porsche pdk anybody fitted one ?
Discussion
These boxes are used on the current Turbo so should be able to cope with the torque. They would also improve the speed of gear changing and allow left foot braking too.
I suspect the problems involved in the electronics could be overcome by an electronics whizz but I bet they will not like being run upside down without rearranging the oil pump and supply system.
I had thought about using one but I am no computer whizz and being the first to do something would involve me loosing what little hair I have got.
Good luck and I may be interested in one when you sell the converted box!
Paul
I suspect the problems involved in the electronics could be overcome by an electronics whizz but I bet they will not like being run upside down without rearranging the oil pump and supply system.
I had thought about using one but I am no computer whizz and being the first to do something would involve me loosing what little hair I have got.
Good luck and I may be interested in one when you sell the converted box!
Paul
yes the upside down could become a real issue as they write there is a pump drawing 500 watts inside and the clutch is running in oil, so without changing the oil system probably not possible. I am assuming there is a control box, that is having inputs for rpms, speed,
and what else that has to be generated, maybe even a CAN interface. I hear only nice things about this box and would make a nice paddle shift car without being too expensive.
Easy to mount too as the clutches are inside the box, no clutch pedal no take cylinder....
and what else that has to be generated, maybe even a CAN interface. I hear only nice things about this box and would make a nice paddle shift car without being too expensive.
Easy to mount too as the clutches are inside the box, no clutch pedal no take cylinder....
Believe me, compared to reverse engineeing the control strategy, fixing things like gearbox oilling etc would be a walk in the park!
Modern engine ecu have "Torque" as the primary control parameter, hence the transmission control ecu can request an output torque from the engine, both to control shaft/clutch loading but also shaft speeds (speed control loop outside torque control loop).
To integrate a shift in a DSG transmission takes very close attention to timing and torque control (engine toruqe mapping will be required to be within a maximum of 10Nm across the speed range, and the zero torque crossing point will need an error less than 5Nm).
Now, you almost certainly will be able to find someone to make you a control ecu (fairly easy this, with a modern 32bit uC and some solenoid drives) but you likely to spend years and wreck quite a few gearboxes before you suss out the precise control envelope for each gearshift event. (not to mention having to "Torque" map you engine accurately. (this is a massive job for the average person, engine will need to be on an engine dyno, with flwheel torque charateristic curves determined for all operational modes (cold & hot cooant and intake air, fuel grades, rpm vs load, oil temp modification etc!
Alternatively you could use an instrumented inputshaft, that has a torque meter built into it, but this is a) expensive, b) unreliable, and c) has a poor resolution.
On top of all that, the gearboxes own friction charateristics change with temperature and wear, so you would have to determine how hard to drive the clutch packs etc for anygiven loading.
And because on a dsg, the shift events overlap (one clutch disengages as another engages) get it wrong and you effectively end up with 2 gears at once, which in something powerful would probably result in gears and shafts exiting stage left through the gear casing.
I think it would be far easier to hack one of the modern multispeed torque convertor auto's tbh!
Modern engine ecu have "Torque" as the primary control parameter, hence the transmission control ecu can request an output torque from the engine, both to control shaft/clutch loading but also shaft speeds (speed control loop outside torque control loop).
To integrate a shift in a DSG transmission takes very close attention to timing and torque control (engine toruqe mapping will be required to be within a maximum of 10Nm across the speed range, and the zero torque crossing point will need an error less than 5Nm).
Now, you almost certainly will be able to find someone to make you a control ecu (fairly easy this, with a modern 32bit uC and some solenoid drives) but you likely to spend years and wreck quite a few gearboxes before you suss out the precise control envelope for each gearshift event. (not to mention having to "Torque" map you engine accurately. (this is a massive job for the average person, engine will need to be on an engine dyno, with flwheel torque charateristic curves determined for all operational modes (cold & hot cooant and intake air, fuel grades, rpm vs load, oil temp modification etc!
Alternatively you could use an instrumented inputshaft, that has a torque meter built into it, but this is a) expensive, b) unreliable, and c) has a poor resolution.
On top of all that, the gearboxes own friction charateristics change with temperature and wear, so you would have to determine how hard to drive the clutch packs etc for anygiven loading.
And because on a dsg, the shift events overlap (one clutch disengages as another engages) get it wrong and you effectively end up with 2 gears at once, which in something powerful would probably result in gears and shafts exiting stage left through the gear casing.
I think it would be far easier to hack one of the modern multispeed torque convertor auto's tbh!
Hi
This is right up my street! I have been designing automotive electronics for decades and am also a fully qualified stress analysis engineer (aerospace and automotive), I have also developed our own range of load / torque analysis electronics to provide stress analysis in real time.
I am also busy building an Ultima, so lets just say that if someone had one of these boxes and wanted it to be made to work, I am pretty sure that I can do this given the right, ahem, motivation.
Gareth
This is right up my street! I have been designing automotive electronics for decades and am also a fully qualified stress analysis engineer (aerospace and automotive), I have also developed our own range of load / torque analysis electronics to provide stress analysis in real time.
I am also busy building an Ultima, so lets just say that if someone had one of these boxes and wanted it to be made to work, I am pretty sure that I can do this given the right, ahem, motivation.
Gareth
GarethGTR said:
Hi
This is right up my street! I have been designing automotive electronics for decades and am also a fully qualified stress analysis engineer (aerospace and automotive), I have also developed our own range of load / torque analysis electronics to provide stress analysis in real time.
I am also busy building an Ultima, so lets just say that if someone had one of these boxes and wanted it to be made to work, I am pretty sure that I can do this given the right, ahem, motivation.
Gareth
See my previous post for your motivation. You have to speculate to accumulate!This is right up my street! I have been designing automotive electronics for decades and am also a fully qualified stress analysis engineer (aerospace and automotive), I have also developed our own range of load / torque analysis electronics to provide stress analysis in real time.
I am also busy building an Ultima, so lets just say that if someone had one of these boxes and wanted it to be made to work, I am pretty sure that I can do this given the right, ahem, motivation.
Gareth
Paul
has anyone retrofited the a PDK in to a boxster or cayman. i would think it somewhat easier to do the transplant in a porsche first as a lot of other stuff should just bolt up or plug in?
maybe find a broken/parting out 911pdk and try and get it going in an early boxster, but keep the 911 engine.......
maybe find a broken/parting out 911pdk and try and get it going in an early boxster, but keep the 911 engine.......
spatz said:
Rollcage said:
What about using the PDK box from the Panamera? It wouldn't have to be run upside down, and might even have a better torque rating.
there is a PDK version for the Cayman and that would not require upside down.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JtTTyalbd4&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY2jLgOtwrc&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd10wif87Qk&fea... (tremendous propulsion and straight amazement included ;-)
Clearly showing the 7(or 8) oil pressure control solenoids that operate the various actuators. Effectively just like a modern autotrans, controlling it just requires these solenoids to be switched (and pwm's for the pressure control sols) to shift gears and engage clutches. The trick, is getting the timing right!!
Note the transmission control ecu is built into the box!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY2jLgOtwrc&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd10wif87Qk&fea... (tremendous propulsion and straight amazement included ;-)
Clearly showing the 7(or 8) oil pressure control solenoids that operate the various actuators. Effectively just like a modern autotrans, controlling it just requires these solenoids to be switched (and pwm's for the pressure control sols) to shift gears and engage clutches. The trick, is getting the timing right!!
Note the transmission control ecu is built into the box!
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 25th January 17:24
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