Tail-happy 335d coupe?
Discussion
Hi all,
I have owned the car for a few months now and pre snow and ice was ok but twitchy when pushed now I get wheel spin even when its only slightly damp and im just pulling away (non agressively) or changing down for an overtake (again non aggresivly).. Tread on the rears is fine although they are run flats.. I was just wondering if this is normal or wether is just a product of the tourque going through the rears.. I wouldn't post this if it was not happening far to regularly even with sedate driving...to be honest its getting very annoying as the DTC kicks in in and immediately stops me pulling away which can be dangerous.. likewise if I turn the DTC off I just get spin. Having owned some quick RWD cars before I have not encountered this problem so wondering if there is anything else I should get looked at....
thanks
I have owned the car for a few months now and pre snow and ice was ok but twitchy when pushed now I get wheel spin even when its only slightly damp and im just pulling away (non agressively) or changing down for an overtake (again non aggresivly).. Tread on the rears is fine although they are run flats.. I was just wondering if this is normal or wether is just a product of the tourque going through the rears.. I wouldn't post this if it was not happening far to regularly even with sedate driving...to be honest its getting very annoying as the DTC kicks in in and immediately stops me pulling away which can be dangerous.. likewise if I turn the DTC off I just get spin. Having owned some quick RWD cars before I have not encountered this problem so wondering if there is anything else I should get looked at....
thanks
A lot less grip here too.
If the autobox changes down when requesting power it can kick the back end out. Just the other day i pressed half throttle whilst looking for a quickish get away and the back end actually went left then right before straightening up.
That's on winter tyres. Its down to this damp cold weather. The roads are v.slippery and a lot of torque in the rear wheels.
If the autobox changes down when requesting power it can kick the back end out. Just the other day i pressed half throttle whilst looking for a quickish get away and the back end actually went left then right before straightening up.
That's on winter tyres. Its down to this damp cold weather. The roads are v.slippery and a lot of torque in the rear wheels.
gizlaroc said:
sounds like the typical BMW behaviour when it has different tyres on the front and back, that is exactly how they become, back end kicks out all the time.
A bit of a generalisation I think. If the rear tyres are inferior to the fronts, whether through wear or simply a different tyre with lesser grip, then yes its likely to result in a more oversteer led balance.However, the opposite should also be true. Until recently I had Goodyear RFT's all round but needed replacements for the rears which were approaching the tread depth markers. The fronts had 6mm left and were in excellent condition. I couldn't source Goodyears (which aren't great anyway) so went with the best of the RFT choice (Michelin PS2 ZP). Although the car now has mismatched tyres front to rear, the grip and balance is fantastic. Far better than it ever was with equal tread depth (but inferior) tyres of the same type on each corner.
E30M3SE said:
335d coupe?
Have a proper look at the inside edeges of the tyres, as the run flats on these cars, guessing your on 19", like to burn up the inside edges.
Have a proper look at the inside edeges of the tyres, as the run flats on these cars, guessing your on 19", like to burn up the inside edges.
My 335i with 19" Bridgestone RFTs was completely useless in the snow before Christmas; I'm sure a 335D is going to be a real handful with all the extra torque. The inner edges of the rears were on the wear limit to be honest, as E30M3SE says, but I was naive about how much the RE50's change when they're cold. Bridgestone say the tyre's performance deteriorates when temperatures drop below 7 degrees so now I have some 17" Dunlop Winter Sport XPs on. Its a different car now with plenty of grip with the added benefit of riding like a limo too
Edited by CRACKIE on Sunday 23 January 18:12
Heathwood said:
gizlaroc said:
sounds like the typical BMW behaviour when it has different tyres on the front and back, that is exactly how they become, back end kicks out all the time.
A bit of a generalisation I think. If the rear tyres are inferior to the fronts, whether through wear or simply a different tyre with lesser grip, then yes its likely to result in a more oversteer led balance.However, the opposite should also be true. Until recently I had Goodyear RFT's all round but needed replacements for the rears which were approaching the tread depth markers. The fronts had 6mm left and were in excellent condition. I couldn't source Goodyears (which aren't great anyway) so went with the best of the RFT choice (Michelin PS2 ZP). Although the car now has mismatched tyres front to rear, the grip and balance is fantastic. Far better than it ever was with equal tread depth (but inferior) tyres of the same type on each corner.
It's not just the tread depth that upsets the chassis, it's the different tread patterns, the different rubber compounds, the different ply constructions, the different wear characteristics etc.
Even different model tyres from the same manufacturer can upset them.
CRACKIE said:
E30M3SE said:
335d coupe?
Have a proper look at the inside edeges of the tyres, as the run flats on these cars, guessing your on 19", like to burn up the inside edges.
Have a proper look at the inside edeges of the tyres, as the run flats on these cars, guessing your on 19", like to burn up the inside edges.
My 335i with 19" Bridgestone RFTs was completely useless in the snow before Christmas; I'm sure a 335D is going to be a real handful with all the extra torque.
Fox- said:
CRACKIE said:
E30M3SE said:
335d coupe?
Have a proper look at the inside edeges of the tyres, as the run flats on these cars, guessing your on 19", like to burn up the inside edges.
Have a proper look at the inside edeges of the tyres, as the run flats on these cars, guessing your on 19", like to burn up the inside edges.
My 335i with 19" Bridgestone RFTs was completely useless in the snow before Christmas; I'm sure a 335D is going to be a real handful with all the extra torque.
Fox- said:
CRACKIE said:
E30M3SE said:
335d coupe?
Have a proper look at the inside edeges of the tyres, as the run flats on these cars, guessing your on 19", like to burn up the inside edges.
Have a proper look at the inside edeges of the tyres, as the run flats on these cars, guessing your on 19", like to burn up the inside edges.
My 335i with 19" Bridgestone RFTs was completely useless in the snow before Christmas; I'm sure a 335D is going to be a real handful with all the extra torque.
The gearbox is a torque multiplier - my understanding is that the high torque figures of diesel engines are, whilst impressive, not quite what they seem because the fact the engine revs lower and has different gear ratios in the gearbox means those impressive torque figures are not quite so impressive when compared to the torque at the wheels figure of a similarly powerful yet on paper less torquey petrol engine?
It is power and not torque which defines acceleration - power is a byproduct of torque x rpm / 5252?
Thats my understanding anyway. It seems that lately people forget all this and assume because the 1.9 TDI they have has 'loads of torque' its somehow going to be super fast and dump loads of power on the tarmac.
Nobody would dispute how much power an F1 car puts through its rear wheels - yet it has less torque than a Golf diesel. Gearing can make torque at the fly irrelevent.
Therefore the assumption that the 335d would be more tail happy than the more powerful 335i purely on account of additional torque is flawed, if my understanding is correct?
It is power and not torque which defines acceleration - power is a byproduct of torque x rpm / 5252?
Thats my understanding anyway. It seems that lately people forget all this and assume because the 1.9 TDI they have has 'loads of torque' its somehow going to be super fast and dump loads of power on the tarmac.
Nobody would dispute how much power an F1 car puts through its rear wheels - yet it has less torque than a Golf diesel. Gearing can make torque at the fly irrelevent.
Therefore the assumption that the 335d would be more tail happy than the more powerful 335i purely on account of additional torque is flawed, if my understanding is correct?
Fox- said:
The gearbox is a torque multiplier - my understanding is that the high torque figures of diesel engines are, whilst impressive, not quite what they seem because the fact the engine revs lower and has different gear ratios in the gearbox means those impressive torque figures are not quite so impressive when compared to the torque at the wheels figure of a similarly powerful yet on paper less torquey petrol engine?
It is power and not torque which defines acceleration - power is a byproduct of torque x rpm / 5252?
Thats my understanding anyway. It seems that lately people forget all this and assume because the 1.9 TDI they have has 'loads of torque' its somehow going to be super fast and dump loads of power on the tarmac.
Nobody would dispute how much power an F1 car puts through its rear wheels - yet it has less torque than a Golf diesel. Gearing can make torque at the fly irrelevent.
Therefore the assumption that the 335d would be more tail happy than the more powerful 335i purely on account of additional torque is flawed, if my understanding is correct?
I believe that stock N54 engines make a good few more lb/ft than the specified 295 at approx 325~330 and that gearing can be a significant factor but I'd be very surprised if a 335D ends up with less twist at the wheels. 335i = less shove but big power band from 1300-6500 ~ 335D = bigger shove smaller power band. Not too fussed which has the most torque at the wheels tbh but either way 135i/335i & 335D/535D with run flats in the snow = It is power and not torque which defines acceleration - power is a byproduct of torque x rpm / 5252?
Thats my understanding anyway. It seems that lately people forget all this and assume because the 1.9 TDI they have has 'loads of torque' its somehow going to be super fast and dump loads of power on the tarmac.
Nobody would dispute how much power an F1 car puts through its rear wheels - yet it has less torque than a Golf diesel. Gearing can make torque at the fly irrelevent.
Therefore the assumption that the 335d would be more tail happy than the more powerful 335i purely on account of additional torque is flawed, if my understanding is correct?
or 
Edited by CRACKIE on Saturday 22 January 21:53
I have a 535d and it will spin the rears in the wet all day long, as for snow..... I test drove a 135d a couple of years ago and it also struggled to keep the rear wheels on the black stuff.
I have recently stuck some Pirelli P-Zero's on the car and so far they seem a lot better, runflats, 245/40/18 running at 38 psi.
I find runflats leak air from the tyres badly. My 530d did it and so do the 535d's. Filling them up once a month I can find pressures of 28-32psi are the norm. Once they are filled grip is much better for a day or so!
Dry weather the x35d lump is great fun, but in reality, in the wet you may as well have no torque as the rears spin so easily.
That said, at the expense of tread, with DSC turned off, you can have a lot of fun. For all the times i have someone in the car and i'm left hanging with the orange light flashing, the times i'm alone easily make up for it!
I have recently stuck some Pirelli P-Zero's on the car and so far they seem a lot better, runflats, 245/40/18 running at 38 psi.
I find runflats leak air from the tyres badly. My 530d did it and so do the 535d's. Filling them up once a month I can find pressures of 28-32psi are the norm. Once they are filled grip is much better for a day or so!
Dry weather the x35d lump is great fun, but in reality, in the wet you may as well have no torque as the rears spin so easily.
That said, at the expense of tread, with DSC turned off, you can have a lot of fun. For all the times i have someone in the car and i'm left hanging with the orange light flashing, the times i'm alone easily make up for it!
wow ok chaps same tires all round.
a little wear on the inside but not significant.
psi pressure was low now topped up!
still booked in for a geo check on wed as left side is slightly lower than right
will look at getting non run flats if all checks out
as for torque vs 335i im not worried either way as i love it when it behaves
thanks for your responses
a little wear on the inside but not significant.
psi pressure was low now topped up!
still booked in for a geo check on wed as left side is slightly lower than right
will look at getting non run flats if all checks out
as for torque vs 335i im not worried either way as i love it when it behaves
thanks for your responses
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