The story so far
Discussion
After taking the engine out for clean up and new clutch,
And refitting
rebuilding front suspension,
lifting the body for outrigger surgery,
now I am at the last step--------new carpets
Just started to pull the old carpets out and scraping off the glued on underlay. I have plenty of new underlay to fit back in with spray on glue, but I still haven't decided on carpet colour.
I think I am leaning towards red with cream piping. Or cream with red piping, or
can't decide.
Anyway, my project of making front suspension arms will go on hold until I get interior finished. Been off the road since the end of October and plan is to be back at the end of Feb.
Had loads of fun
working out spring strength on front coilovers. Initially 350lbs springs, totally squashed them, 450lb, squashed to within an inch of their life ( well half inch literally ).
So with only 3" of available travel, allowing for 1" static sag and 2" suspension movement, I needed 900lb springs with 1" of preload. I read on a COBRA forum that 800lb on front of them was a good fit
I should have bought longer shocks which would have allowed more sag with less spring strength. Live and learn
And refitting
rebuilding front suspension,
lifting the body for outrigger surgery,
now I am at the last step--------new carpets
Just started to pull the old carpets out and scraping off the glued on underlay. I have plenty of new underlay to fit back in with spray on glue, but I still haven't decided on carpet colour.
I think I am leaning towards red with cream piping. Or cream with red piping, or
can't decide.Anyway, my project of making front suspension arms will go on hold until I get interior finished. Been off the road since the end of October and plan is to be back at the end of Feb.
Had loads of fun
working out spring strength on front coilovers. Initially 350lbs springs, totally squashed them, 450lb, squashed to within an inch of their life ( well half inch literally ). So with only 3" of available travel, allowing for 1" static sag and 2" suspension movement, I needed 900lb springs with 1" of preload. I read on a COBRA forum that 800lb on front of them was a good fit
I should have bought longer shocks which would have allowed more sag with less spring strength. Live and learn
Edited by TOPTON on Sunday 23 January 22:06
Hello mate..Red carpet to match car..Black or cream mats..Why have you got a pipe going to your K&N..Surely it would be better with an air pipe or induction pipe coming off where the K&N is and placing the K&N down at the front near the grill..Im sure any pipe bringing in cold air to a K&N should be 4" away and not right on it?..Looking good man..zig
Comadis said:
900lbs?????? as you are using coilovers, i hope you strengthened the chassis also the lower wishbone to resist this load.
if you have choosen a damper which is too short you cant compensate it with stiffer coils.
Top mount altered and strengthened, lower arm fitted with 50mm x 10mm bracket welded into position. if you have choosen a damper which is too short you cant compensate it with stiffer coils.
The car now sits with 2" wheel arch clearance and 2" suspension travel. That's 2" more than it had before as it was sitting on the bump stops when i got it. So basically I had zero suspension before.
It may turn out to be far too stiff as is, worse case scenario, I need to buy longer coilovers with a softer spring.
As mentioned earlier. I was reading a cobra forum where the standard fit spring was 450-500lb, but someone fitted 800lb front springs and the ride was much more comfortable.
wooly350i said:
Hi Toptun,are you using the same underlay that came out,if so any idea what its called and thickness etc,is it the multi coloured stuff about 3/4inch thick,if so where can it be bought,cheers,John
I am using 12mm underlay that would be fitted in ya house. It is very soft and will give a nice feel, my bedroom carpet does anyway (just ask the mrs). mrzigazaga said:
Hello mate..Red carpet to match car..Black or cream mats..Why have you got a pipe going to your K&N..Surely it would be better with an air pipe or induction pipe coming off where the K&N is and placing the K&N down at the front near the grill..Im sure any pipe bringing in cold air to a K&N should be 4" away and not right on it?..Looking good man..zig
Hi mr Z, I like the idea of red but not sure if it will be too much once its in. I suppose cream overmats would split it up a bit. RE AIR PIPE,
when I got the car last year, it didn't have a filter on it all. The pipe was connected to the AFM, going down to under the front valance with a pair of woman's tights over the end. (used or unused
I don't know)I put the pipe back in to see what it looked like-----It is no linger there. T
"I was reading a cobra forum where the standard fit spring was 450-500lb, but someone fitted 800lb front springs and the ride was much more comfortable."
the ride will be never more comfortable with sturdier springs.that info is bullsh.t.
it seems, reading this forum, that this coilover conversions differ on every car converted. the original construction is not bad...there is no necessity for coilovers in normal use (road and maybe a trackday here and there).
the ride will be never more comfortable with sturdier springs.that info is bullsh.t.
it seems, reading this forum, that this coilover conversions differ on every car converted. the original construction is not bad...there is no necessity for coilovers in normal use (road and maybe a trackday here and there).
TOPTON said:
JR said:
TOPTON said:
It may turn out to be far too stiff as is,
It's only about six times stiffer than when it left the factory and at the firmer end of the spring ratings that the Wedge racers used...
[quote=Comadis
the ride will be never more comfortable with sturdier springs.that info is bullsh.t.
it seems, reading this forum, that this coilover conversions differ on every car converted. the original construction is not bad...there is no necessity for coilovers in normal use (road and maybe a trackday here and there).
]
[/quote]
'If' lesser springs were allowing too much movement then fitting heavier ones will give a more comfortable/sturdier/controllable ride.
Coilover conversion differs on every car, you are correct because the angle/support point of the damper may not be the same.
The original construction is 25 odd years old in its design, If it was that good Ford would still be using it. However I do agree it is not a necessity, more of a want for most that do it.
When I bought my car last year, it had already been converted (read-bodged, not very well done strenght wise) so I had no choice in the matter.
My mistake, which is easily rectifiable, was when ordering dampers/springs I didn't allow/realise I needed as much static sag and use pre load.
I should have perhaps bought dampers with 5" travel, fitted with 400lb springs with 3" sag, still giving 2" suspension.
My suspension learning mistake may cost me a couple of hundred if I don't like it like it
the ride will be never more comfortable with sturdier springs.that info is bullsh.t.
it seems, reading this forum, that this coilover conversions differ on every car converted. the original construction is not bad...there is no necessity for coilovers in normal use (road and maybe a trackday here and there).
]
[/quote]
'If' lesser springs were allowing too much movement then fitting heavier ones will give a more comfortable/sturdier/controllable ride.
Coilover conversion differs on every car, you are correct because the angle/support point of the damper may not be the same.
The original construction is 25 odd years old in its design, If it was that good Ford would still be using it. However I do agree it is not a necessity, more of a want for most that do it.
When I bought my car last year, it had already been converted (read-bodged, not very well done strenght wise) so I had no choice in the matter.
My mistake, which is easily rectifiable, was when ordering dampers/springs I didn't allow/realise I needed as much static sag and use pre load.
I should have perhaps bought dampers with 5" travel, fitted with 400lb springs with 3" sag, still giving 2" suspension.
My suspension learning mistake may cost me a couple of hundred if I don't like it like it
Comadis said:
the ride will be never more comfortable with sturdier springs.that info is bullsh.t.
Quite right.TOPTON said:
'If' lesser springs were allowing too much movement then fitting heavier ones will give a more comfortable
No chance.TOPTON said:
My suspension learning mistake may cost me a couple of hundred if I don't like it like it
Unless you intend to use your car for track day only I'd consider cutting your losses sooner rather than later.Surely the correct rate for the springs depends upon the distance to the pivot point.
If the pivot point remains the same springs are effectively moved out further towards the wheels then a weaker spring will suit.
At the limit, put the springs under the tyres directly and the sum of the four spring strengths should just stop the springs binding when on maximum bump.
Let's do the maths with round figures to make it easy.
Car weighs 1000Kg evenly distributed to all four wheels, that's 250Kg for each spring. Assume a bump of double the car's weight so that becomes 500Kg per spring. 500Kg == 2250lbs.
But spring strengths are measured per inch so the actual travel is important, how far does the wheel travel during the bump/rewind cycle? Let's assume 8 inches to keep the maths simple.
2250 divided by 8 is 281 - this figure is very simplified because it assumes no preload on the spring and only a single pivot point.
In this example then a spring rate of 281 is the minimum needed so as the spring moves further towards the pivot the required rate will go up, halve the distance, halve the spring travel and double the rate - simples.
But you need to know all of the dimensions before you can compare different setups so a standard TVR wedge will need different springs than a standard Golf. A coilover conversion will need different rates than a standard setup unless the pivot distance to the centre of the spring is the same.
There is also the distortion of the spring to take into account, if it isn't working symetrically then the spring needs to be a different weight. Also beware of the inner edges of the coils binding.
Russ
If the pivot point remains the same springs are effectively moved out further towards the wheels then a weaker spring will suit.
At the limit, put the springs under the tyres directly and the sum of the four spring strengths should just stop the springs binding when on maximum bump.
Let's do the maths with round figures to make it easy.
Car weighs 1000Kg evenly distributed to all four wheels, that's 250Kg for each spring. Assume a bump of double the car's weight so that becomes 500Kg per spring. 500Kg == 2250lbs.
But spring strengths are measured per inch so the actual travel is important, how far does the wheel travel during the bump/rewind cycle? Let's assume 8 inches to keep the maths simple.
2250 divided by 8 is 281 - this figure is very simplified because it assumes no preload on the spring and only a single pivot point.
In this example then a spring rate of 281 is the minimum needed so as the spring moves further towards the pivot the required rate will go up, halve the distance, halve the spring travel and double the rate - simples.
But you need to know all of the dimensions before you can compare different setups so a standard TVR wedge will need different springs than a standard Golf. A coilover conversion will need different rates than a standard setup unless the pivot distance to the centre of the spring is the same.
There is also the distortion of the spring to take into account, if it isn't working symetrically then the spring needs to be a different weight. Also beware of the inner edges of the coils binding.
Russ
E Ponym said:
Let's do the maths with round figures to make it easy.
Car weighs 1000Kg evenly distributed to all four wheels, that's 250Kg for each spring. Assume a bump of double the car's weight so that becomes 500Kg per spring. 500Kg == 2250lbs.
Russ
If only they weighed 1000Kg and was a 50/50 split, so you would need to get the exact figures.Car weighs 1000Kg evenly distributed to all four wheels, that's 250Kg for each spring. Assume a bump of double the car's weight so that becomes 500Kg per spring. 500Kg == 2250lbs.
Russ
Once I get some spare time, I will measure my (98% standard) 400SE on corner weights, as there does seem to be a lot of varying info.
Hi topton
Thanks for your update regarding all the things you have managed to do so far on your motor (quiet a lot so far).
Some are prepared to walk the walk not just talk, which makes all the difference.
Words mean jack, you need to try out what you have completed to see for yourself , keep us updated.
Regards the carpet/underlay I used the spray glue from B&Q, not great as some places coming away and need sticking down again, so something better needed.
As for the colour of the carpets - red with a light leather piping (but a red that you can live with)
HOTTY
Thanks for your update regarding all the things you have managed to do so far on your motor (quiet a lot so far).
Some are prepared to walk the walk not just talk, which makes all the difference.
Words mean jack, you need to try out what you have completed to see for yourself , keep us updated.
Regards the carpet/underlay I used the spray glue from B&Q, not great as some places coming away and need sticking down again, so something better needed.
As for the colour of the carpets - red with a light leather piping (but a red that you can live with)
HOTTY
JR said:
Comadis said:
the ride will be never more comfortable with sturdier springs.that info is bullsh.t.
Quite right.TOPTON said:
'If' lesser springs were allowing too much movement then fitting heavier ones will give a more comfortable
No chance.Why not????? Surely if a car is bouncing around/bottoming out on too soft a spring, then surely stiffening sed spring will alter the ride to less bounce. (more comfortable)
TOPTON said:
My suspension learning mistake may cost me a couple of hundred if I don't like it like it
Unless you intend to use your car for track day only I'd consider cutting your losses sooner rather than later.I asked on here back in November for spring rate help and got zero replies
so I had to try and figure things on my own
As I have said, I bought the car sitting on its bump stops with no suspensin at all and drove it around for X number of months like that.
I am prepared to change things in the future, I hold my hands up to my mistake. But having any suspension is better than none at all as before.
I made a boo boo
but its easily fixable and I can live with thatHOTTY said:
Hi topton
Thanks for your update regarding all the things you have managed to do so far on your motor (quiet a lot so far).
Some are prepared to walk the walk not just talk, which makes all the difference.
Words mean jack, you need to try out what you have completed to see for yourself , keep us updated.
Regards the carpet/underlay I used the spray glue from B&Q, not great as some places coming away and need sticking down again, so something better needed.
As for the colour of the carpets - red with a light leather piping (but a red that you can live with)
HOTTY
Cheers HOTTY, I am going to get it MOT'd as is and work from thereThanks for your update regarding all the things you have managed to do so far on your motor (quiet a lot so far).
Some are prepared to walk the walk not just talk, which makes all the difference.
Words mean jack, you need to try out what you have completed to see for yourself , keep us updated.
Regards the carpet/underlay I used the spray glue from B&Q, not great as some places coming away and need sticking down again, so something better needed.
As for the colour of the carpets - red with a light leather piping (but a red that you can live with)
HOTTY
The last time I fitted new carpets in my S2 a few years ago, IIRC I used 2 different spray glue cans. One was dearer I think, because it was higher temp resistant for around the exhaust area
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