Girl friend about to be shafted by employer

[Daimeydum]

My fiancé and I are getting married and she needs a job closer to home. She used her phone and company wifi in her own time to look at a few websites for jobs. 

Today she had an interview in the afternoon at a new place. 

Just before leaving the office to go (she booked a half days holiday) she was called in to her office managers office an told she'd been using the Internet too much (not true, she works very hard and does nothing much of her own and if she does it's in her own time, a very rare thing indeed but she's a good worker and for sod all money) 
She was told they have printouts of the web pages she visited. And she will have to have a meeting (tomorrow I think) and likely a written warning as everyone in the office was given a verbal about mobile usage (during work time) a couple of months ago. 
So they obviously have some vendetta against her now and will make her life hell, we can't afford for her to quit without another job. Why a manager would be horrible and undermining to a member who wanted to leave makes no sense to me as it's not going to make her stay it'll make you more determined to leave. She's leaving because of our personal circumstances nothing more. 

So...my concern is she needs to stand up for herself and know her rights. Which so few people know.

I don't care much for the legality of using their wifi. right or wrong she could have used the 3G and she's not indignant about whether she should have used it or not or that they've spied on her phone use cos it's their wifi. Although I'd be interested to know.

I need to know....

1. I said she has the right to have an independent 3rd party in the meeting with her. Is this true? 
I also say she should ask for the evidence. 

2. I think she should insist it is the company owner who I would guess is ultimately responsible for her employment. She thinks he won't do it as he hates managing his staff. Is he obligated to if she wants him there? 

3. It's a small industry. The place she went for interview know the place she's at now. If they did anything to affect her chances of getting the job where would she stand an how can we stop them doing that. 

4. Will a written warning be a problem should she get the job and need a reference  

I feel they're messing with her personal life and acting outside their limits. 

Thanks for reading if you got this far. 
Any help much appreciated. 

No PH spelling Nazis please
Mx5
Readbull can blar blar.....

[miniman]

What does the company IT policy state about personal use of the web during work time?

[D_G]

As Miniman said she needs to read her contract about the phone / internet usage. IT@S ALso worth reading the contract in regards to disiplinary procedures. Common employment procedure is that the employee is invited into a meeting where the allegations are put forward, if they are to be taken further then a letter setting out a formal disiplinary meeting time / date etc, this meeting is the one where you can have a representative. Depending the outcome of this there can be further meetings until the decision is reached.
There is no requirement for the business owner to be involved. It's not ideal to have a warning on your record but just wait until the first meeting as it might just end there anyway.
Good luck

[matt28]

Daimeydum said:

I don't care much for the legality of using their wifi. right or wrong she could have used the 3G and she's not indignant about whether she should have used it or not or that they've spied on her phone use cos it's their wifi. Although I'd be interested to know.

I need to know....

1. I said she has the right to have an independent 3rd party in the meeting with her. Is this true? 
I also say she should ask for the evidence. 

2. I think she should insist it is the company owner who I would guess is ultimately responsible for her employment. She thinks he won't do it as he hates managing his staff. Is he obligated to if she wants him there? 

3. It's a small industry. The place she went for interview know the place she's at now. If they did anything to affect her chances of getting the job where would she stand an how can we stop them doing that. 

4. Will a written warning be a problem should she get the job and need a reference  

I feel they're messing with her personal life and acting outside their limits. 

Yes, they are entitled to monitor the usage of their own network. Most decent companies/managers will only do this when there is a need (e.g. performance issues in other areas). But of course they can log network usage.

To answer your questions from my experience (bear in mind I'm not an employment lawyer so seek professional advice if required):
1. She will be allowed somebody else who works at the company OR trade union (if there is one). She can't just take anybody in.
2. No, he won't be obligated.
3. It's unlikely they would do this as it would be a legal mindfield for them.
4. Maybe. Generally references are in the form "PersonX worked here from d/m/y to d/m/y" and that's it. While a written warning COULD be given in a reference (because it's factual), it's unlikely that they would do this due to the above.

Bear in mind that she could always resign and sue for constructive dismissal if she genuinely feels like she is about to be shafted. But they're accusing her of something she is guilty of by the sounds of things (unless her company policy allows use of company property to search for jobs).

Bear in mind also, it costs about £15-18k for a company to defend themselves in an employment tribunal. So they are highly unlikely to go around trying to shaft her for sport.

As the above 2 have posted, make sure she knows her contract and the policies. The above I've written from past experiences and a basic knowledge of employment law.

[davepoth]

And certainly, if they do decide to shaft her for sport, they're willing to give her a check for that £15-18k (maybe more depending on salary) to avoid going to court.

If she wants to get arsey with them, ask for a copy of the internet usage log for her computer.

[Simpo Two]

Daimeydum said:

She's leaving because of our personal circumstances nothing more.

She's leaving anyway?

[Robb F]

Sorry thought this was about something else, carry on.

Edited by Robb F on Wednesday 26th January 22:55

[Audicab]

There was a thread about something similar some time ago, in that case the IT department were looking at web logs and saying they were pages that they were looking at, when each page can generate dozens of web logs.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/xforums/topic.asp?h=0... the missus has been busted for internet use at work...

As others have said make sure you know what the policy is at work and the disciplinary procedure is, it would be very rare for any warning to have an impact on job hunting.

[Daimeydum]

Hi. Thanks.
Yeah. We're not too bothered about the fancy she did use their wifi. She's fine about being told off for that. It's just they are only doing it because she looked for a new job.

She's not leaving anyway. She'll only leave if she gets another job as we can't afford for her no to work.

That's put my mind at rest. See how tomorrow goes.

Oh and sorry if the title was misleading :-)

With any luck she'll get the job and none of it will matter.

[Torquey]

If I was in her shoes I'd be wanting to see this print out of visited sites in this meeting.

Then see if they can be passed off as work related or done in free time. If there is anything outstanding then she can only apologise (and use 3G next time)!

[Daimeydum]

Ok so she's been sent home and told they'll be intouch Monday. They say they're waiting to decide if they feel it's gross misconduct.

They're compiling the "evidence" against her.

I say if you could see evendence that she's used it less than many other employes (which is certain) i.e. Compare her usage with others. If she's used it less then they should get rid of those people too. Which would mean it's unfair dismissal?

Thanks

[miniman]

As before, do they actually have an IT / web usage policy?

[fido]

Without knowing how much time she's spent on the net etc. it's hard to say - but could they be pressurising her to leave (without notice) - whilst also sendign a warning to other employees? Otherwise it does sound vindictive.

[Daimeydum]

miniman said:

As before, do they actually have an IT / web usage policy?

I expect so. How could she find out what it is? Don't think it's in her contract and she's sent home so can't find it out at work.

[plasticpig]

How do they know the traffic is generated by her phone? The only way they could prove it was her phone is if they know the mac address of her phone or use a WiFi packet geo locater such as MoocherHunter.

[blindswelledrat]

They obviously have some vendetta against her?
Are you serious?
She looks for another job using company phones/computers/time? and is confused why they are annoyed?
I honestly can't comprehend your confusion. That is pisstaking of the highest order

[plg]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Surely it depends... our HR/recruitment teams are always on them - partly to see who is active in our sector and recruiting, at which pay band and at which grade.
Ditto our teams that sell "bodyshop" services - it's a quick route to finding which potential clients have an immediate skills shortage and a way of engaging to sell and interim capability.

I take your point though, not good general practice.

[Alfa numeric]

blindswelledrat said:

They obviously have some vendetta against her?
Are you serious?
She looks for another job using company phones/computers/time? and is confused why they are annoyed?
I honestly can't comprehend your confusion. That is pisstaking of the highest order

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'd say it's very common. It certainly is in the places I've worked. I've had agencies email me job descriptions to my work address all my working life and never had a problem.

BSW, are you saying that you'd do the same if you discovered that an employee was looking at a job site during their lunch hour?

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

There is a big difference between an employee looking for another job to move up the career ladder, and one looking for another job for personal reasons as is the case here. Any decent employer would understand that, and support the employee.

[davepoth]

Bluequay said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

There is a big difference between an employee looking for another job to move up the career ladder, and one looking for another job for personal reasons as is the case here. Any decent employer would understand that, and support the employee.

I don't agree. But if the company has a problem with it they should make it clear in the IT policy.

OP, make sure to get your OH to read up on what could happen if they decide it's gross misconduct. "Without Prejudice" conversations and "Compromise Agreements" especially.