Wading a V8 RRC...?

[Mike_C]

Hi all,

I have a standard Range Rover Classic 3.9 V8 Vogue SE, which I am very much enjoying - despite it testing my patience at times!

I have signed up to the local 4x4 Response/Volunteer group, who look for 4x4 owners to help out in adverse weather conditions - the two we mainly get here being snow (on the hills) and floods (in the valleys) of the Chilterns.

Anyway, I'm confident of my cars' abilites in the snow, which have already been proven in the last snowfall. However, I have not had the opportunity to try it in any significant depth of water, and I've read that the V8's don't like wading very much!

So my question is, what is the biggest cause of failure in water, and what can be done to prevent it? I've heard that the air intake is actually pretty well designed, so a snorkel is not necessary unless you want to go top-of-bonnet/windscreen deep, which I doubt I will! However, the recommended wading depth is only 500mm, and it has been known to reach double that in the past round here!

I guess the electrics are an issue, but what can be done there? I don't really want the expense of replacing the viscous fan with a leccy one, but if I can protect the vital parts in some way that would be good! I've heard about rubber gloves over dizzy caps and all sorts, but would prefer something that works!

Last thing, I have seen on several supplier sites these 'wading kits' that give extended breathers to the diffs and gearbox - but this is not something I ever seen mentioned on forums, and they look quite expensive for what they are. Are they necessary/recommended?

Cheers in advance!

[West4x4]

Main problem is fan hitting water and throwing it about the engine bay. So a electric fan is a good idea as you can turn it off. Otherwise make sure you have good leads and a good distributer cap, rotor arm and coil. Poor quality parts lead to a weak spark which gets worse when wet. If your leads are long enough put the bottom of a 2 litre coke bottle over the top of the dizzy and put a cable tie over to hold in place that should keep worst of the water off

[GKP]

You also have to bear in mind how precious you are of your carpets. Anything approaching the bottoms of the doors will lead to soggyness undefoot for a while. Is your car fuel injected or airsprung? There will be ecus under the seats. Where is your cd player?

[Mike_C]

West4x4 said:

Main problem is fan hitting water and throwing it about the engine bay. So a electric fan is a good idea as you can turn it off. Otherwise make sure you have good leads and a good distributer cap, rotor arm and coil. Poor quality parts lead to a weak spark which gets worse when wet. If your leads are long enough put the bottom of a 2 litre coke bottle over the top of the dizzy and put a cable tie over to hold in place that should keep worst of the water off

GKP said:

You also have to bear in mind how precious you are of your carpets. Anything approaching the bottoms of the doors will lead to soggyness undefoot for a while. Is your car fuel injected or airsprung? There will be ecus under the seats. Where is your cd player?

Thanks for the info guys! Coke bottle idea sounds a good way of protecting the dizzy, will see what I can come up with!

Carpets are already wet - still finding out why(!) - but will remove the carpets before wading it, just have the rubber mats in the footwell! CD player in the stock position and ECU under the seat but it is springs all round, not air sprung. Where do most people move the ECU to, and is it an easy job?

[Ranger 6]

The guy I used to navigate for in comp safaris used trials bike plug caps as just part of his waterproofing prep. It might be worth looking at something like that for a bit of extra sealing?

[Mike_C]

Hi fesuvious,

Thanks for myriad of replies!! Sounds like you have some experience in this area?

My RR is a road car - it does go green laning and will partake in the odd pay & play day, but it is by no means an "offroader" so I'm not planning on wading through really deep water.

However, as a volunteer for the local 4x4 Response Group it would be foolish of me to then go get stuck if we were to experience flood conditions again!

I think for now the basics will do - shielding the dizzy cap from the fan seems like a very good idea for starters!

Again, no mention of the breathers for the diffs and gearbox - are they OK as it is?

[Mike_C]

I think the diffs are OK - everythings been waxoyled and I sprayed another coat of underbody spray last week wheilst fitting the diff guards, and all looked OK. Same story with the gearbox, but will double check that!

So what if the water comes to say the top of the wheels - is that a major issue?

[Mike_C]

Can I just pay you to come waterproof it for me?! Haha! I'm sure you'll do a much more thorough job!!!

Stock 'safe' wading depth is 500mm, which I am guess is about 3/4 the way up the wheel, so top of the wheels could be trouble I guess, particularly if like you say, you hit a dip/pothole midway through! Like this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE52JbQ-Je4

Out of interest, what snorkel would you recommend?

[Mike_C]

Haha, was only jesting about you doing it, don't worry! I was thinking black drainpipe would do the job, but didn't want to sound foolish! But would happy to make something out of that, no problem! These kits seem to cost between £100-£190, and I reckon I could make one for £25!! Would be nervous about cutting a hole in the wing, but would have to do that regardless I guess?

[Mike_C]

My airbox is the cylindrical type, like the image below - do I connect the snorkel directly to the end of this, or remove the airbox completely and connect infront of the MAF? Inclination it to keep the airbox and filter in place - the removable front "funnel" is a very tight fit, but could use some sealant if deemed necessary, will also check for drain holes inside the airbox itself!

[signia]

Hi

If it helps with breathers at all, I replaced the axle breathers on my Disco (should be the same as your RRC?) I used cable ties to take the line along the top of the chassis rail from the back to the front - just leave enough slack at the rear to allow axle articulation.

The gearbox/transfer box breathers terminate in the back of the engine bay.

I've been trying to find my order confirmation email to see exactly what I ordered. But I got everything from here http://secure.thorite.co.uk/kwkYvi647239/Connector...

I can't remember what size the thread is on the axle breathers. But you need a swivel elbow adapter. I used a Y adapter to merge the two gearbox breathers into one.
I then took those three tubes and connected them to a manifold which had an output to a slighting larger tube diameter. I then took that line up and out with the snorkel.

It didn't take very long to do, but I'm glad I did it. When I removed the old axle breathers the one at the rear was definitely blocked. I changed the diff/axle oil not long after and it was a state. Now they are easy to get to, you can check for blockages by blowing down them and the air pushed back should stink of EP90

[signia]

fesuvious said:

I can think of a ford I drove that was top'o'wheels deep. Nice and steady but 'whoah!' deep hole @10ft into it that sent water up to top of front left corner of bonnet.

Your comment reminds me of one I did a few years back with exactly the same story

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&cr=country...

Stupidly, whilst out with some mates, at night (with a LR Lightweight in convoy) we decided to do this ford (from the other direction as shown in the streetview and before the new depth gauge was fitted). About two third the way across, we hit a pothole on the left side and the front of the car went under. Not long after that, I fitted the snorkel and breathers. We went back a few weeks later during the day and it was a lot deeper and there was a very strong current.

Very stupid, but very lucky. No idea how I got away with that.

[Mike_C]

fesuvious said:

I take it the vehicle is a 3.5 then?

You'll be needing silicone for the fitment, most certainly

Nope, a 3.9 injection, pre-cat - 1991 model!

signia - thanks for the info! If you can find a copy of your order that'd be brilliant. I am guessing I can also get the rubber pipes to replace the cherished ones to fix my cruise control too!

Edited by Mike_C on Wednesday 26th January 14:45

[Mike_C]

fesuvious said:

...Standing on the bank, cold, and only being able to see the top half of the windscreen and roof of a vehicle you've loved....was rather depressing.

Hahaha! I shouldn't laugh, but that is a funny story! What caused that then??

[signia]

It's times like that though that give you the biggest buzz (perhaps not drowning an engine) but the times you somehow survive in spite of your own ignorance and stupidity. You look back on it and think what the heck were we doing?? I've nearly drowned it several times, nearly rolled it sideways on a UCR that kinda disappeared and nearly rolled it top to tail when laning in Wales - that was scary. Learned an awful lot though about the car and what it's capable of.

I tend not to go deliverately ford hunting any more - because I know I'll need to clean the car properly afterwards to get rid of the smell and get the water out of the driving lights. But if I happen to come across one... well normally I can't resist

No worries Mike, I'll try to dig it out on the PC when I get home. For some reason it's not coming up on my gmail search.

[signia]

Mike, I got the wrong company... although same products.

I ordered this from Cotswold Engineering Supplies
http://www.cotswoldengineeringsupplies.co.uk/

CDPL0601 6mm od x 1/8 BSPT male elbow swivel one-touch fitting x2 --> for the axle breathers

CDPY06 6mm od union 'Y' one-touch fitting --> for joining the gearbox/transfer box breathers together

CDPKG0806 8mm x 6mm od reducer triple branch union one-touch fitting --> manifold for 2x axle and 1x 'box breathers 6mm in, 8mm out.

PNFM6/4Y 6mm od x 4mm id yellow flexible nylon tubing 30mtrs --> 6mm tubing from axles and 'box Y connector to manifold

PNFM8/6Y 8mm od x 6mm id yellow flexible nylon tubing 30mtrs --> 8mm tubing from manifold to outside. (I ran this along the 'ledge' below the windscreen under the bonnet and out where my roof lighting conduit comes out of the plastic trim below the windscreen. You hardly see it as it's tucked in behind the snorkel.

CDPL0801N 8mm od x 1/8" BSPT male elbow swivel push-in fitting --> I just used this at the top to angle the end back down when it's tucked up behind the light bar.

Now, you might have realised that the manifold has a hole still at one end that's unused. What I did was essentially replicate the same again but put breathers on my cheapy driving lights. I don't suggest you do this, because it doesn't work However, if you have factory fit front fogs, they will likely have breathers that terminate as "hook ends" in the bit behind the headlights. I don't know the OD but they are a lot smaller than the other breathers. You might be able to knock up something to do the job with those, if so, take a line into the spare manifold.

Otherwise you'll need one of the plugs they sell to put in the manifold.

All that cost 73 quid, but that included the lame attempt at light breathers and 45 of that was tubing which they only sold in 30m runs. You might be able to find somewhere that can do it per metre. I thought I might end up replacing the lines as a result of them getting caught under the car, so I thought I might as well get the 30m. Looks like I did a good job of routing them as they're still there! I'll use the rest on my next Landy

[signia]

I thought the auto bell housings were sealed (as much as anything in a Land Rover is sealed)?

Could tap the casing itself I suppose?

Yeah... the light thing... it *should* have worked in theory (I was only copying what LR did on the fogs) but poorly executed.