Matching aluminium inlet manifold to Aluminium heads
Discussion
Hi Guys, I am about to match the manifold to the inlet ports on the heads, what are the best cutting tools to use for aluminium? Stones clog and a carbide burr is pretty course, is their something in between that can be used with a hand drill and flex coupling or a Dremel?
Thanks in advance,
G
Thanks in advance,
G
Edited by VetteG on Wednesday 19th January 19:31
I would strongly recommend that you try to make moulds of the existing ports on both inlet manifold and the head to make sure you know where to remove material but also where to add - e.g. with devcon epoxy. Matching is only a small fraction of the story, the remainder is creating an airflow path that is optimised to deliver the desired result.
If the positioning of the intake manifold is not tightly controlled by studs (rather than just bolt holes) a perfectly matched joint will actually flow LESS air if not perfectly aligned. Most production manifolds have a size tollerance that ensures what ever the missalighment between head and intake runner, the larger manifold size means any step is always the righ way around (i.e. manifold port is smaller than head port)
VetteG said:
Hi Guys, I am about to match the manifold to the inlet ports on the heads
Ummmmmm, why? What do you think this is going to achieve? Huge gobs of extra horsepower? Sorry to burst your bubble but it will achieve absolutely nothing other than give you the opportunity to cock something up.Getting additional airflow means modifying parts of the port and manifold you can't possibly reach without proper equipment and vast amounts of knowledge as to how to do this properly, plus ideally a flowbench, which clearly you don't have.
Leave it alone.
Pumaracing said:
Ummmmmm, why? What do you think this is going to achieve? Huge gobs of extra horsepower? Sorry to burst your bubble but it will achieve absolutely nothing other than give you the opportunity to cock something up.
No I dont think this is going to achieve "huge gobs of horsepower" but what it will do is increase the efficiency. What I am doing is matching the inlet ports to the cylinder head ports, I am not porting the manifold or indeed the heads.Pumaracing said:
Getting additional airflow means modifying parts of the port and manifold you can't possibly reach without proper equipment and vast amounts of knowledge as to how to do this properly, plus ideally a flowbench, which clearly you don't have.
Do you know me? Clearly not and no I dont have a flow bench, but what I do have is significant experience in building competition engines and indeed cars. My question relates to what is the best current tool for achieving what I want since I havent worked on alloy heads manifolds for some 20 years. Finally can I say that your arrogance does you little credit.G
Leave it alone.
No it won't improve the efficiency of anything. Either the ports and manifold are too small in which case they need serious surgery or they aren't and your ministrations won't improve them.
Airflow doesn't give a rat's arse if it goes from a small pipe to a larger one. It just doesn't like hitting a step the other way round. Matching something to something else just in the last few mm where they join achieves NOTHING. In fact in the case of exhausts it makes things worse because ideally the exhaust port wants to be smaller than the exhaust manifold to prevent reverse flow.
BTW, it ain't arrogance - it's knowledge. More of it than you could possibly appreciate.
Airflow doesn't give a rat's arse if it goes from a small pipe to a larger one. It just doesn't like hitting a step the other way round. Matching something to something else just in the last few mm where they join achieves NOTHING. In fact in the case of exhausts it makes things worse because ideally the exhaust port wants to be smaller than the exhaust manifold to prevent reverse flow.
BTW, it ain't arrogance - it's knowledge. More of it than you could possibly appreciate.
My guess is that the op is matching the inlet manifold on a v engine, which is good practise in my book as there can often be a step against airflow caused by missalignment of the manifold.
Anyway back to the question, I find a carbide burr ok if used at high enough speed (so a Dremel type or air drill is best), I then finish off with those abrasive cylinders that fit over a rubber hub on a spindle, changing them often as they clog.
Anyway back to the question, I find a carbide burr ok if used at high enough speed (so a Dremel type or air drill is best), I then finish off with those abrasive cylinders that fit over a rubber hub on a spindle, changing them often as they clog.
Pumaracing said:
No it won't improve the efficiency of anything. Either the ports and manifold are too small in which case they need serious surgery or they aren't and your ministrations won't improve them.
Airflow doesn't give a rat's arse if it goes from a small pipe to a larger one. It just doesn't like hitting a step the other way round. Matching something to something else just in the last few mm where they join achieves NOTHING. In fact in the case of exhausts it makes things worse because ideally the exhaust port wants to be smaller than the exhaust manifold to prevent reverse flow.
BTW, it ain't arrogance - it's knowledge. More of it than you could possibly appreciate.
Actually it does come across as arrogance not knowledge. If it were knowledge or even anything constructive or helpfull you would first be asking what type of engine this was as this is a massive factor.Airflow doesn't give a rat's arse if it goes from a small pipe to a larger one. It just doesn't like hitting a step the other way round. Matching something to something else just in the last few mm where they join achieves NOTHING. In fact in the case of exhausts it makes things worse because ideally the exhaust port wants to be smaller than the exhaust manifold to prevent reverse flow.
BTW, it ain't arrogance - it's knowledge. More of it than you could possibly appreciate.
Due to your ignorance you failed to realise that this was a SBC V8 and specifically the inlet manifold being talked about not the exhaust manifold like your post relates too. This does need port matching, the fuel air mixture (not just air!) does need a smooth path flow! with a slight abrassion to the surface to aid fuel atomisation. If it were the exhaust manifold we were talking about your post would be almost correct however it is not!
Im confused as to your "knowledge" to advise as such, do you have experience with SBC or V engines? Do you build competition engines? Just curious as the likes of David Vizzard who was a whole lot of experience on a flow bench (apparently he sleeps with it) and with the SBC advices this, so does edelbrock and so did chevy in the LT4 engines. So just how does your "knowledge" compare to these greats?
Edited by mattius on Thursday 20th January 16:08
In fact actually looking at your own website, for a specific engine you actually endorse port matching!
"Note that the Mangoletsi DCOE inlet manifold, which is the most commonly available one, needs an awful lot of work to match its ports up with those of the cylinder head. As cast it only has tiny holes through the runners which are very restrictive....
copyright of David Baker and Puma Race Engines"
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/PUG2058V.htm
Hmmm! So without knowing the engine you flame for port matching then yourself advice people to do it to their engines.
Your advice on your webpage is correct, your attitude and advice in this thread stink! and you need to show a little more respect to others.
Its been 20years since he won his last hillclimb championship so its quite understandable my father (VetteG) would ask if there is a more modern technique to do something, the last thing he deserves is a condescending so called "knowledgable" person attempting to flame him.
"Note that the Mangoletsi DCOE inlet manifold, which is the most commonly available one, needs an awful lot of work to match its ports up with those of the cylinder head. As cast it only has tiny holes through the runners which are very restrictive....
copyright of David Baker and Puma Race Engines"
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/PUG2058V.htm
Hmmm! So without knowing the engine you flame for port matching then yourself advice people to do it to their engines.
Your advice on your webpage is correct, your attitude and advice in this thread stink! and you need to show a little more respect to others.
Its been 20years since he won his last hillclimb championship so its quite understandable my father (VetteG) would ask if there is a more modern technique to do something, the last thing he deserves is a condescending so called "knowledgable" person attempting to flame him.
Edited by mattius on Thursday 20th January 16:07
OMG, I'm so sorry. If I'd known it was your daddy I'd have been nicer. OK so I don't generally give a rat's arse about anyone else's daddy but YOUR daddy - well that's another matter altogether.
PS,
1) it was a bit bleedin' obvious it's a V8 from the posting name and the profile!
2) If the manifold was overlapping the inlet port (which it would be worth fixing) then it would be a matter of matching the port to the manifold and not vice versa.
3) Yes clearly it's the inlet port given the huge clues in both the title and the text of the question. I was merely pointing out for the further enlightenment of the masses that unlike inlets it's actually not just a waste of time doing this to exhaust ports but actually detrimental.
PS,
1) it was a bit bleedin' obvious it's a V8 from the posting name and the profile!
2) If the manifold was overlapping the inlet port (which it would be worth fixing) then it would be a matter of matching the port to the manifold and not vice versa.
3) Yes clearly it's the inlet port given the huge clues in both the title and the text of the question. I was merely pointing out for the further enlightenment of the masses that unlike inlets it's actually not just a waste of time doing this to exhaust ports but actually detrimental.
You dont give a rats arse to much do you. Im merely pointing out he is more than capable of having more knowledge than you in the subject. What race experience do you have to justify the name?
You still havent clarified just where or what this knoledge you supposably have is in, except for peugeot and puma engines i fail to see your relevant knowledge in anything american v8 related.
If it was obvious it was inlets why bloody bother to mention about the exhaust porting except to try and pruport that you have something vaguely relevant to input. Yes we already know about exhaust port reversion which is what you were trying to explain.
It was a pretty simple question that was originally asked not how to port match, not how to improve horsepower. Instead the armchair engineer with the overactive ego jumps in.
If you have a tool to suggest do it, if not bugger off.
You still havent clarified just where or what this knoledge you supposably have is in, except for peugeot and puma engines i fail to see your relevant knowledge in anything american v8 related.
If it was obvious it was inlets why bloody bother to mention about the exhaust porting except to try and pruport that you have something vaguely relevant to input. Yes we already know about exhaust port reversion which is what you were trying to explain.
It was a pretty simple question that was originally asked not how to port match, not how to improve horsepower. Instead the armchair engineer with the overactive ego jumps in.
If you have a tool to suggest do it, if not bugger off.
mattius said:
Im confused as to your "knowledge" to advise as such, do you have experience with SBC or V engines? Do you build competition engines? Just curious as the likes of David Vizzard who was a whole lot of experience on a flow bench (apparently he sleeps with it) and with the SBC advices this, so does edelbrock and so did chevy in the LT4 engines. So just how does your "knowledge" compare to these greats?
That's Vizard btw. One Z.And Dave does NOT sleep with his flowbench. He sleeps with his wife Jacqueline. Leastways that was still the case when we were chatting about camshaft lobe centreline theory last week in preparation for a lecture he's giving soon.
BTW, as you apparently revere Dave Vizard, and why not, it's a shame you missed out on the opportunity to interact 1 2 1 with him on the Gofastnews.com forums which he left a couple of years ago.
If you want to know about flowbenches you can build your own. I describe how in this thread.
http://www.gofastnews.com/showthread.php/1068-DIY-...
I used to post on there under the name Flowspecialist and DV used to post as DavidVizard. You can find all our threads with the search facility no doubt. However I think all of his original posts have been removed for copyright reasons since he left. You can still find mine though.
"Old baldy" or "the aged and balding scribe" as I used to refer to him had loads of good info to impart but the forum never really worked out. Not enough members to make the advertising pay.
If you want to know about flowbenches you can build your own. I describe how in this thread.
http://www.gofastnews.com/showthread.php/1068-DIY-...
I used to post on there under the name Flowspecialist and DV used to post as DavidVizard. You can find all our threads with the search facility no doubt. However I think all of his original posts have been removed for copyright reasons since he left. You can still find mine though.
"Old baldy" or "the aged and balding scribe" as I used to refer to him had loads of good info to impart but the forum never really worked out. Not enough members to make the advertising pay.
Max_Torque said:
Hello, i'd like to have an Argument please.............. ;-)
Well you can just f**k right off then because I don't want to have an argument with you. Silly walk right out of here, slap someone with a fish, put on a bra and pants and cut some trees down and just get on with your life.Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff