Discussion
Hi, I am thinking of buying a 7.5 ton box truck to transport my race car. Does anyone know what the regulations are regarding driving one of these on a car licence (had a full car licence for 30 year).
Do you have to use the tachograph? why do I see trucks with NOT FOR HIRE OR REWARD on the side? Is it still registered as an HGV etc.
Thanks in advance.
Do you have to use the tachograph? why do I see trucks with NOT FOR HIRE OR REWARD on the side? Is it still registered as an HGV etc.
Thanks in advance.
Although the use for this truck is for your race car, you may get a more appropriate response from the sub forum of SP&L - however, see how it goes in here.
As for 7.5t - As you've had your license for 30+ years, you are able to drive one of these, fully legal, on your car license.
I however, can not!
My license is only 9 years old.
ETA: The reason you can and I can't, is due to the regulations being changed where anyone obtaining their license before a certain year having that freedom - I forget what the year is.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this apply on trailers/ caravans also? Where I can only tow up to a specific weight, where as the OP remains untouched (albeit keeping within the kerb weight of any vehicle.)
As for 7.5t - As you've had your license for 30+ years, you are able to drive one of these, fully legal, on your car license.
I however, can not!
My license is only 9 years old.ETA: The reason you can and I can't, is due to the regulations being changed where anyone obtaining their license before a certain year having that freedom - I forget what the year is.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this apply on trailers/ caravans also? Where I can only tow up to a specific weight, where as the OP remains untouched (albeit keeping within the kerb weight of any vehicle.)
Edited by mically on Friday 21st January 09:06
You can run a 7.5 ton truck privately without an operators licence as long as you are only carrying your own goods and not being paid.
As as private truck you don't need to run a tacho but do need to follow drivers hours, so either use the tacho or fill out. A log book.
The for hire or reward Stickers mean nothing,
Weight is the biggest problem, with a car, tail lift and some spares its easy to go over. It's a big fine do dont!
J would say though that our truck makes a big difference.
As as private truck you don't need to run a tacho but do need to follow drivers hours, so either use the tacho or fill out. A log book.
The for hire or reward Stickers mean nothing,
Weight is the biggest problem, with a car, tail lift and some spares its easy to go over. It's a big fine do dont!
J would say though that our truck makes a big difference.
royalerp16 said:
Do you have to use the tachograph? why do I see trucks with NOT FOR HIRE OR REWARD on the side? Is it still registered as an HGV etc.
Thanks in advance.
I had to clarify this point with VOSA for a client of mine recently - however, I would stress I had to consult several people within that Organisation - the movement of race cars is a grey area. Thanks in advance.
If you are running a truck as part of your hobby, motorsport, and you are not gaining financially out of running the truck e.g. hiring it out to other teams / drivers, then you don't need to apply or obtain a Haulier's Operators licence. Therefore, you can run with "Not for Hire etc" on the tractor Unit.
Clearly in motorsport, teams are gaining finanically from transporting cars around, and are running without O licences, so clearly policy is not policed by VOSA.
I was advised that the truck didn't have to run with latest electronic tacho, as no Operator's licence in place.
However, to check the current position, I would contact VOSA. Or maybe someone else has a more informed official line from them.
Andy
As Andy says..... ALLOT of grey areas....
You do have to use the tachograph by law. I did'nt think we had to and did'nt all of last year on our 7.5ton or 18ton lorry but having just done my class 2 and researched our liabilities as a team to the enth degree, I can assure you, you must use it and a log book is not sufficient if the VOSA chap feels like taking you further.
For the "not for hire and reward" you do idealy need some sort of "living facilities" in the lorry box. Some people say there is a specification to this but no one can find it! This is again a grey area but "not for hire and reward" means in effect, private use and private use is enterpreted as leisure, what other reasons would someone drive a lorry? Its a darn sight easier to justify private and or leisure use with living quarters! Again this is entirely in the hands of the VOSA inspector who may check you.
Not every team lorry has living quarters of course, but this is all about interpretation and getting stopped and what the inspector thinks is right or wrong about your individual situation!
Finaly the weight on a 7.5 ton lorry is very marginal for most cars. They are great for karts, bikes and just about for single seaters and Caterhams. As soon as you start adding fitted awnings, tool boxes, spares etc you'll be sailing very close with any car over 750kgs and will need the most basic of basic lorries to get by. We had a 7.5 tonner that weighed 6.8 tons empty but with awning. Seems plain stupid to build something like that but someone did (its now being converted to a motor home).
You do have to use the tachograph by law. I did'nt think we had to and did'nt all of last year on our 7.5ton or 18ton lorry but having just done my class 2 and researched our liabilities as a team to the enth degree, I can assure you, you must use it and a log book is not sufficient if the VOSA chap feels like taking you further.
For the "not for hire and reward" you do idealy need some sort of "living facilities" in the lorry box. Some people say there is a specification to this but no one can find it! This is again a grey area but "not for hire and reward" means in effect, private use and private use is enterpreted as leisure, what other reasons would someone drive a lorry? Its a darn sight easier to justify private and or leisure use with living quarters! Again this is entirely in the hands of the VOSA inspector who may check you.
Not every team lorry has living quarters of course, but this is all about interpretation and getting stopped and what the inspector thinks is right or wrong about your individual situation!
Finaly the weight on a 7.5 ton lorry is very marginal for most cars. They are great for karts, bikes and just about for single seaters and Caterhams. As soon as you start adding fitted awnings, tool boxes, spares etc you'll be sailing very close with any car over 750kgs and will need the most basic of basic lorries to get by. We had a 7.5 tonner that weighed 6.8 tons empty but with awning. Seems plain stupid to build something like that but someone did (its now being converted to a motor home).
My 7.5 Ford cargo, was less then 4 ton empty (I was using Ramps) but could fit my Tasmin racer in with about 6ft of space for spares, tools, wheels etc. so they can vary quite a bit, so best do some research on what your going to be carrying and the empty weight of the Truck.
When I took mine for it's MOT (I did not run a tacho) I had to fill in a disclaimer stating it was for private use only. I did not know about keeping a log so I could have been a bit screwed if stopped.
One thing also you need to think about is break down cover, as it will not be covered by any of the standard companies.
I've since converted over to Van and trailer, mainly due to the Truck being very old, and not have anywhere to store.
When I took mine for it's MOT (I did not run a tacho) I had to fill in a disclaimer stating it was for private use only. I did not know about keeping a log so I could have been a bit screwed if stopped.
One thing also you need to think about is break down cover, as it will not be covered by any of the standard companies.
I've since converted over to Van and trailer, mainly due to the Truck being very old, and not have anywhere to store.
TVRleigh_BBWR said:
My 7.5 Ford cargo, was less then 4 ton empty (I was using Ramps) but could fit my Tasmin racer in with about 6ft of space for spares, tools, wheels etc. so they can vary quite a bit, so best do some research on what your going to be carrying and the empty weight of the Truck.
When I took mine for it's MOT (I did not run a tacho) I had to fill in a disclaimer stating it was for private use only.
If I was buying a new truck I'd go for one with a drop tail and a door ramp rather than a tail lift, for weight and complexity issues.When I took mine for it's MOT (I did not run a tacho) I had to fill in a disclaimer stating it was for private use only.
When you fill out the disclaimer at plating time, that also means they dont test the tacho, and you dont need calibration certificates. as long as the tacho has had a calibration at some point its valid. The tacho is simple to use so best just to get in the habit of using it properly.
The vosa Chap Ispoke to pointed me int he driection of the relavant page of the regulations for private use and advised me to carry a copy, plus make sure my race entry forms were to hand so i could quickly prove it was my car in the back and that i was racing it.
There is an option to go for a restricted O licence where you can carry your own goods only. you dont need the operators exam for that.
Its interesting to walk through a paddock even at GT level and see how many of the trucks are not on an o-licence i.e. not displaying the disk.
It is a mine field though, It took me ages to find someone at vosa that had any clue, and plod has even less idea.
At some point I've do doubt someone will be taken to court as a test case..
I think most of the grey areas have recently been painted black
VOSA are aware of the use of the hire or reward stickers to try and negate the need for an o licence
and i am led to believe that they are going to be carrying out more enforcement of race teams this year
i would imagine that for the private truck users ie own truck own car etc then a licence will not be needed but for the race teams/ car preparers then a licence is or
You 'could' run your race transporter as a private HGV and without an O-license, but there would be heavy restrictions on what you could do (and how you could run the team) before you came under the scope of o-licensing rules. You would have to run the operation as a 'hobby' and finance the running costs entirely out of your own pocket in order to remain out of the scope of a commercial operation.
The minute the race team gains any form of sponsorship to contribute to the running costs of the 'team' (whether in the form of cash or goods supplied in return for advertising, or even a driver paying for his seat) it becomes a commercial operation, and would therefore requre an O-license and could no longer operate the vehicle as a private HGV, nor (i believe) could you tax it as such.
VOSA are aware of the use of the hire or reward stickers to try and negate the need for an o licence
and i am led to believe that they are going to be carrying out more enforcement of race teams this year
i would imagine that for the private truck users ie own truck own car etc then a licence will not be needed but for the race teams/ car preparers then a licence is or
You 'could' run your race transporter as a private HGV and without an O-license, but there would be heavy restrictions on what you could do (and how you could run the team) before you came under the scope of o-licensing rules. You would have to run the operation as a 'hobby' and finance the running costs entirely out of your own pocket in order to remain out of the scope of a commercial operation.
The minute the race team gains any form of sponsorship to contribute to the running costs of the 'team' (whether in the form of cash or goods supplied in return for advertising, or even a driver paying for his seat) it becomes a commercial operation, and would therefore requre an O-license and could no longer operate the vehicle as a private HGV, nor (i believe) could you tax it as such.
Simon Mason said:
As Andy says..... ALLOT of grey areas....
You do have to use the tachograph by law. I did'nt think we had to and did'nt all of last year on our 7.5ton or 18ton lorry but having just done my class 2 and researched our liabilities as a team to the enth degree, I can assure you, you must use it and a log book is not sufficient if the VOSA chap feels like taking you further.
For the "not for hire and reward" you do idealy need some sort of "living facilities" in the lorry box. Some people say there is a specification to this but no one can find it! This is again a grey area but "not for hire and reward" means in effect, private use and private use is enterpreted as leisure, what other reasons would someone drive a lorry? Its a darn sight easier to justify private and or leisure use with living quarters! Again this is entirely in the hands of the VOSA inspector who may check you.
Not every team lorry has living quarters of course, but this is all about interpretation and getting stopped and what the inspector thinks is right or wrong about your individual situation!
Finaly the weight on a 7.5 ton lorry is very marginal for most cars. They are great for karts, bikes and just about for single seaters and Caterhams. As soon as you start adding fitted awnings, tool boxes, spares etc you'll be sailing very close with any car over 750kgs and will need the most basic of basic lorries to get by. We had a 7.5 tonner that weighed 6.8 tons empty but with awning. Seems plain stupid to build something like that but someone did (its now being converted to a motor home).
6.8T? Are you sure? Even allowing for the awning that would give a payload of maybe a tonne. why would you bother when you can get a 3.5t vehicle to carry almost double that. You do have to use the tachograph by law. I did'nt think we had to and did'nt all of last year on our 7.5ton or 18ton lorry but having just done my class 2 and researched our liabilities as a team to the enth degree, I can assure you, you must use it and a log book is not sufficient if the VOSA chap feels like taking you further.
For the "not for hire and reward" you do idealy need some sort of "living facilities" in the lorry box. Some people say there is a specification to this but no one can find it! This is again a grey area but "not for hire and reward" means in effect, private use and private use is enterpreted as leisure, what other reasons would someone drive a lorry? Its a darn sight easier to justify private and or leisure use with living quarters! Again this is entirely in the hands of the VOSA inspector who may check you.
Not every team lorry has living quarters of course, but this is all about interpretation and getting stopped and what the inspector thinks is right or wrong about your individual situation!
Finaly the weight on a 7.5 ton lorry is very marginal for most cars. They are great for karts, bikes and just about for single seaters and Caterhams. As soon as you start adding fitted awnings, tool boxes, spares etc you'll be sailing very close with any car over 750kgs and will need the most basic of basic lorries to get by. We had a 7.5 tonner that weighed 6.8 tons empty but with awning. Seems plain stupid to build something like that but someone did (its now being converted to a motor home).
I have never come across a 7.5 tonner that weighed more than about 4T kerb weight. Maybe 4.5 with a big tail lift.
Operator Licensing is the legal system for controlling the use of goods vehicles used for trade & business purposes for most goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes GVW. There are 3 classes of Operator Licences.
These are :- Restricted, Standard National, and Standard International.
Restricted licences are only available to own-account operators who carry nothing other than goods in connection with their own trade or business. Restricted “O“ Licence holders must not use their vehicles for hire or reward or on behalf of customers, even if done only as a favour, or as part of the service provided to a customer, even if no charges are raised.
Standard National licences entitles the holder (ie professional haulier) to also carry goods for hire or reward on national operations only.
Standard International licence entitles the holder to also carry goods for hire or reward on both national & international operations.
A licence identity disc containing the registration number of the vehicle concerned is issued for each vehicle specified on the operator’s licence. Each disc will show the operator’s name, the vehicle registration number, the operator’s licence number, the disc expiry date and the type of licence. The discs are colour coded:-
Orange - Restricted licence
Blue - Standard National licence
Green - Standard International licence
There are some vehicles which are exempt from the operator licensing system :- for example vehicles used by the emergency services such as the police, the ambulance service, the fire service, armed forces etc. Also private vehicles used solely for carrying private belongings, that are not connected with any business activities & are taxed privately. An example of this is a private horsebox, used by a person for transporting their horses to a show as a non professional competitor etc. Recovery vehicles are exempt from operator licensing & this does cause confusion within our industry, ie transporting cars. For example a recovery vehicle must only be used for the recovery of a vehicle that has recently been involved in an accident or has broken down, and such a vehicle must be taken to a place of safety or for repair or to be scrapped. They must not be used for the general transportation of vehicles, whether in roadworthy condition or not. For example, a vehicle such as a classic car that had been stored in a barn for a considerable time then the owner requires it taking to a restoration garage or to another owner, must NOT be transported by a recovery vehicle. Recovery vehicles are registered & taxed as such.
Requirements to obtain an Operator’s Licence.
An applicant cannot obtain an Operators Licence like a TV licence! They are not automatically granted.
Applicants must meet certain statutory requirements & must satisfy certain conditions.
Restricted Licences.
Applicants must be fit & proper persons, of appropriate financial standing .
Standard Licence.
Applicants must be of good repute, of appropriate financial standing, be professionally qualified/ competent or must employ a person who is professionally qualified & competent in national transport operations.
Standard International Licence.
Applicants must be as above, but in addition must be professionally qualified / competent in both national & international operations or employ someone who is.
All licence applicants must make legally binding promises & undertakings. All applicants / holders must show & maintain that they have adequate facilities or arrangements to keep vehicles in a safe & legal condition. They must also keep suitable maintenance records. Regular safety inspections & routine maintenance should be carried out usually at a maximum of 6 weekly intervals, but depending on usage, this could be much lower. All licence applicants/holders must show & maintain satisfactory arrangements for insuring that the law relating to driver’s hours records, including tachographs will be complied with. All licence applicants / holders must make proper arrangements to prevent overloading of vehicles & trailers. All licence applicants / holders must have & maintain a suitable operating centre.
Impounding of Vehicles.
Vehicles can now be impounded & heavy fines imposed if a goods vehicle is used without / or with the incorrect operator‘s licence. Impounded vehicles & their goods may be returned to their owner in due course provided that specified conditions are met & goods returned to the owner when title has been established. Incorrect & unlicensed operator’s vehicles are at great risk of insurance claims not being met.
ULOWFOTR said:
Stuff and
There are some vehicles which are exempt from the operator licensing system :- for example vehicles used by the emergency services such as the police, the ambulance service, the fire service, armed forces etc. Also private vehicles used solely for carrying private belongings, that are not connected with any business activities & are taxed privately. An example of this is a private horsebox, used by a person for transporting their horses to a show as a non professional competitor etc.
You seem to really know your stuff, do you know if there is any difference from say a private horse, to a private race car, going to a club race, with a club race your not a professional as your not getting paid or getting price money.There are some vehicles which are exempt from the operator licensing system :- for example vehicles used by the emergency services such as the police, the ambulance service, the fire service, armed forces etc. Also private vehicles used solely for carrying private belongings, that are not connected with any business activities & are taxed privately. An example of this is a private horsebox, used by a person for transporting their horses to a show as a non professional competitor etc.
Thanks
Leigh
ULOWFOTR said:
Operator Licensing is the legal system for controlling the use of goods vehicles used for trade & business purposes for most goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes GVW. There are 3 classes of Operator Licences.
These are :- Restricted, Standard National, and Standard International.
Restricted licences are only available to own-account operators who carry nothing other than goods in connection with their own trade or business. Restricted “O“ Licence holders must not use their vehicles for hire or reward or on behalf of customers, even if done only as a favour, or as part of the service provided to a customer, even if no charges are raised.
Standard National licences entitles the holder (ie professional haulier) to also carry goods for hire or reward on national operations only.
Standard International licence entitles the holder to also carry goods for hire or reward on both national & international operations.
A licence identity disc containing the registration number of the vehicle concerned is issued for each vehicle specified on the operator’s licence. Each disc will show the operator’s name, the vehicle registration number, the operator’s licence number, the disc expiry date and the type of licence. The discs are colour coded:-
Orange - Restricted licence
Blue - Standard National licence
Green - Standard International licence
There are some vehicles which are exempt from the operator licensing system :- for example vehicles used by the emergency services such as the police, the ambulance service, the fire service, armed forces etc. Also private vehicles used solely for carrying private belongings, that are not connected with any business activities & are taxed privately. An example of this is a private horsebox, used by a person for transporting their horses to a show as a non professional competitor etc. Recovery vehicles are exempt from operator licensing & this does cause confusion within our industry, ie transporting cars. For example a recovery vehicle must only be used for the recovery of a vehicle that has recently been involved in an accident or has broken down, and such a vehicle must be taken to a place of safety or for repair or to be scrapped. They must not be used for the general transportation of vehicles, whether in roadworthy condition or not. For example, a vehicle such as a classic car that had been stored in a barn for a considerable time then the owner requires it taking to a restoration garage or to another owner, must NOT be transported by a recovery vehicle. Recovery vehicles are registered & taxed as such.
Requirements to obtain an Operator’s Licence.
An applicant cannot obtain an Operators Licence like a TV licence! They are not automatically granted.
Applicants must meet certain statutory requirements & must satisfy certain conditions.
Restricted Licences.
Applicants must be fit & proper persons, of appropriate financial standing .
Standard Licence.
Applicants must be of good repute, of appropriate financial standing, be professionally qualified/ competent or must employ a person who is professionally qualified & competent in national transport operations.
Standard International Licence.
Applicants must be as above, but in addition must be professionally qualified / competent in both national & international operations or employ someone who is.
All licence applicants must make legally binding promises & undertakings. All applicants / holders must show & maintain that they have adequate facilities or arrangements to keep vehicles in a safe & legal condition. They must also keep suitable maintenance records. Regular safety inspections & routine maintenance should be carried out usually at a maximum of 6 weekly intervals, but depending on usage, this could be much lower. All licence applicants/holders must show & maintain satisfactory arrangements for insuring that the law relating to driver’s hours records, including tachographs will be complied with. All licence applicants / holders must make proper arrangements to prevent overloading of vehicles & trailers. All licence applicants / holders must have & maintain a suitable operating centre.
Impounding of Vehicles.
Vehicles can now be impounded & heavy fines imposed if a goods vehicle is used without / or with the incorrect operator‘s licence. Impounded vehicles & their goods may be returned to their owner in due course provided that specified conditions are met & goods returned to the owner when title has been established. Incorrect & unlicensed operator’s vehicles are at great risk of insurance claims not being met.
I have no doubt that this is true but doesn't it just paint a sad picture about how far into bureaucratic mire this country has fallen? These are :- Restricted, Standard National, and Standard International.
Restricted licences are only available to own-account operators who carry nothing other than goods in connection with their own trade or business. Restricted “O“ Licence holders must not use their vehicles for hire or reward or on behalf of customers, even if done only as a favour, or as part of the service provided to a customer, even if no charges are raised.
Standard National licences entitles the holder (ie professional haulier) to also carry goods for hire or reward on national operations only.
Standard International licence entitles the holder to also carry goods for hire or reward on both national & international operations.
A licence identity disc containing the registration number of the vehicle concerned is issued for each vehicle specified on the operator’s licence. Each disc will show the operator’s name, the vehicle registration number, the operator’s licence number, the disc expiry date and the type of licence. The discs are colour coded:-
Orange - Restricted licence
Blue - Standard National licence
Green - Standard International licence
There are some vehicles which are exempt from the operator licensing system :- for example vehicles used by the emergency services such as the police, the ambulance service, the fire service, armed forces etc. Also private vehicles used solely for carrying private belongings, that are not connected with any business activities & are taxed privately. An example of this is a private horsebox, used by a person for transporting their horses to a show as a non professional competitor etc. Recovery vehicles are exempt from operator licensing & this does cause confusion within our industry, ie transporting cars. For example a recovery vehicle must only be used for the recovery of a vehicle that has recently been involved in an accident or has broken down, and such a vehicle must be taken to a place of safety or for repair or to be scrapped. They must not be used for the general transportation of vehicles, whether in roadworthy condition or not. For example, a vehicle such as a classic car that had been stored in a barn for a considerable time then the owner requires it taking to a restoration garage or to another owner, must NOT be transported by a recovery vehicle. Recovery vehicles are registered & taxed as such.
Requirements to obtain an Operator’s Licence.
An applicant cannot obtain an Operators Licence like a TV licence! They are not automatically granted.
Applicants must meet certain statutory requirements & must satisfy certain conditions.
Restricted Licences.
Applicants must be fit & proper persons, of appropriate financial standing .
Standard Licence.
Applicants must be of good repute, of appropriate financial standing, be professionally qualified/ competent or must employ a person who is professionally qualified & competent in national transport operations.
Standard International Licence.
Applicants must be as above, but in addition must be professionally qualified / competent in both national & international operations or employ someone who is.
All licence applicants must make legally binding promises & undertakings. All applicants / holders must show & maintain that they have adequate facilities or arrangements to keep vehicles in a safe & legal condition. They must also keep suitable maintenance records. Regular safety inspections & routine maintenance should be carried out usually at a maximum of 6 weekly intervals, but depending on usage, this could be much lower. All licence applicants/holders must show & maintain satisfactory arrangements for insuring that the law relating to driver’s hours records, including tachographs will be complied with. All licence applicants / holders must make proper arrangements to prevent overloading of vehicles & trailers. All licence applicants / holders must have & maintain a suitable operating centre.
Impounding of Vehicles.
Vehicles can now be impounded & heavy fines imposed if a goods vehicle is used without / or with the incorrect operator‘s licence. Impounded vehicles & their goods may be returned to their owner in due course provided that specified conditions are met & goods returned to the owner when title has been established. Incorrect & unlicensed operator’s vehicles are at great risk of insurance claims not being met.
DSM2 said:
I have no doubt that this is true but doesn't it just paint a sad picture about how far into bureaucratic mire this country has fallen?
Bureaucratic mire maybe but a commercial vehicle can be quite a lethal weapon when things go wrong and that is the reason for operators lcence
what would you say when your driving along the motorway with your car and caravan and an unlicenced truck which has had its tyres kicked once in the last twelve months as its maintainance, crashes into your caravan because its brakes failed and destroys your car and caravan then his insurance refuse to pay out because he was carryng goods for hire or reward in what was supposed to be a private truck
TVRleigh_BBWR said:
You seem to really know your stuff, do you know if there is any difference from say a private horse, to a private race car, going to a club race, with a club race your not a professional as your not getting paid or getting price money.
Thanks
Leigh
so long as its your racecar your truck and your bearing all the costs ie no sponsorship etc then you can be classed as private Thanks
Leigh
ive heard that vosa want to bring all trucks over 3.5tonne even private use ones into the o licence system so they can police better the maintenance of private trucks ie the horsebox that is held together with bail twine
Its interesting as you get different answers each time you speak to vosa. I had a longchat with the inspectors at the local office, and they are happy with sponsors logos, sharing the car with others etc, as long as there is no "Commercial Gain" i.e its being run as a business.
there was a team on ph who were stopped recently with a logoed race car on a trailer, being towed by a company van. they were issued a prohibition notice due to no tacho, drivers hours etc but successfully argued with written evidence that it wasnt for commercial gain, and vosa dropped the notice.
The best way to protect yourself is to make sure everything else is in order... the truck is properly maintained, clean and tidy, you have the correct licence, and either have a log of driver hours or use the tacho. If you can present them with that, state that its used privetly as a hobby and not for commercial gain thats going to stop you having a problem 99% of the time..
if they stop you in a scruffy, overloaded truck with no record of driving hours they will look for anything to do you on.
Interestingly all the inspectors I spoke are more concerned about trailers and the minefield of legality than they were about private 7.5 ton / hgv's. Trailer law is far more complicated, and cause far more accidents.. If there is any comercial gain towing you need to run a tacho, other than recovery only, which only includes a broken down vehicle to and from a place of repair. There is a big problem with overloading on tow cars and trailers too.
The inspectors also seemed to have no problem with private HGV's and indeed even advised I would be better in their eyes using a truck than a trailer. They understand that they do very few miles per year, probably less than a commercial vehicle will do in a week. Your always going to get one pita with a bee in his bonnet though.
with reference to a truck hitting you and then not being insured. as long as the truck has insurance, they have to pay out on the 3rd party, although they will not pay out to the owner of the truck and will also seek to recover the 3rd party claim from the truck owner.
If you want to be whiter than white, a restricted Operators licence is the way to go. you dont need a competant person certificate, but you will need planning permission to store and operate the vehicle from as well as a maintenence shedule/ contract and carry out all the specified checks and carry more records inc tacho and drivers hours.
there was a team on ph who were stopped recently with a logoed race car on a trailer, being towed by a company van. they were issued a prohibition notice due to no tacho, drivers hours etc but successfully argued with written evidence that it wasnt for commercial gain, and vosa dropped the notice.
The best way to protect yourself is to make sure everything else is in order... the truck is properly maintained, clean and tidy, you have the correct licence, and either have a log of driver hours or use the tacho. If you can present them with that, state that its used privetly as a hobby and not for commercial gain thats going to stop you having a problem 99% of the time..
if they stop you in a scruffy, overloaded truck with no record of driving hours they will look for anything to do you on.
Interestingly all the inspectors I spoke are more concerned about trailers and the minefield of legality than they were about private 7.5 ton / hgv's. Trailer law is far more complicated, and cause far more accidents.. If there is any comercial gain towing you need to run a tacho, other than recovery only, which only includes a broken down vehicle to and from a place of repair. There is a big problem with overloading on tow cars and trailers too.
The inspectors also seemed to have no problem with private HGV's and indeed even advised I would be better in their eyes using a truck than a trailer. They understand that they do very few miles per year, probably less than a commercial vehicle will do in a week. Your always going to get one pita with a bee in his bonnet though.
with reference to a truck hitting you and then not being insured. as long as the truck has insurance, they have to pay out on the 3rd party, although they will not pay out to the owner of the truck and will also seek to recover the 3rd party claim from the truck owner.
If you want to be whiter than white, a restricted Operators licence is the way to go. you dont need a competant person certificate, but you will need planning permission to store and operate the vehicle from as well as a maintenence shedule/ contract and carry out all the specified checks and carry more records inc tacho and drivers hours.
ULOWFOTR said:
Bureaucratic mire maybe
but a commercial vehicle can be quite a lethal weapon when things go wrong and that is the reason for operators lcence
what would you say when your driving along the motorway with your car and caravan and an unlicenced truck which has had its tyres kicked once in the last twelve months as its maintainance, crashes into your caravan because its brakes failed and destroys your car and caravan then his insurance refuse to pay out because he was carryng goods for hire or reward in what was supposed to be a private truck
As the holder of an O licence and running 3, 25 tonne + rigids and a fleet of over thirty LCVs of various capacities I think I am well placed to say that the mass of different requirements for the different vehicles and O licences is an unecessary mess.but a commercial vehicle can be quite a lethal weapon when things go wrong and that is the reason for operators lcence
what would you say when your driving along the motorway with your car and caravan and an unlicenced truck which has had its tyres kicked once in the last twelve months as its maintainance, crashes into your caravan because its brakes failed and destroys your car and caravan then his insurance refuse to pay out because he was carryng goods for hire or reward in what was supposed to be a private truck
The whole thing could be covered by one licensing requirement for anyone running CVs of any kind, plus two for drivers. That would be understandable by everyone but of course might expose some of the jobsworths developing these 'rules'.
And you use a poor analogy. The cretin running the unmaintained, unroadworthy truck will be there regardless of the regulations. He will flaunt whatever is there, as will the one running the just as dangerous private car.
I am not saying that we shouldn't have a system of control just that the current one is unnecessarily bureaucratic and unwieldy, as with most of our public services and is there for the people who administer it, rather than those who operate within it.
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