Do we have freedom of speech?

[AJI]

In the UK do we actually have ‘freedom of speech’?
The wikipedia link summarises what ‘freedom of speech’ is but are the ‘limitations’ mentioned much more repressive than we are lead to believe?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

Its clear that if one is public speaking then surely the limitations are justified, as one should not be allowed to insight hatred and the like. (Or should we? – definitions on this area can be tricky)
But, what if in private conversation? Are we free to speak about what we want in private conversation?

In light of the recent footballer commentator fiasco on SKY TV this brought up the question. Put aside the rights or wrongs of what they actually said for one moment, as the content is not important to this thread, and basically their private conversation has been leaked and made public. And now they will inevitably pay some sort of ‘penalty’ as a result.

And now what about the situation whereby two people are in a car park and they have a disagreement in which words are exchanged (again a private conversation in which no 3rd party has been invited to enter), and some comments are overheard by a 3rd party in which they take offence. They take the matter to the police and the ‘offenders’ are prosecuted. Is this right?

To take it further, what about two people arguing inside the walls of their own house and a 3rd party again overhears something they don’t like?
(And what if they use a listening device in order to hear/record such words?)

You can see where I am going with this….. is freedom of speech just a term used to keep the population feeling ‘free’?




p.s.
just for the record, my own view is that females have every right to be linesmen/linespersons than the next person, assuming they are just as qualified and able. (But this is not meant to be the topic of discussion in this thread).




edited to add the wiki link

Edited by AJI on Monday 24th January 14:42

[AshVX220]

I think the problem in this country is that we aren't allowed to have or express an opinion that is in anyway against what is considered to be PC.

[AndrewW-G]

The answer is a potentialy racist, only if your not caucasian or of a none traditional sexuality e.g.loony koran burner from USA not allowed to visit / speak, but anti UK / West lunatics are.

[AshVX220]

That's something that really frustrates me, we will bend over backwards to accomodate people that would gladly see us and our way of life wiped off the earth. But will do nothing to defend the nations core values or beliefs.

[Dr Imran T]

Of course we have freedom of speech as long as it is within certain constraints. One should not criticise the government in a key areas especially if the repercussions can be hugely significant.

It is a shame Dr David Kelly isn't about to answer this one

[Bing o]

Can someone point out where we have freedom of speech enshrined in our constitution?




(Clue, you'll have to find the constitution first...)

[AJI]

Bing o said:

Can someone point out where we have freedom of speech enshrined in our constitution?




(Clue, you'll have to find the constitution first...)

Is this not stated in the wiki link (2nd paragraph):

"The right to freedom of speech is recognized as a human right under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and recognized in international human rights law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). The ICCPR recognizes the right to freedom of speech as "the right to hold opinions without interference. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression." Furthermore freedom of speech is recognized in European, inter-American and African regional human rights law."

[boredofmyoldname]

AshVX220 said:

I think the problem in this country is that we aren't allowed to have or express an opinion that is in anyway against what is considered to be PC.

Pretty much sums it up in a nutshell.

I was sat at the launch of a government fund at the end of last year, a slightly hairy lentil eater represents LGBT people asked if any of the money was set aside for minorities. She got very pissed off when told repeatedly the money was to be allocated fairly amongst those with the best applications, her anger was shared by someone representing BME groups.

I found it hard not to chuckle at their blinkered approach to life.

[jeff m]

What might work is to make it illegal for politicians and the makers of Cheddar Cheese to lie.

To Politicians I would add any person associated with them, employed by them etc etc.

I just added Cheddar 'cos I'm currently in the States and they do not appear to have a trade description act of any sort
So the freedom to refer to anything yellow as cheddar is definately a right I would like to see curtailed.

[carmonk]

AshVX220 said:

That's something that really frustrates me, we will bend over backwards to accomodate people that would gladly see us and our way of life wiped off the earth. But will do nothing to defend the nations core values or beliefs.

Not only that but anyone who tries is a racist.

[anonymous-user]

I'm fed up of these ever so offended 'we don't have freedom of speech but foreigners do' brigade. You’re just boring, pathetic and all other low self esteem words associated with you. What the foreigners can say they get hounded for, what you can't say you bh about. No what is fair and who is not?

Freedom of speech is the freedom to say whatever you want however with it comes a lot of responsibility. It is not a licence to be as offensive as possible.

I've always maintained that many who profess that they are denied freedom of speech have not got anything worthwhile to say anyway.

Now back to the OP question I think we do but must learn to use it responsibly (some can argue Dr Kelly was using it in an irresponsible fashion hence the consequences).

[carmonk]

The irony at least is worth a chuckle.

[MX7]

The Keys and Grey incident seems to be a very flimsy basis for a thread like this. Has there been any suggestion that they are going to be prosecuted?

[drivin_me_nuts]

carmonk said:

AshVX220 said:

That's something that really frustrates me, we will bend over backwards to accomodate people that would gladly see us and our way of life wiped off the earth. But will do nothing to defend the nations core values or beliefs.

Not only that but anyone who tries is a racist.

Perhaps therein lies something about the erosion of national identity. Are there any definable quality that an 'Englishman' today is expected to have, or is infact taught to identify with. Core values and beliefs ... what are they? I am genuinely interested to know what people interpret these as being. From the way I understand it, to believe, you first have to believe you belong...

As for FoS, I think we do have a enviable level of freedom of speech - many others throughout the world give their lives up in the persuit of what we have. . Within reason we can say pretty much what we like without fear of men in masks turning up on on doorstep and midnight taking us away, or being shot dead in the street for questioning the words of the religious leader of the time. I think we are very lucky indeed and throughout history, if we have learned anything at all, it's that we paid a very heavy price for this freedom and we should fight every step of the way, those who would dare think they could take it away from us.

[anonymous-user]

Judging by whats going on here http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... we have some freedom of speech up to a certain point where things then tend to get a bit vague. Haven't quite worked it out yet but it's giving me a queasy feeling in the guts.

[B Huey]

boredofmyoldname said:

AshVX220 said:

I think the problem in this country is that we aren't allowed to have or express an opinion that is in anyway against what is considered to be PC.

Pretty much sums it up in a nutshell.

I was sat at the launch of a government fund at the end of last year, a slightly hairy lentil eater represents LGBT people asked if any of the money was set aside for minorities. She got very pissed off when told repeatedly the money was to be allocated fairly amongst those with the best applications, her anger was shared by someone representing BME groups.

I found it hard not to chuckle at their blinkered approach to life.

You can say whatever you like, but other people have the right to disagree with you. That's what some don't understand about freedom of speech.

[youngsyr]

B Huey said:

boredofmyoldname said:

AshVX220 said:

I think the problem in this country is that we aren't allowed to have or express an opinion that is in anyway against what is considered to be PC.

Pretty much sums it up in a nutshell.

I was sat at the launch of a government fund at the end of last year, a slightly hairy lentil eater represents LGBT people asked if any of the money was set aside for minorities. She got very pissed off when told repeatedly the money was to be allocated fairly amongst those with the best applications, her anger was shared by someone representing BME groups.

I found it hard not to chuckle at their blinkered approach to life.

You can say whatever you like, but other people have the right to disagree with you. That's what some don't understand about freedom of speech.

Try going up to the next police officer you see and calling him a "see you next Tuesday" (doesn't really work in text, that, does it?!) and see how far your freedom of speech gets you then!

[Pork]

AshVX220 said:

I think the problem in this country is that we aren't allowed to have or express an opinion that is in anyway against what is considered to be PC.

Am I the only one who finds it refrheshing when someone does express an opinion?

It doesnt happen often now, but every now and then someone says something and you think "its what we're all thinking, he's just got bigger stones/less shame". It can be about absolutely anything too, from a scruffy bugger, to a queue jumper, to a loud youth, to an inconsiderately parked person....anything. Generally, people are afraid to upset others to the point that we'll soon be a society where you'll fear interaction with others, through fear of offending someone. Suck it up.

[carmonk]

drivin_me_nuts said:

carmonk said:

AshVX220 said:

That's something that really frustrates me, we will bend over backwards to accomodate people that would gladly see us and our way of life wiped off the earth. But will do nothing to defend the nations core values or beliefs.

Not only that but anyone who tries is a racist.

Perhaps therein lies something about the erosion of national identity. Are there any definable quality that an 'Englishman' today is expected to have, or is infact taught to identify with. Core values and beliefs ... what are they? I am genuinely interested to know what people interpret these as being. From the way I understand it, to believe, you first have to believe you belong...

I could try listing some attributes but they'd only be challenged and picked apart, perhaps rightly, because I think it's a case of knowing it when you see it. And knowing what's not it when you see that too. It's like what makes a person beautiful or ugly - very difficult to describe in words yet broadly obvious on an individual basis.

drivin_me_nuts said:

As for FoS, I think we do have a enviable level of freedom of speech - many others throughout the world give their lives up in the persuit of what we have. . Within reason we can say pretty much what we like without fear of men in masks turning up on on doorstep and midnight taking us away, or being shot dead in the street for questioning the words of the religious leader of the time. I think we are very lucky indeed and throughout history, if we have learned anything at all, it's that we paid a very heavy price for this freedom and we should fight every step of the way, those who would dare think they could take it away from us.

Legally we do have comparatively high freedoms of speech, socially less so. How many times has someone had to resign because of some silly inconsidered remark or joke, or branded 'a racist' because they failed to consider the implications of some obscure, microscopic nuance when expressing a perfectly valid viewpoint?

Edited by carmonk on Monday 24th January 20:06

[EDLT]

youngsyr said:

B Huey said:

boredofmyoldname said:

AshVX220 said:

I think the problem in this country is that we aren't allowed to have or express an opinion that is in anyway against what is considered to be PC.

Pretty much sums it up in a nutshell.

I was sat at the launch of a government fund at the end of last year, a slightly hairy lentil eater represents LGBT people asked if any of the money was set aside for minorities. She got very pissed off when told repeatedly the money was to be allocated fairly amongst those with the best applications, her anger was shared by someone representing BME groups.

I found it hard not to chuckle at their blinkered approach to life.

You can say whatever you like, but other people have the right to disagree with you. That's what some don't understand about freedom of speech.

Try going up to the next police officer you see and calling him a "see you next Tuesday" (doesn't really work in text, that, does it?!) and see how far your freedom of speech gets you then!

I can't think of many countries where you'd get away with it, our police may just give you a verbal warning (unless you are being a drunken nob/student "protester") and a chance to walk away. Anywhere else you'd get tasered/beaten/arrested.