Are Council overtime cutbacks causing accidents?
Discussion
Several really bad accidents on the major A road I use this morning, clearly hadn't been gritted even though the temperature was well below freezing. Results this morning were several acidents, all major, one needing Air ambulance, many other ambulance and emergency services. God knows the monetary cost, let alone the injuries etc.
The roads at the scenes were like skating rinks. However, only a matter of a couple of miles before, the roads were safe.
Now I've noticed that the gritting lorries seem to be absent on local roads this year, and it seems that the MET office has to issue severe weather warnings for the gritters to appear. From my lounge window I used to see several gritting lorries a night doing our local A road, this year they seem to be much fewer and farther between.
So is overtime cutbacks by councils the cause? As far as I'm aware, local road gritting is down to local councils, I haven't seen any cuts in what we pay in council tax etc. So is some desk bound council manager making decisions to reduce gritting that are costing the other services real money to attend those accidents?
The roads at the scenes were like skating rinks. However, only a matter of a couple of miles before, the roads were safe.
Now I've noticed that the gritting lorries seem to be absent on local roads this year, and it seems that the MET office has to issue severe weather warnings for the gritters to appear. From my lounge window I used to see several gritting lorries a night doing our local A road, this year they seem to be much fewer and farther between.
So is overtime cutbacks by councils the cause? As far as I'm aware, local road gritting is down to local councils, I haven't seen any cuts in what we pay in council tax etc. So is some desk bound council manager making decisions to reduce gritting that are costing the other services real money to attend those accidents?
We are near Glasgow, and there was much crowing on the East Dunbartonshire Council website about how prepared for winter they were.
When there was a heavy snowfall 1/3 of the staff didn't turn up for 3 days, including people living less than 1/2 a mile from their workplace. They all got full pay though........
We had been told there was loads of salt, and the public could help by collecting some from the Council Depot for local gritting.
Cue a fight over a small pile which would hardly have covered 1 driveway.
And to cap it all, now that everything has melted, it looks as if either sand only, or a sand and salt mix has been used, leading to filthy pavements and blocked drains.
However, I am of the opinion that people don't drive with regard to the risk of icing, and last night I parked outside my daughters, came back out 15 minutes later and the car had frozen solid.
No council will be able to deal with that on every street, it really is up to the driver to be aware of conditions and drive appropriately.
When there was a heavy snowfall 1/3 of the staff didn't turn up for 3 days, including people living less than 1/2 a mile from their workplace. They all got full pay though........
We had been told there was loads of salt, and the public could help by collecting some from the Council Depot for local gritting.
Cue a fight over a small pile which would hardly have covered 1 driveway.
And to cap it all, now that everything has melted, it looks as if either sand only, or a sand and salt mix has been used, leading to filthy pavements and blocked drains.
However, I am of the opinion that people don't drive with regard to the risk of icing, and last night I parked outside my daughters, came back out 15 minutes later and the car had frozen solid.
No council will be able to deal with that on every street, it really is up to the driver to be aware of conditions and drive appropriately.
Du1point8 said:
Or hows about drivers dont know how to drive to the road conditions and its those people that are causing the accidents that are costing the emergency services money?
Why does everything that happens now have to be pointed back to the coalition and its cuts on the public sector?
Because "they" have been that naive to cut budgets but not regulate what is being cut in their name! Nimrod/coastguard stations/Harriers all big name items that reflect badly on them never mind the local ones.Why does everything that happens now have to be pointed back to the coalition and its cuts on the public sector?
Anyway back on topic, sections of roads at differing levels of salting, pretty lethal wouldn't you say?
ewenm said:
The drivers are causing the accidents.
The council not gritting may be contributory but, assuming some drivers manage to use the slippery bit of road without incident, then it's hard to see that it's the council's fault.
Yes. The council not gritting may be contributory but, assuming some drivers manage to use the slippery bit of road without incident, then it's hard to see that it's the council's fault.
But if the road has a section that has been subjected to a different level of treatment, a 2.4 mile stretch of basically straight DC between two flyovers, whilst the rest of the road has been salted to a level that prevents icing.......2.4 miles 10 accidents.....
incidentally Mrs Mojo drove through that section at 0650 and did not have any problems, but the vehicle does have tyres that are designed for winter road conditions......
gtdc said:
Mojocvh said:
Anyway back on topic, sections of roads at differing levels of salting, pretty lethal wouldn't you say?
No alternative. You turn off a well used route onto a country lane, no way will that be gritted. You drive with that in mind.
ewenm said:
gtdc said:
Mojocvh said:
Anyway back on topic, sections of roads at differing levels of salting, pretty lethal wouldn't you say?
No alternative. .And it is as obvious as the nose on your face.
You drive along a dual and come upon a 2.4 mile stretch where the road looks to all intents "wet" but it is black ice instead of brine, it isn't obvious at all until you get on it and the tyre noise drops off...
Mojocvh said:
ewenm said:
The drivers are causing the accidents.
The council not gritting may be contributory but, assuming some drivers manage to use the slippery bit of road without incident, then it's hard to see that it's the council's fault.
Yes. The council not gritting may be contributory but, assuming some drivers manage to use the slippery bit of road without incident, then it's hard to see that it's the council's fault.
But if the road has a section that has been subjected to a different level of treatment, a 2.4 mile stretch of basically straight DC between two flyovers, whilst the rest of the road has been salted to a level that prevents icing.......2.4 miles 10 accidents.....
incidentally Mrs Mojo drove through that section at 0650 and did not have any problems, but the vehicle does have tyres that are designed for winter road conditions......
Classic moment there.
The great unwashed, praetorial about public spending while uninformed yet bringing up a little bile, urging "so when are the public sector having their recession then eh"
Fast forward a few months and various areas of underfunded and understaffed services are made to run on a skeleton crew with even less money. So the public get their wish, I mean non of these cut backs to the public service sector could possibly mean a reduction in service for the public 'shock-f
king-horror!' But there we go, in relative terms a few pennies in the pot have been saved to the detriment of some services offered, but they are still not happy;
"So why has the level of service dropped and why all the roads not being gritted, I pay council tax you know"
Giving credence to my belief that 90% of joe public do not know what they want and are a little bit dim.
The great unwashed, praetorial about public spending while uninformed yet bringing up a little bile, urging "so when are the public sector having their recession then eh"
Fast forward a few months and various areas of underfunded and understaffed services are made to run on a skeleton crew with even less money. So the public get their wish, I mean non of these cut backs to the public service sector could possibly mean a reduction in service for the public 'shock-f
king-horror!' But there we go, in relative terms a few pennies in the pot have been saved to the detriment of some services offered, but they are still not happy;"So why has the level of service dropped and why all the roads not being gritted, I pay council tax you know"
Giving credence to my belief that 90% of joe public do not know what they want and are a little bit dim.
DrTre said:
While everyone has a personal responsibilty to ensure their own safety, I can't see as being anything other than a perfectly valid question.
We pay via taxes for services, it's not like they're free. If those services aren't up to scratch then it's fair to ask questions/complain.
"Are Council overtime cutbacks causing accidents?" - No, drivers not driving to the conditions causes accidents.We pay via taxes for services, it's not like they're free. If those services aren't up to scratch then it's fair to ask questions/complain.
"Is inconsistent salting contributing to accidents?" - Yes it is.
"Could drivers do more to help themselves?" - Yes they could, at a cost (time and/or money).
"Could the council do more to help drivers?" - Yes they could, at a cost (money).
ewenm said:
"Are Council overtime cutbacks causing accidents?" - No, drivers not driving to the conditions causes accidents.
"Is inconsistent salting contributing to accidents?" - Yes it is.
"Could drivers do more to help themselves?" - Yes they could, at a cost (time and/or money).
"Could the council do more to help drivers?" - Yes they could, at a cost (money).
So, like I said a shared responsibility...doesn't preclude the asking of the questions does it...particularly the latter one, which is just the first question from a different angle?"Is inconsistent salting contributing to accidents?" - Yes it is.
"Could drivers do more to help themselves?" - Yes they could, at a cost (time and/or money).
"Could the council do more to help drivers?" - Yes they could, at a cost (money).
RV8 said:
Giving credence to my belief that 90% of joe public do not know what they want and are a little bit dim.
I must be in the other 10% then, I know exactly what I want: an efficient local and national government. Having worked in both I know that wish is simply pissing in the wind.ewenm said:
Mojocvh said:
ewenm said:
The drivers are causing the accidents.
The council not gritting may be contributory but, assuming some drivers manage to use the slippery bit of road without incident, then it's hard to see that it's the council's fault.
Yes. The council not gritting may be contributory but, assuming some drivers manage to use the slippery bit of road without incident, then it's hard to see that it's the council's fault.
But if the road has a section that has been subjected to a different level of treatment, a 2.4 mile stretch of basically straight DC between two flyovers, whilst the rest of the road has been salted to a level that prevents icing.......2.4 miles 10 accidents.....
incidentally Mrs Mojo drove through that section at 0650 and did not have any problems, but the vehicle does have tyres that are designed for winter road conditions......
"Should your council tax be spent catering for those that don't do the same"
Don't start me on the council tax pleaseee!
gtdc said:
Mojocvh said:
Anyway back on topic, sections of roads at differing levels of salting, pretty lethal wouldn't you say?
No alternative. You turn off a well used route onto a country lane, no way will that be gritted. You drive with that in mind.I was stopped on the road as the Ambulance was pulling away from the scene of accident 2. There was no traction at this point, it was like driving in the snow a few weeks ago. The traction control did its nut. There had been no sign of bad traction just 200 yards before.
There were 4 destroyed cars in Accident 1. Four ambulances were used, and one air ambulance.
Accident 2 was just one car, but 2 occupants needing ambulances.
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