Life direction?
Author
Discussion

DannyDaunt

Original Poster:

2 posts

187 months

Thursday 20th January 2011
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Hi Guys,
Long time lurker, virgin of a poster.

Looking for some unbiased opinions.

I am 24 years old, stuck in a dead-end job with little to no prospects. My work ethic is really good: I put 110% into anything I do. It's a shame I've not lived by this my whole life. I work 9-5 mon-fri, and study 7-10:30PM 4-7 nights per week. I mainly study Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, as I enjoy doing so. I have also dabbled into the likes of History and Geography.

I do not know what direction to take my life. I feel I have 2 options:

Option A:
Continue as I am, whilst applying for better jobs. I feel that if I continue to work hard, educate myself, both in the aforementioned subjects, and in whatever field I end up in, I will greatly increase the chance of promotions and work my way up the ladder. However, I can only ever see this leading to a Management role in a small-med sized company; I'd like to be working at a leading company!

Option B:
Focus my studies, and attempt to get into a top university, to study mathematics/a mathematical related subject. I’d probably be around 31 years old when I graduate, but this option opens a lot of doors and who knows where it may take me- if anywhere! I’d consider this option to be riskier, as if I didn’t make it into a top university, I would arguably be no better off than where I am now, although 7 years older! ( Although the increased education would probably somehow benefit me in some way in the future). Chance of securing a job at a ‘good’ company increases, but at the expense of my youth!

I have no doubt that both options would serve me well, however for the last 6 months I have been living by the phrase “be great or be nothing”. I think what I am trying to say is that it might be difficult to “be great” with option A, the more I read it, the more it screams to me “be average”. That’s not to say option B is guaranteed to lead me to a better life, but it may open some doors, make me a competitive applicant for better jobs, research positions, etc etc.

Option B means I’d potentially lose 7 years of earnings, however, I’d have a higher chance of achieving a better job with better prospects. Option A I could start right now and attempt to work my way to them top, at the risk of ending up with an average career.

I would be most grateful of your opinion.
Thank you for your time,
Danny D.


StevieBee

15,163 posts

283 months

Thursday 20th January 2011
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Danny,

I'm 20 years ahead of you and recognise a lot in what you say.

You sound a smart, clever bloke and it's probably not so much that the job you are in being dead-end or no prospects that's the problem, more that it doesn't really challenge you. That's where I was at your age. Didn't do the university thing but did sign up to do a marketing diploma - two evenings a week for three years. Loved it! Would have gone on to do a Masters but money and time then just wasn't there.

24 is bd age. You're neither kid nor grown up (same at 44 to be honest, you just learn to live with inevitable) and feel that you should be going somewhere but frustrated that you are not. What I can tell you is that from 25 to around 35 is probably the biggest transition period you go through in life, although you don't spot it at the time. It's the period you'll most likely meet your wife and have your first kid, maybe a second and in ten years from now, you'll look from your corner office window and suddenly think "where the hell did that all come from - last thing I remember was posting on a car forum about what I should do with my life"

If it was me, I'd avoid the university route. Do a part-time, post grad course, keep applying for those jobs - you sound too smart not to get something, may take a while but you will get there - and just ride the wave. I know that there are many that say you must plan and consider options and whatever but I've done that and always found it to bear no resemblance to what I did, do or am likely to do. Learn to "feel" what's right.

The "be good or be nothing" mantra is very worthy but don't pay too much heed to this. We can't all be great at everything, trying to be so just dampens the spirit when you fail. There are some things that I am truly brilliant at but others, I am not - and really should be and if I tried, I could be. But to be honest, I can't be arsed and in the scheme of things, it doesn't actually matter. Again, the trick is knowing what does and doesn't matter.

Long winded way of saying: Just do what you feel is right.

Whatever you do, you'll do alright. You can tell in the way to write!


shirt

25,299 posts

229 months

Friday 21st January 2011
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'be great or nothing' sounds like something stuart 'the brand' baggs would say. life isn't that simple, luck has as much a part to play as a hard work ethic and intelligence. at 24, life probably hasn't thrown that much at you to have realised this.

fair play for studying and working though, i can imagine keeping motivated is difficult so good luck with your exams etc.

can i ask why you'd want to study maths? what doors do you think would open that are closed to you now and what area of work do you want to go into on graduation? spending all that time and money to go into an unrelated field would be a waste.

lastly, there is no reason why a small/medium company cannot be a leading one. the roles in a small company are also more challenging/satisfying due to you having to wear more than one 'hat' and the chance of reaching the top of the hierarchy is naturally higher. it is very easy to feel lost and frustrated when working in a leading multinational, which is precisely why i left.

Nick M

3,632 posts

251 months

Friday 21st January 2011
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I'll try to avoid getting too philosophical here, but based on where I am now and the things I've done in the past, whatever you do make sure it's something that makes you happy.

There is much, much more to 'life' than jobs. If anything they actively get in the way, particularly if you're doing something that you don't enjoy.

What makes you tick? What do you get animated about? What do you think, or know, you're good at?

On the one hand jobs can put you in a position to be able to afford to do things you want to do, on the other they prevent you from doing them because you can't ever seem to *quite* find the time or *quite* afford what you want to do.

If I could go back and, knowing what I now know about myself, have my time again I'd consider something radically different, like engineering. At the time I left school I had no clue what I wanted to do, and now I'm doing something I know how to do with my eyes shut, and do it reasonably well, but which leaves me cold in terms of any enjoyment I might get from it.

So, have a think about what you want to do with your life, then have a think about what's *really* important to you, and see if that helps you to consider a particular job or career that excites you, or whether you just want to find a job that pays the bills but leaves you enough time / cash to go and do stuff that really makes life fun.

matt28

147 posts

233 months

Friday 21st January 2011
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Hi,

You mention you could focus on your studies and get into a uni, but would take 7 years?

It's 3 years for a degree and a further year for a masters. Even an MBA after that adds up to 5 years. What were you looking to study for 7 years?

If I were you I'd study for a distance learning degree while working. No sense in losing 3-4 years (or 7) of income, racking up debt (I assume you have living expenses plus course tuition), and ending up 27/28/31 years old and in the job market competing with thousands of 21 year olds who will work for a fairly low salary.

Better to advance your career while learning part-time. It will be a hard slog, but you'll come out with money, a degree, and more importantly real work experience hopefully in the right direction.

That said, it depends what you want to do. Clearly if you want to be a doctor, accountant, etc, you'll need the degree as there are barriers to entry. If you want to excel in things like sales, marketing, etc, you could do that without a degree if you're good enough at it.

herbialfa

1,489 posts

230 months

Friday 21st January 2011
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YOUR NOT HERE FOR A LONG TIME SO MAKE SURE ITS A GOOD TIME!!!!

sploosh

822 posts

236 months

Friday 21st January 2011
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IMHO experience is more important that qualifications... and a good employer will support you to get qualifications in the job.

If you don't have financial ties at the moment look for jobs in the area / sector that you want to be working in but don't worry too much about the level you go in at, if you put in the effort you'll get noticed.

At at 24 enjoy things a bit more! Should still be able to get a camping pass for Le Mans.


Dangerous2

11,327 posts

220 months

Saturday 22nd January 2011
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you mentioned research in mathematics - are you interested in becoming a researcher/scientist, hence the need to go to university?

DJC

23,563 posts

264 months

Saturday 22nd January 2011
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What are you actually qualified in, what is your experience?

cymtriks

4,561 posts

273 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
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Get yourself to an adult career centre that has a software package that identifies the right job for you.

My local liesure centre has an adult careers office with a program called "adult direcetions", you answer lots of questions about the kind of job you'd like to do and it gives you a list from its database. Any job in the top thirty is a good match, don't get fixated on the top match as a mall change in your responses could change the shortlist significantly.

Your post isn't really clear, you say you are 24 yet still in education, you say you are in a dead end job yet good at physics, maths, chemisty, history and geography. Why are you still studying all this at your age? A prospective employer might ask this question by the way.

DannyDaunt

Original Poster:

2 posts

187 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
quotequote all
Hi Gents. Thank you so much for the in-depth replies, it's truly appreciated.

StevieBee said:
Danny,
I'm 20 years ahead of you and...
Hi Stevie.
Thanks for your input. I fully agree about the 24 year old thing; it's like a quarter-life crisis! Doing what feels right: For me, it is to do what everyone else around me is doing - little prospects 9 till 5 jobs, and lounging around/pub in the evenings, followed by a weekend piss-up. No disrespect meant, if that's what they want to do then that's great, but that's not going to achieve the life I want. Took on board what you've said. Cheers.

shirt said:
'be great or nothing' sounds like something stuart 'the brand' baggs ....
Hi Shirt!
With regards to luck, I agree. Of all the biographies of successful people I have read (a lot!), luck has played a vital role in their story. However, there is a saying: "the harder you work, the luckier you get"...
I study Maths for 2 reasons. First and foremost, I enjoy it. Secondly, I feel that regardless of what career one pursues, one should have a decent grasp of Maths- just my opinion. If I was to study Maths at uni-level, and managed to secure a place at a top 10 university, I would probably attempt to work for one of the financial institutions. I've done much reading into careers from being an Actuary to being a Investment Analyst, and most appeal to me. However, to get into such careers, one usually has to have studied at a highly numeric course, at a top uni (Obviously there are some exceptions to this). However it is early days yet, who knows what I may happen on this journey I embark upon.
Nick M said:
I'll try to avoid getting too philosophical here...
Hello Nick.
I wholeheartedly agree, there is more to life than working. Undoubtedly, like for most people, my family is the most important thing in my life, and therefore I want to provide them with the best life possible.

"On the one hand jobs can put you in a position to be able to afford to do things you want to do, on the other they prevent you from doing them because you can't ever seem to *quite* find the time or *quite* afford what you want to do." - This really got me thinking! You've got to find a balance between the 2. Sadly, at the minute I can neither afford to do the things I really want to do, nor do I have the time!

Are you happy with your career? Based on: "If I could go back and, knowing what I now know about myself, have my time again I'd consider something radically different, like engineering..". If you could go back to 24 years old, assuming you're older than that, would you pursue a career in engineering, or feel that it is too late?

"So, have a think about what you want to do with your life, then have a think about what's *really* important to you, and see if that helps you to consider a particular job or career that excites you, or whether you just want to find a job that pays the bills but leaves you enough time / cash to go and do stuff that really makes life fun." Again, this has really got me thinking. Thanks for your thought-provoking reply, Nick.

matt28 said:
Hi,

You mention you could focus on your studies and get into a uni...
Hey Matt!
I thought about distant learning. However, my fear is that is it as well respected by employers as a degree from a "traditional" university? I mean, if it was, this would certainly be my best option... it's pretty much what I'm doing anyway. Except I do not take exams or anything, yet.

I don't mind the hard slog- in fact it appeals to me! I know that anything worth having in life requires hard work. And the element of delayed gratification really appeals to me! That is, working hard now, consistently for years, and who knows where one could be - this is what keeps me motivated!

With regards to the number of years: After calling Oxford/Cambridge/Warwick etc., they all highly recommended I went back to school to re-take GCSEs and A-levels. Therefore I budgeted 1 year for GCSEs, 2 years for A-levels, and then 3 years for the degree itself.

The distance learning is something that I will look into more in-depth today; sounds ideal for me! Thank you.

herbialfa said:
YOUR NOT HERE FOR A LONG TIME SO MAKE SURE ITS A GOOD TIME!!!!
You're right, and sometimes when I am studying I think to myself "I could be out now with my friends, having fun". But at the same time, I want to be able to create the best possible life for my little brother- be it in terms of helping him with school work, inspiring him to study, or to support him financially (I come from a poor background). When I think about this, again, I think about the whole delayed gratification thing. Yes, I am 'suffering' right now, but only so I can benefit in the future.

sploosh said:
IMHO experience is more important that qualifications... and a good employer will support you to get qualifications in the job.
Hi Sploosh, I hear what you're saying. Go for an entry-level job in what I want to do, then attempt to progress. Question is, which'd get me further in say, 15 years. For example, and I know this is impossible to answer, but entering the job NOW at entry level, or entering it at graduate level in 6-7 years time; by the time 2025 comes around, which has progressed further. Interesting thought. But from the research I have done, most senior figures of companies have attended a top uni. Albeit, I have only researched large companies.

Dangerous2 said:
you mentioned research in mathematics - are you interested in becoming a researcher/scientist, hence the need to go to university?
Hi Dangerous.
It's an option. I love maths and physics, so naturally it'd be one of the options. But I also love reading about the financial markets. I feel that a decent career in either would require a highly numerate degree from a good university.

DJC said:
What are you actually qualified in, what is your experience?
Hi DJC.
Age 16-19: Worked in the kitchen of Pizza Hut.
Age 17-20 years old: 9-5 mon-fri Customer services in an Insurance company (gone bust), and then 6-10 mon-fri and 8:30-5 sat and sun, pizza hut. Was earning good money at this point, but was exhausted!
Age 20-22 - Painter and decorator. (not for me)
Age 21-present - Work in the accounts of a letting agent. I solely handle £1.1 million per year - the only cool thing about my job. It's a small business; there's only 5 of us working there: Owner, Manager, Accounts dept. (me), and 2 x lettings admin.

cymtriks said:
Get yourself to an adult career centre that has a software package that identifies the right job for you...
That's a great idea! I'll have a search for such a centre right now!

To clear the confusion: I am not in education, I merely study at home. I am not enrolled at a college, I simply bought some books and studied. Reason I study: To better myself. Continue to learn. Knowledge is power (apparently!). My evenings are my spare time - I have a few options: study and increase my knowledge, see friends/family, or just chill out. I try to maintain a balance between all of these, but I prefer to study as I feel (hope) that someday it'll positively contribute towards my life in some way; whereas I know going to the pub will not. Do not get me wrong, life is meant for enjoying, and I do go out with friends etc., just not everyday of the week.



Thanks again all, I look forward to hearing your responses, and any new input.

Danny



Nick M

3,632 posts

251 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
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DannyDaunt said:
Nick M said:
I'll try to avoid getting too philosophical here...
Hello Nick.
I wholeheartedly agree, there is more to life than working. Undoubtedly, like for most people, my family is the most important thing in my life, and therefore I want to provide them with the best life possible.

"On the one hand jobs can put you in a position to be able to afford to do things you want to do, on the other they prevent you from doing them because you can't ever seem to *quite* find the time or *quite* afford what you want to do." - This really got me thinking! You've got to find a balance between the 2. Sadly, at the minute I can neither afford to do the things I really want to do, nor do I have the time!

Are you happy with your career? Based on: "If I could go back and, knowing what I now know about myself, have my time again I'd consider something radically different, like engineering..". If you could go back to 24 years old, assuming you're older than that, would you pursue a career in engineering, or feel that it is too late?

"So, have a think about what you want to do with your life, then have a think about what's *really* important to you, and see if that helps you to consider a particular job or career that excites you, or whether you just want to find a job that pays the bills but leaves you enough time / cash to go and do stuff that really makes life fun." Again, this has really got me thinking. Thanks for your thought-provoking reply, Nick.
Am I happy with my career ? Broadly no, but it pays the bills. I've certainly no regrets, and I've learned more about myself in the last 5 years or so that at most times previously, but I know what makes me tick and what I'm doing now, well, it doesn't. But I'm in the process of trying to do something about that.

If I could go back to when I was 24, I reckon I'd still have enough of a chance to do something radical like going to university or taking a different career path, but the longer you leave things the harder it becomes to take that risk. Ideally I'd go back to when I was at school and study different A levels and apply myself differently - when I was at school I didn't know what I wanted to do, so didn't bother thinking about it too much and spent my spare time sailing rather than studying. Had a great time, and ended up having a job land in my lap which seemed OK and my career developed from there. Ultimately the decisions I've taken along the way have given me the opportunity to sail around the world (not as a job, but as something that came up at the place I was working) and then spending 3 years working in Phoenix, Arizona. So like I say, no regrets, but my day job is for paying the bills at the moment.

But like I say, the one thing to try and bear in mind is to do things you enjoy. You sound an intelligent chap who can apply himself, but one who hasn't maybe had the opportunity to look at other possibilities beyond the obvious.

johnfm

13,751 posts

278 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
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Start your own business.

In 7 years you will be preparing your first private equity buy in.

Start it now while you have no kids, no mortgage, no downside.

sassthathoopie

968 posts

243 months

Sunday 23rd January 2011
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I was fortunate enough to be offered 6 months redundancy aged 23. I spent plenty of time analysing what I wanted to do (oddly enough it was professional sailing - so I did get paid to sail around the world!)

I suspect you'll find, like me, that the way ahead is never clear. What you have to do is take your best guess. Having a dabble before you jump in with both feet can be a good thing. For example I'd been sailing nearly every weekend for months before I ditched corporate marketing for a multinational, trained as a sailor and moved to the Cayman Islands.

I have read plenty of books that assist with the process. By far the best is this one:
Screw Work Lets Play

The author is a mate of mine and his advice is valuable. He mentored me for 2 months during which I worked out what was really important to me, found probably 'the girl', and have subsequently landed exactly the job I thought I was looking for. (Watch this space!)

You seem like the kind to get stuck in but it's worth repeating that just reading the book isn't enough - do the exercises and revisit them from time to time. I have a great resource I can refer back to about what I'm naturally talented at, what I've learned to do well, what I love to do, and what I'm successful at.

The key seems to be 'flow states'. Find the activity where you can focus intently and loose all track of time. Chances are you'll be combining natural talent with a passion for the subject. If you can link this ability/subject area to a problem that people need solving then you can earn great money doing something that doesn't feel like hard work.

You might find this Myers Briggs profile test useful to do to: http://www.prelude-team.com/ca/questionnaire

Apologies if this is too deep for PH but it's Sunday night, there are great tunes playing and we're already one bottle of red down.

Dangerous2

11,327 posts

220 months

Monday 24th January 2011
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try an open university course in a science or in maths?

whilst studying to expand your horizons you may as well gain some qualifications smile