2.5 924/944 - Good car - Bad car?
Discussion
I'm soon to have the best part of £2k buring a hole through my wallet, and am pondering a 2.5 924(s?) or a 944.
Simple question... is this a good idea? is it likely to cost me the purchase price to run every year for the rest of my life? Checked insurance and it's ok (well, under £1k). I hear they cost more to run than the 2 litre 924, but how much?
...and all this bearing in mind that its companions on my shortlist are a Peugeot 205GTi and a Vauxhall Omega 3.0 V6 (covered all bases there i think).
Simple question... is this a good idea? is it likely to cost me the purchase price to run every year for the rest of my life? Checked insurance and it's ok (well, under £1k). I hear they cost more to run than the 2 litre 924, but how much?
...and all this bearing in mind that its companions on my shortlist are a Peugeot 205GTi and a Vauxhall Omega 3.0 V6 (covered all bases there i think).
Buy a 944, and then look to empty your wallet into it's mouth Yu-stylee 
Not because they're expensive to run, but because being a petrolhead with a porker means an incessant need to upgrade, to aggrandise verily...
I quite fancy a 944 myself, but then I'd have to turn it into a late 944 Turbo SE running 18s with a 968 rear light replacement and 968 Turbo adjustable rear spoiler and and and...
Nah. Just buy an Omega and you'd be too ashamed to waste and more money on it...
Fox
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Temporarily 964C2-less
Not because they're expensive to run, but because being a petrolhead with a porker means an incessant need to upgrade, to aggrandise verily...
I quite fancy a 944 myself, but then I'd have to turn it into a late 944 Turbo SE running 18s with a 968 rear light replacement and 968 Turbo adjustable rear spoiler and and and...
Nah. Just buy an Omega and you'd be too ashamed to waste and more money on it...
Fox
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Temporarily 964C2-less
How handy are you with the spanners?
They're old cars and will need regular work to keep tip top and keep the driving experience good. I bought a 2.5 944 for 3k last year and so far have changed the front suspension bushes, changed the shocks, fixed a leak on the power steering, adjusted the wheel bearings and refurbished the clutch master cylinder and bled the system. The things I have to do are fix a small oil leak from the main seal behind the clutch plate when I change the clutch (in the mean time keep topping up the oil) and put new valve stem seals in the head as it's a bit smokey on startup (and refurb the valves if required).
None of this is particularly expensive and none of this stuff is unique to 944s, I've had most of the above happen to other cars. The problem is that if you can't fix this stuff yourself (the parts are not as expensive as you'd imagine although not ford cheap) you will have to pay OPC or porsche independant hourly rates which will be more expensive than other garages.
Having said that the engine is simpler than the omegas by virtue of being a 4-cyl and the 205 will have a 50/50 chance of breaking down daily and peugeot garages are such a useful bunch of d*cks that it's by owning 2 205Gti that I learnt how to fix cars in the first place.
You will be able to avoid some of the more common problems by getting an inspection (always a good idea anyway) but you're always looking at garage rates unless you buy a new car or can fix it yourself. If you buy a car without an inspection, knowing nothing about cars you may as well just set fire to your money whatever you buy.
Mark
They're old cars and will need regular work to keep tip top and keep the driving experience good. I bought a 2.5 944 for 3k last year and so far have changed the front suspension bushes, changed the shocks, fixed a leak on the power steering, adjusted the wheel bearings and refurbished the clutch master cylinder and bled the system. The things I have to do are fix a small oil leak from the main seal behind the clutch plate when I change the clutch (in the mean time keep topping up the oil) and put new valve stem seals in the head as it's a bit smokey on startup (and refurb the valves if required).
None of this is particularly expensive and none of this stuff is unique to 944s, I've had most of the above happen to other cars. The problem is that if you can't fix this stuff yourself (the parts are not as expensive as you'd imagine although not ford cheap) you will have to pay OPC or porsche independant hourly rates which will be more expensive than other garages.
Having said that the engine is simpler than the omegas by virtue of being a 4-cyl and the 205 will have a 50/50 chance of breaking down daily and peugeot garages are such a useful bunch of d*cks that it's by owning 2 205Gti that I learnt how to fix cars in the first place.
You will be able to avoid some of the more common problems by getting an inspection (always a good idea anyway) but you're always looking at garage rates unless you buy a new car or can fix it yourself. If you buy a car without an inspection, knowing nothing about cars you may as well just set fire to your money whatever you buy.
Mark
Buy wisely and you shouldnt have to blow to much cash running one. I did'nt ! To make the thing drive well I had to replace (deep breath!), the steering rack, steering column/link thing, the ball joints, the dampers, the bearings, the tie rods and two buckled wheels !
To keep it running I had to replace the water pump, which means taking the cam belt off, so word of advice if the belts need changing get the pump done at the same time. (This job is not realy recomended for the diy mechanic as the cambelt needs tensioning with a good deal of accuracy.)
A 924s or 944 should feel "tight" if its been well looked after, slop through the steering or suspension is a bad sign.
I found that the biggest improvment I made to the handling of my car was fitting a reasonable sized rear anti roll bar. Originaly fitted with a 14 mm job I up graded to an 18mm one (only £50 from Porscha part). Sorted the rear end a treat !
Sorry if these thoughts are a bit random but I'm pretty enthusiastic about my 44, just wanted to share a few thoughts on the subject !
To keep it running I had to replace the water pump, which means taking the cam belt off, so word of advice if the belts need changing get the pump done at the same time. (This job is not realy recomended for the diy mechanic as the cambelt needs tensioning with a good deal of accuracy.)
A 924s or 944 should feel "tight" if its been well looked after, slop through the steering or suspension is a bad sign.
I found that the biggest improvment I made to the handling of my car was fitting a reasonable sized rear anti roll bar. Originaly fitted with a 14 mm job I up graded to an 18mm one (only £50 from Porscha part). Sorted the rear end a treat !
Sorry if these thoughts are a bit random but I'm pretty enthusiastic about my 44, just wanted to share a few thoughts on the subject !
Be careful. At that price you are looking towards the bottom of the heap for a 944. The reason is that at that price most people can afford to buy one, but if things start going wrong then the costs add up. so what does the person who could just afford to buy it do? He sells it, and the next person looking at a bargain basement comes along.
Test drive loads and then you will feel the difference between a money pit and a good car. Most will still look great when all shined up so bodywork 'should' not be an issue , but underneath that cheap Porsche is a whole load of Porsche parts, that could start costing ££££ to replace.
Test drive loads and then you will feel the difference between a money pit and a good car. Most will still look great when all shined up so bodywork 'should' not be an issue , but underneath that cheap Porsche is a whole load of Porsche parts, that could start costing ££££ to replace.
interloper said:What size is your front arb?
I found that the biggest improvment I made to the handling of my car was fitting a reasonable sized rear anti roll bar. Originaly fitted with a 14 mm job I up graded to an 18mm one (only £50 from Porscha part). Sorted the rear end a treat !
Mark
The front one is a 21mm diameter I think. From what I remember of car set up's, stiffen the front = under steer, stiffen the rear = over steer (Admitedly thats a bit over simplified statement but I'm sure you get my drift), hence I havent felt the need to touch the front arb.
The reason for my experimentation was that I had reasonable front end grip and wierd roll over steer behaviour from the rear. On track the back end would lean over and sort of grip, then slide, then grip. Didnt feel at all predictable. Now the back end slides in a much more prdictable and flat manner.
The reason for my experimentation was that I had reasonable front end grip and wierd roll over steer behaviour from the rear. On track the back end would lean over and sort of grip, then slide, then grip. Didnt feel at all predictable. Now the back end slides in a much more prdictable and flat manner.
interloper said:Yeah, mine does that on the road... feels weird doesn't it. When I sort out the rear bushes I'll look into upgrading the arb at the same time. I did all the front bushes a few months ago and have either a 21mm or 23mm on the front.
The front one is a 21mm diameter I think. From what I remember of car set up's, stiffen the front = under steer, stiffen the rear = over steer (Admitedly thats a bit over simplified statement but I'm sure you get my drift), hence I havent felt the need to touch the front arb.
The reason for my experimentation was that I had reasonable front end grip and wierd roll over steer behaviour from the rear. On track the back end would lean over and sort of grip, then slide, then grip. Didnt feel at all predictable. Now the back end slides in a much more prdictable and flat manner.
Thanks for the info.
Regards,
Mark
Actualy for simplicitys sake I've left out three bits of info. First is that my car runs Knoni yellow adjustables all round, TBH not sure what a car on good OE dampers feels like as my original dampers were in shocking condition ! Secondly I've had the rear end lowered skightly, the reason for this was it was sat up too high the car is now level. Thirdly my car sits on lower profile tyres than is recomended, lowering the gearing and again stiffening the ride.
I dont think the dampers make much difference, simply firm things up a little, and hopefully your 944 should sit level anyway with out the need to have the rear lowered.
It was definatley the ARB change that knocked the akward oversteer thing on the head and not any of the above mods.
I dont think the dampers make much difference, simply firm things up a little, and hopefully your 944 should sit level anyway with out the need to have the rear lowered.
It was definatley the ARB change that knocked the akward oversteer thing on the head and not any of the above mods.
buy the best you can, history and knowledge of seller more important than mileage, oval dash better looking and much better materials than older (82-5) and easier to upgrade to S2 spec. I have a 944S which I paid top money for but it's been brilliant. You're better off buying a tidy left hooker than a tarted up UK car for 2k.
They are fairly easy to work on...try and stretch to 3500 if you can...but don't get an Omega for God's sake, it's all wrong!
Incidentally 17" wheels transform the feel of the car (15 as standard for all bar S2s I think)
Adam
They are fairly easy to work on...try and stretch to 3500 if you can...but don't get an Omega for God's sake, it's all wrong!
Incidentally 17" wheels transform the feel of the car (15 as standard for all bar S2s I think)
Adam
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