Letter to the council. Is it a bit harsh?
Discussion
I sent this today with regards to the roads. Its heavy, but is it OTT? Sent to Steve Tite, head of highways in Poole Council.
Hi Steve,
I'm sure you will have had many letters, emails and calls regarding the state of Pooles roads and pavements over the past months so i won't labour the regular topic of potholes and poor surfaces that you clearly can't be bothered to sort out. It is embarrassing though don't you think? This wont be the formal message your probably used to so don't expect any literary courtesy either. I'll just get to the point and be done without the trivia.
Firstly I'm going to drone on a bit about how utterly depressing this town has become for the driver and how this is mainly due to your lack of performance as a manager and collectively as a council. Ignoring the potholes and terrible road surfaces I've decided to focus on how the town is slowly crawling to a halt by the lack of sensible speed limits and poorly planned maintenance operations. I'll start with the new 50mph limit on the Dorset way.
Why is this necessary? I live just off the Ringwood road end of the Dorset way and to be honest i never see any accidents other than those caused by idiots coming down the hill from the BP garage too quickly and not indicating correctly. The only other accidents i see are those caused by people taking the roundabout at Tower Park too quickly and those taking the roundabout at English Ford too quickly. None of these can be linked to the actual speed limit being too high, more often than not they are caused by young drivers (or Chavs as the nation would call them) showing off or intentionally losing traction and getting into a 'drift' to show off to a mate. If its not this lot, who actually wont pay a single bit of notice to the new limit, then its the doddering, unsafe at the end of a pencil let alone a car, old person who probably shouldn't be on the road in the first place. Many a day Ive been driving home from Tower Park only to find the right hand lane blocked by a pensioner doing 30mph and weaving all over because they can't see past their windscreen. As a result people are forced to undertake and in the odd instance an accident will happen. Will the reduced limit solve this? Erm, no!
The argument that the limit had to be reduced due to the short slip roads etc is utter rubbish. Driver error is the problem there. Any other accident will undoubtedly be caused by said 'chav' showing off or manoeuvring unsafely and causing hazards as he / she goes or an elderly member of the community going about their daily business but forgetting that there is a world outside the window.
Having driven this new limit a dozen or so times now there appears now to be a new issue that you may not have thought of. On top of the obvious group of people who will pay no heed to the new limit there is the introduction of boredom. Mind numbing, sleep inducing, frustrating boredom. The journey along the new limit is approx 6 or 7 miles, or 7 or 8 minutes. That's a long time to be restricted on what feels like a national speed limit stretch of road. Your car doesn't feel comfortable at this speed, your brain doesn't feel comfortable at this speed and the frustration can build to cause hazards that would otherwise not have existed.
Cars are not geared to 'cruise' at 50mph either. They run at their most efficient at 56 - 65mph in top gear depending on the car, so any argument about reduced emissions is also utter rubbish. 50 mph in any car other than a 'micro' or 'town' car such as a Daewoo Matiz or Toyota Yaris will leave it confused in top gear, feeling underpowered and overworked. Try it in the next gear down and the engine will be running too high up the rev range for it to feel settled. This is where I'm assuming your going to make your money and get a big fat bonus (made up of my tax bill) at the end of the year. People will instinctively creep up to 60mph because the car feels Bette,r and bang, you'll have your £60 per head and the driver gets 3 points. Am i on the right track?
Ive got a clean license before you point the finger, thinking I'm after revenge for a previous ticket. Ive had a clean license for a long time too. I'm also a very well educated driver with most license categories under my belt and i drive cars which could see me banned in under 5 seconds of hard acceleration. With that i think I'm in a good position to judge this new limit as i believe it was intended. It is a way to make money out of the motorist, a way to fill the budget gap that is being expanded by pointless projects and expensive business lunches. And what better way? There are enough of us who use this stretch of road.
Yes there have been a couple of fatalities since the planning began for this project, but can you honestly say they would not have happened if the limit was 50mph instead of 70mph? I'd say not!
So as side from the new speed limit i also have issues with other speed limits. Why, if the Dorset way is 50mph, with only the usual slip roads you'd expect on a dual carriageway etc, is Gravel hill 60mph at the northern end despite the numerous junctions, laybys and school traffic? Doesn't make sense does it? People generally dint get above 40mp there to be honest but the 60mph limit is there. Think about it!
Then there are the terrible road maintenance teams who close a mile worth of dual carriageway down to a single lane so they can do some spurious works around the corner, and down a side street. Is this necessary? Why not just close off the bit they are working on? The traffic jam caused by this 'jobsworth' approach to traffic management from Tower Park to Ringwood Road last week was infuriating. The works weren't even on the Dorset way and yet it was closed down to one lane. I bet you don't even drive these roads.
I think that kind of makes my point. You can probably sense my discontent, but quite honestly it's not something im worried about hiding from the 'big scary council'. In actual fact i'd love a private consultation so i can discuss it in more detail and try to see your side of the argument.
That's pretty much it for this rant. Take from it what you will, you might just file it under 'bin'. Either way my opinions are echoed by hundreds of other drivers in the area and i'll be urging them to follow suit. Meanwhile i'll go back to dreading the experience of driving on Pooles roads and awaiting the increased fuel bills and damage repair bills caused by the number of unrepaired potholes and fragments of tarmac bouncing off the windscreen. I'm sure you won't have this issue as many council members i know live in suspiciously well maintained areas with silky smooth and often freshly laid tarmac to ease them home from another overpaid and under worked day in the office.
Yours,
A. Hacked-off. Driver
Hi Steve,
I'm sure you will have had many letters, emails and calls regarding the state of Pooles roads and pavements over the past months so i won't labour the regular topic of potholes and poor surfaces that you clearly can't be bothered to sort out. It is embarrassing though don't you think? This wont be the formal message your probably used to so don't expect any literary courtesy either. I'll just get to the point and be done without the trivia.
Firstly I'm going to drone on a bit about how utterly depressing this town has become for the driver and how this is mainly due to your lack of performance as a manager and collectively as a council. Ignoring the potholes and terrible road surfaces I've decided to focus on how the town is slowly crawling to a halt by the lack of sensible speed limits and poorly planned maintenance operations. I'll start with the new 50mph limit on the Dorset way.
Why is this necessary? I live just off the Ringwood road end of the Dorset way and to be honest i never see any accidents other than those caused by idiots coming down the hill from the BP garage too quickly and not indicating correctly. The only other accidents i see are those caused by people taking the roundabout at Tower Park too quickly and those taking the roundabout at English Ford too quickly. None of these can be linked to the actual speed limit being too high, more often than not they are caused by young drivers (or Chavs as the nation would call them) showing off or intentionally losing traction and getting into a 'drift' to show off to a mate. If its not this lot, who actually wont pay a single bit of notice to the new limit, then its the doddering, unsafe at the end of a pencil let alone a car, old person who probably shouldn't be on the road in the first place. Many a day Ive been driving home from Tower Park only to find the right hand lane blocked by a pensioner doing 30mph and weaving all over because they can't see past their windscreen. As a result people are forced to undertake and in the odd instance an accident will happen. Will the reduced limit solve this? Erm, no!
The argument that the limit had to be reduced due to the short slip roads etc is utter rubbish. Driver error is the problem there. Any other accident will undoubtedly be caused by said 'chav' showing off or manoeuvring unsafely and causing hazards as he / she goes or an elderly member of the community going about their daily business but forgetting that there is a world outside the window.
Having driven this new limit a dozen or so times now there appears now to be a new issue that you may not have thought of. On top of the obvious group of people who will pay no heed to the new limit there is the introduction of boredom. Mind numbing, sleep inducing, frustrating boredom. The journey along the new limit is approx 6 or 7 miles, or 7 or 8 minutes. That's a long time to be restricted on what feels like a national speed limit stretch of road. Your car doesn't feel comfortable at this speed, your brain doesn't feel comfortable at this speed and the frustration can build to cause hazards that would otherwise not have existed.
Cars are not geared to 'cruise' at 50mph either. They run at their most efficient at 56 - 65mph in top gear depending on the car, so any argument about reduced emissions is also utter rubbish. 50 mph in any car other than a 'micro' or 'town' car such as a Daewoo Matiz or Toyota Yaris will leave it confused in top gear, feeling underpowered and overworked. Try it in the next gear down and the engine will be running too high up the rev range for it to feel settled. This is where I'm assuming your going to make your money and get a big fat bonus (made up of my tax bill) at the end of the year. People will instinctively creep up to 60mph because the car feels Bette,r and bang, you'll have your £60 per head and the driver gets 3 points. Am i on the right track?
Ive got a clean license before you point the finger, thinking I'm after revenge for a previous ticket. Ive had a clean license for a long time too. I'm also a very well educated driver with most license categories under my belt and i drive cars which could see me banned in under 5 seconds of hard acceleration. With that i think I'm in a good position to judge this new limit as i believe it was intended. It is a way to make money out of the motorist, a way to fill the budget gap that is being expanded by pointless projects and expensive business lunches. And what better way? There are enough of us who use this stretch of road.
Yes there have been a couple of fatalities since the planning began for this project, but can you honestly say they would not have happened if the limit was 50mph instead of 70mph? I'd say not!
So as side from the new speed limit i also have issues with other speed limits. Why, if the Dorset way is 50mph, with only the usual slip roads you'd expect on a dual carriageway etc, is Gravel hill 60mph at the northern end despite the numerous junctions, laybys and school traffic? Doesn't make sense does it? People generally dint get above 40mp there to be honest but the 60mph limit is there. Think about it!
Then there are the terrible road maintenance teams who close a mile worth of dual carriageway down to a single lane so they can do some spurious works around the corner, and down a side street. Is this necessary? Why not just close off the bit they are working on? The traffic jam caused by this 'jobsworth' approach to traffic management from Tower Park to Ringwood Road last week was infuriating. The works weren't even on the Dorset way and yet it was closed down to one lane. I bet you don't even drive these roads.
I think that kind of makes my point. You can probably sense my discontent, but quite honestly it's not something im worried about hiding from the 'big scary council'. In actual fact i'd love a private consultation so i can discuss it in more detail and try to see your side of the argument.
That's pretty much it for this rant. Take from it what you will, you might just file it under 'bin'. Either way my opinions are echoed by hundreds of other drivers in the area and i'll be urging them to follow suit. Meanwhile i'll go back to dreading the experience of driving on Pooles roads and awaiting the increased fuel bills and damage repair bills caused by the number of unrepaired potholes and fragments of tarmac bouncing off the windscreen. I'm sure you won't have this issue as many council members i know live in suspiciously well maintained areas with silky smooth and often freshly laid tarmac to ease them home from another overpaid and under worked day in the office.
Yours,
A. Hacked-off. Driver
Im guessing you were annoyed when you wrote that then?! Its worth it if it makes you feel better, but deep down you know it wont make any difference. This is a democracy after all, so even if everyone in Poole writes to him, nothing will change!!
You would be better off getting a vigilante group together to keep removing the repeater signs during the hours of darkness!!
TJR
You would be better off getting a vigilante group together to keep removing the repeater signs during the hours of darkness!!
TJR
They will of course ignore it, if you let them.
Next thing to do is to get a group of like-minded objectors together and attend the next council meeting personally. They should hold them regularly.
They usually allow the public to raise issues prior to the formal meeting, at which point you can ask what the procedure was for implementing the new limit. Be quick, you'll be given only a few minutes and they will have a stopwatch (I'm not kidding!).
Ask them:
(a) To acknowledge your letter
(b) Who instigated the survey into the revised speed limits, and for what reason
(c) Who did the survey
(d) What the survey results were
(e) How and when the decision was made to implement the change
(f) If they followed any previously laid-down procedures in implementing it
If you can't find any chinks in the armor after asking these and other similar questions, then it's game over I'm afraid. If they did it all by the book according to government guidelines then there's nothing anyone can do.
However, if you find flaws in their process it's time to write to the local press and/or try to appeal the decision, again via official means.
Above all, keep it official and by the book and leave emotion in the pub.
Good luck!
ps. don't bother with a petition. Only lots of unique and personal letters to the officials hold any sway, and keep copies.
Next thing to do is to get a group of like-minded objectors together and attend the next council meeting personally. They should hold them regularly.
They usually allow the public to raise issues prior to the formal meeting, at which point you can ask what the procedure was for implementing the new limit. Be quick, you'll be given only a few minutes and they will have a stopwatch (I'm not kidding!).
Ask them:
(a) To acknowledge your letter
(b) Who instigated the survey into the revised speed limits, and for what reason
(c) Who did the survey
(d) What the survey results were
(e) How and when the decision was made to implement the change
(f) If they followed any previously laid-down procedures in implementing it
If you can't find any chinks in the armor after asking these and other similar questions, then it's game over I'm afraid. If they did it all by the book according to government guidelines then there's nothing anyone can do.
However, if you find flaws in their process it's time to write to the local press and/or try to appeal the decision, again via official means.
Above all, keep it official and by the book and leave emotion in the pub.
Good luck!
ps. don't bother with a petition. Only lots of unique and personal letters to the officials hold any sway, and keep copies.
I agree it'll probably get absolutely no response other than to raise or a smile or two in the office, which is a shame as like you I drive this road regularly; but I can see why they've done it. I'm not saying I like it in the slightest, but the fatalities you mention in your letter is enough for them to review the speed limit, and I would be surprised if it doesn't have the desired effect.
If you look at the holes bay road, there were a fair few nasty accidents and fatalities on that road until they reduced the limit and although it's now boring as hell to drive down, the number of serious accidents on that road since the revised speed limit must be very near to zero (I don't have the stats) but having worked alongside the road for a few years it certainly seemed a safer place to commute.
As I said I'm not an advocate of stupidly low speed limits on these types of roads, but I can see their justification. If it's any consolation it's not as though any of these are 'drivers roads', to enjoy them you'd have to be well above the speed limit, so the new rules make little to no difference to that anyway!
Good on you for voicing your opinion though, something that's not done enough in this country in my opinion!
If you look at the holes bay road, there were a fair few nasty accidents and fatalities on that road until they reduced the limit and although it's now boring as hell to drive down, the number of serious accidents on that road since the revised speed limit must be very near to zero (I don't have the stats) but having worked alongside the road for a few years it certainly seemed a safer place to commute.
As I said I'm not an advocate of stupidly low speed limits on these types of roads, but I can see their justification. If it's any consolation it's not as though any of these are 'drivers roads', to enjoy them you'd have to be well above the speed limit, so the new rules make little to no difference to that anyway!
Good on you for voicing your opinion though, something that's not done enough in this country in my opinion!
Good for you for writing it and I tend to agree with most everything written by most of the people here so far too. As Matc says good on you writing it. there needs to be more of us writing to our representatives as that's what they are supposed to be, representatives of us the people who vote for them to do the things we want of them. Funny how as soon as someone gets some power they seem to forget what they are there for and start to dictate to us what we are to do and fine us if we don't tow their line.
Oh lordy I need to stop before I get on a soap box too LOL
Well done!
Oh lordy I need to stop before I get on a soap box too LOL
Well done!
Nice one, if you are passionate about something then always best to air your views, if nothing else it will make you feel less stressed!
Couple of things though, you almost apologise for having a "rant", in your own words. I wouldn't do that, it gives them an excuse to say " see, even he thinks he is ranting". Its just a strong opinion forcibly said, you are being loud, so be proud as well
At the start of the fourth paragraph you say " As side", I think you meant to say "aside"?
And change the "hundreds agreeing" to "thousands agreeing", be confident most motorists are on your side, I know I am.
Couple of things though, you almost apologise for having a "rant", in your own words. I wouldn't do that, it gives them an excuse to say " see, even he thinks he is ranting". Its just a strong opinion forcibly said, you are being loud, so be proud as well
At the start of the fourth paragraph you say " As side", I think you meant to say "aside"?
And change the "hundreds agreeing" to "thousands agreeing", be confident most motorists are on your side, I know I am.
Looking back over it I see your point about the way its worded, but there are always things you can change about these things. It was sent in the heat of passion so I don't really mind. I don't expect him to respond but it did make me feel better. Guess I'll just have to start getting over to Hampshire more often.
ecain63 said:
Looking back over it I see your point about the way its worded, but there are always things you can change about these things. It was sent in the heat of passion so I don't really mind. I don't expect him to respond but it did make me feel better. Guess I'll just have to start getting over to Hampshire more often.
Oh yeah, cause Hampshire's the spiritual home of the sensibly set speed limit, lol.Good letter though, but most county highways people seem to really hate cars, and think low speed limits are the answer to any road problem.
Well, would you 'Adam & Eve' it? I only got a bloody response from said Mr Tite!
Mr xxxxx
Thanks for your e-mail and believe me I have no problems with the lack of literary courtesy.
I’ll endeavour to keep responses short and to the point :
50 mph limit on Dorset Way / Canford Way.
· I totally accept your point that some reckless drivers will continue to totally ignore any speed limit along here. However the majority of drivers do adhere to the limit and so I’ve no problems in our endeavours to get this right.
· As Highway Authority we need to be able to demonstrate that we have followed the national guidance ( whether we agree with it on a personal level or not ) in setting limits in order to be open to public scrutiny. While I can understand that you are from a viewpoint that would wish us to set higher speed limits, I can assure you that there is an equal pressure from those who would want us to set even lower limits. Such is the lot of a Council – we can never please everyone !
· Accepting that this doesn’t give us cart blanch to set artificially low limits, research has shown that each 1 mph reduction in average speeds reduces accident frequency by 5%.
· I am not convinced that you will believe me but this has absolutely nothing to do with the raising of revenue from speeding fines but everything to do with the setting of the correct speed limit for a particular road. The Council gain nothing whatsoever financially from the issuing of speeding tickets – this goes directly to the government.
· The police are also party to setting limits, and in this respect they themselves would object if the limits were set too low because it presents them with an unsustainable position with regards to enforcement.
· I would say that a 50 mph limit on these roads is compatible with other urban dual carriageways such as Holes Bay Road, Upton By Pass
( approaching Holes Bay ) and the majority of Wessex Way in Bournemouth
Condition of Roads / Potholes
· I do not accept that we ‘can’t be bothered’ to sort out potholes and poor surfaces. Of course we would like to do better but the reality is we have to work within the limited budgets available – both for actually doing the work and staff to inspect ( I am sure you would agree that three staff covering the whole borough is not excessive )
· While you are perfectly entitled to your opinion with regards to our roads I would have to say that your view is not necessarily shared on a wider basis. Along with most councils across the country Poole takes part in a totally independent (MORI) public satisfaction survey based on a significant sample of the population to compare our performance with others. With regards to roads and pavements Poole was the top performing Urban unitary authority, on condition of highways we were third. This is what the public themselves are saying, not some internally generated result
Signing and Guarding for Roadworks.
· While the closure of complete lanes to protect the workforce may seem excessive, from a traffic management perspective this is far less disruptive than moving short lengths of closure along the road as work progresses.
· I have no problem at all in defending measures that are there for the safety of the workforce. I can assure the perspective of vehicles travelling at 50 mph is very different standing by the side of the road as opposed to being within the protection of a passing vehicle.
Other
· I nor any other staff get a ‘big fat bonus’ based on income or otherwise
· Council members ( or staff for that matter ) do not get ‘preferential’ treatment for road resurfacing
I sense that your views are well established on these matters and that this e-mail is regrettably therefore unlikely to change these - but I can only try !
Steve Tite
Mr xxxxx
Thanks for your e-mail and believe me I have no problems with the lack of literary courtesy.
I’ll endeavour to keep responses short and to the point :
50 mph limit on Dorset Way / Canford Way.
· I totally accept your point that some reckless drivers will continue to totally ignore any speed limit along here. However the majority of drivers do adhere to the limit and so I’ve no problems in our endeavours to get this right.
· As Highway Authority we need to be able to demonstrate that we have followed the national guidance ( whether we agree with it on a personal level or not ) in setting limits in order to be open to public scrutiny. While I can understand that you are from a viewpoint that would wish us to set higher speed limits, I can assure you that there is an equal pressure from those who would want us to set even lower limits. Such is the lot of a Council – we can never please everyone !
· Accepting that this doesn’t give us cart blanch to set artificially low limits, research has shown that each 1 mph reduction in average speeds reduces accident frequency by 5%.
· I am not convinced that you will believe me but this has absolutely nothing to do with the raising of revenue from speeding fines but everything to do with the setting of the correct speed limit for a particular road. The Council gain nothing whatsoever financially from the issuing of speeding tickets – this goes directly to the government.
· The police are also party to setting limits, and in this respect they themselves would object if the limits were set too low because it presents them with an unsustainable position with regards to enforcement.
· I would say that a 50 mph limit on these roads is compatible with other urban dual carriageways such as Holes Bay Road, Upton By Pass
( approaching Holes Bay ) and the majority of Wessex Way in Bournemouth
Condition of Roads / Potholes
· I do not accept that we ‘can’t be bothered’ to sort out potholes and poor surfaces. Of course we would like to do better but the reality is we have to work within the limited budgets available – both for actually doing the work and staff to inspect ( I am sure you would agree that three staff covering the whole borough is not excessive )
· While you are perfectly entitled to your opinion with regards to our roads I would have to say that your view is not necessarily shared on a wider basis. Along with most councils across the country Poole takes part in a totally independent (MORI) public satisfaction survey based on a significant sample of the population to compare our performance with others. With regards to roads and pavements Poole was the top performing Urban unitary authority, on condition of highways we were third. This is what the public themselves are saying, not some internally generated result
Signing and Guarding for Roadworks.
· While the closure of complete lanes to protect the workforce may seem excessive, from a traffic management perspective this is far less disruptive than moving short lengths of closure along the road as work progresses.
· I have no problem at all in defending measures that are there for the safety of the workforce. I can assure the perspective of vehicles travelling at 50 mph is very different standing by the side of the road as opposed to being within the protection of a passing vehicle.
Other
· I nor any other staff get a ‘big fat bonus’ based on income or otherwise
· Council members ( or staff for that matter ) do not get ‘preferential’ treatment for road resurfacing
I sense that your views are well established on these matters and that this e-mail is regrettably therefore unlikely to change these - but I can only try !
Steve Tite
Fair play to him for responding, he did make some good points, but was very defensive in his wording; he clearly believes that they're working for the greater good....and as much as it pains me to say it, with regards to the reduced limits on this particular road I have to agree with him.
IMO it's stupid little slip roads, crap surface and volume of traffic are all to blame for the number of accidents on it, but rather than invest millions to remedy this, they can simply reduce the limit and spend the money elsewhere....hopefully on repairing some of the other crap roads in our county!
IMO it's stupid little slip roads, crap surface and volume of traffic are all to blame for the number of accidents on it, but rather than invest millions to remedy this, they can simply reduce the limit and spend the money elsewhere....hopefully on repairing some of the other crap roads in our county!
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