Lens advice - wide angle

[offshorematt2]

Hi folks

Bought a Canon 450D last year with the aim of learning to use it properly. Work load and kids however means I haven't really got past the auto focus, point and click stage yet (I know, I know ).

But I currently need some photos to market a rental flat and I've realised that rather than paying a pro again I'd be better off investing in the right lens (and I prefer to spend money on my own toys rather than fund someone else's...). The shots don't need to be especially complex, but my current lenses both give too narrow a field to take a picture that shows the flat to its advantage.

So the question is, can anyone recommend a lens that will allow me to take relatively wide angle shots of a room from a doorway without it looking distorted? I found this on Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/58mm-Wide-Angle-Lens-18-55..., which looks like it should screw onto my 18-55mm lens. At that price, I can afford to experiment but would I be better off buying a standalone lens? And if so, can you explain to me why?

Thanks for any help in advance!

[Dogsey]

I wouldn't have thought that adaptor would give very good quality images. Personally I'd look at taking a series of photos and then stitching them together to get the same effect, maybe 3 portrait photos stitched together at a time. The more expensive option is to buy something like the Sigma 10-20mm lens.

[andy-xr]

You'll get wide angle distortion, just will

Correct it in PS and/or stitch photos together. I'd have thought if the image quality of the kit lens is sufficient, just the stitching needs sorting and you're done

[itsnotarace]

Dogsey said:

The more expensive option is to buy something like the Sigma 10-20mm lens.

Or just rent one

http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/canon-ef-s-10-22mm-...

[tog]

offshorematt2 said:

rather than paying a pro again I'd be better off investing in the right lens

Well that depends what you're looking to end up with. I could spend money buying a load of tools and equipment, but I'd much rather pay the same to a plumber to fit my new shower.

[Speed addicted]

I've got the Sigma 10-20 wich is pretty wide. If you're taking shots of close things (like a room) at the wide end they'll end up with some distortion. They may also end up looking far bigger than they are!
Stitching may be the only option, but you'll need a tripod.

Edited by Speed addicted on Tuesday 11th January 17:58

[Kermit power]

tog said:

offshorematt2 said:

rather than paying a pro again I'd be better off investing in the right lens

Well that depends what you're looking to end up with. I could spend money buying a load of tools and equipment, but I'd much rather pay the same to a plumber to fit my new shower.

Hardly a direct comparison, is it?

[tog]

Kermit power said:

tog said:

offshorematt2 said:

rather than paying a pro again I'd be better off investing in the right lens

Well that depends what you're looking to end up with. I could spend money buying a load of tools and equipment, but I'd much rather pay the same to a plumber to fit my new shower.

Hardly a direct comparison, is it?

The principle is the same and he's already said he hasn't really worked out how to use the camera fully, so how would buying another lens change that? If he wants to learn how to use the kit he already has I'd be the first to encourage it, but to say "I'd be better off investing in the right lens" is false if he still doesn't know what to do with it. But as I said, it depends on the end result required in this case - if a wide angle of view all that's required this would possibly do the job; if a set of pictures taken to a professional standard is required, find a pro.

[Kermit power]

tog said:

Kermit power said:

tog said:

offshorematt2 said:

rather than paying a pro again I'd be better off investing in the right lens

Well that depends what you're looking to end up with. I could spend money buying a load of tools and equipment, but I'd much rather pay the same to a plumber to fit my new shower.

Hardly a direct comparison, is it?

The principle is the same and he's already said he hasn't really worked out how to use the camera fully, so how would buying another lens change that? If he wants to learn how to use the kit he already has I'd be the first to encourage it, but to say "I'd be better off investing in the right lens" is false if he still doesn't know what to do with it. But as I said, it depends on the end result required in this case - if a wide angle of view all that's required this would possibly do the job; if a set of pictures taken to a professional standard is required, find a pro.

Fair point. I'd assume the desired result is going to be somewhere in the middle if it's for a lettings website.

My thinking was that if you learn to fit a shower, you can fit showers, whereas if you learn to shoot with a wide angle lens, there are lots of things you can do with it.

[offshorematt2]

Thanks guys.

First of all, with regards the Amazon lens adapter, I appreciate that quality will not be ideal, but do you think it would be adequate for pretty low res website advertising? Or is it only 15quid to stop people bothering to complain about it after they've bought it?!

I see my suggestion of buying the right lens rather than paying the professionals was a bit controversial Love the shower comparison but unfortunately I'm of the opposite opinion! Nothing drives self learning like requirement! For background, I actually needed a new bathroom a couple of years ago, bought all the tools required and taught myself how. Ended up with an bathroom for £6k that had been quoted at £16k by the pro's. So while I may have been a bit lax in utilising the DSLR I have no concerns that I will get my money's worth in due course. In the last three years I have paid the same photograher over £400 to shoot property pics - I appreciate that he makes it look easy but really, what I need isn't particularly technical, and as I have several rental properties, I think it would make sense to be able to DIY. Oh, and I'm a sucker for new toys...ha ha

The comment that there will definitely be distortion in taking a photo of a room at that range confuses me though - surely the pro doesn't go photoshopping panoramas for that kind of job? Looking at the previous pics I have had done and a glance at the various property centres, they don't look shopped. I assume whatever the lens in use is sufficient to manage okay? For what its worth, I have just finished trying to stitch four portraits of a small room together and it looks a right dog's dinner... I guess my photoshop skills need more work too.

To summarise, if I can spend £350 on a lens that will save me £100 a hit whenever I need updated photos, I can justify it, even better as it also lets me play with better landscapes etc. I enjoy photography even if I'm not particularly proficient at the technical aspect. I think the Sigma 10-22mm will be getting investigated further...

Thanks for all input.


Edited for poor spelling and punctuation. Damn red wine!

Edited by offshorematt2 on Tuesday 11th January 23:28

[Dogsey]

Check out AutoStitch, it's the best I've found for the job and it's free.

[LongQ]

If you go wide enough angle and aim for one shot for a room (say) you will get distortion especially in smallish rooms. Might not be so obvious in a country house though ....

You can correct that with software but it's best to have some experience of what you need to do to get shots that will correct and still give you what you want. In effect if you 'fix' the distortion you will get an odd shaped image that you then need to crop. If you crop of course you may lose some of the detail you wanted to keep ... you really need to familiarise as youmight expect.

If you use multiple images and get the technique right you should be able to avoid the distortion issue but for stitching purposes you need to try and make all the frames consistent to get a good stitch result - ideally. So use a tripod or at least some sort of support that will give a consistent height for all the shots you stitch. Make sure the camera is in a vertical plane (unless you are prepared to try something fancy) and use manual settings so each shot is taken with the same values for aperture and focus. You may get away with aperture priority but there can be some inconsistencie from variable light sources. If using artificial lighting do some work with white balance. You should probably get away with your standard lens for that if the camera is used in the portrait orientation. A remote release will be useful - cost a few quid for something basically functional.

consider whether you need a flash unit. The on camera flash may not have enough spread and range to provide balanced results and that could make the stitching job more difficult later. If young wide angle I really doubt that the onboard flash would suit unless it is just filling in shadows from a roon well lit by other lights.

It could be that your property is relatively simple to shoot in any light, but it might not be. So if it's not working out as you expect the items above are worth considering. There are, in my opinion, certain differences to using wide angle lenses for landscapes, where a little curvature on straight lines can pass unnoticed, and for 'architectural' where curves that should be straight lines are more evident. Indoor shots that look distorted always make me assume that rooms are really rather small abd they are being present in wide angle to try to make them look more impressive than they are. But that's probably just me.

[Speed addicted]

Actually I've just checked your profile. If you can wait a week or so I'll let you have a shot of the 10-20 to see if it's what you need (I'm also near Aberdeen).
Edit: You've got to show me the Ferrari though, it's only fair!

Edited by Speed addicted on Wednesday 12th January 06:27

[tog]

offshorematt2 said:

Love the shower comparison but unfortunately I'm of the opposite opinion! Nothing drives self learning like requirement! For background, I actually needed a new bathroom a couple of years ago, bought all the tools required and taught myself how. Ended up with an bathroom for £6k that had been quoted at £16k by the pro's.

Excellent! You're braver than me!

[offshorematt2]

Just rooted through old boxes for the last couple of property schedules that had professional photos in them and now I'm looking specifically for it, I can now see the distortion that you are referring to. Funny that I never noticed it before but to be honest it is pretty negligible and definitely outweighed IMHO by the benefits of showing the whole room versus a a narrow portrait of half of it from the doorway...certainly doesn't put me off the use of the pictures. I get the point with making a small room look bigger, but as a landlord, that's kind of my intention!

Interesting comment that the inbuilt flash would be unsuitable for wide angle - something else to look into. The agent has already put the flat on the web with photos he took himself with a little pocket digital. Makes the flat look like a tiny dark hole when in reality it is a large bright space. I'll need to seriously start thinking whether it's worth getting the pro back in on this occasion and try my hand next time the requirement rises.

Speed Addicted - thanks for the very kind offer. I take it you are back onshore next week? I'm unfortunately office bound again after this week, but if you are available any time at the weekends, I would appreciate the chance of you showing me what is capable with the 10-22mm? Barring any more snow fall, I'll definitely need to get the Ferrari out Drop me an email when you're home and we can see what's what...

Edited by offshorematt2 on Wednesday 12th January 12:11

[Speed addicted]

Yup, back to reality (hopefully) a week tomorrow. Weekemds are no problem, I'll give you a shout when I get back.

[LongQ]

offshorematt2 said:

Just rooted through old boxes for the last couple of property schedules that had professional photos in them and now I'm looking specifically for it, I can now see the distortion that you are referring to. Funny that I never noticed it before but to be honest it is pretty negligible and definitely outweighed IMHO by the benefits of showing the whole room versus a a narrow portrait of half of it from the doorway...certainly doesn't put me off the use of the pictures. I get the point with making a small room look bigger, but as a landlord, that's kind of my intention!

Interesting comment that the inbuilt flash would be unsuitable for wide angle - something else to look into. The agent has already put the flat on the web with photos he took himself with a little pocket digital. Makes the flat look like a tiny dark hole when in reality it is a large bright space. I'll need to seriously start thinking whether it's worth getting the pro back in on this occasion and try my hand next time the requirement rises.

This may be of dual interest.

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2009/04/working-aroun...


The point you made about making rooms look bigger is fine of course but sometimes those shots just look so obviously distorted that, to me at least, it has a negative effect.

I had a longer post of comments related to the above but the computer locked up and I had to kill it off and lost it all. Will try and re-do it later.

[DiscoColin]

itsnotarace said:

Or just rent one

http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/canon-ef-s-10-22mm-...

Another alternative - buy a used one off of eBay, use it and if you don't think it is working out for you then sell it on again for roughly what you paid...

[LongQ]

I failed miserably with my promise to re-create a lost post = sorry.

But in the meantime, having decided I must do it now, I discovered this new post

http://pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&amp... Photography Advice


that, at least for the first few responses, makes the points I had included anyway plus some more interesting information.

So, that's saved me some time.

[offshorematt2]

Appreciate the follow up, thanks.