive my car with the new pads fitted, and obviously they'll need to be bedded in, so unlikely I will be able to give feedback before you get yours done. I will post results though. I'm also hoping to redesign a part of the throttle linkage to improve the feel, putting fully synthetic oil in the transmission and diff, and using Motul premixed coolant. So I'll be posting about any improvements or otherwise from these changes.
Edited by RedBull on Friday 14th January 12:18
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