Engine Rebuild - What do you suggest?

[UKAuto]

Hello all, my 350i was getting tired so I have brought it in to have the engine rebuilt this winter. Went to the shop last week and found they had leapt ahead, and are now ready to do machine work any day, and need to have decisions made on exactly what parts we are using.

The car is driven a good mix of in town and highway. In town I tend to accelerate to just shy of wheel spin, and enjoy lots of low end power. On the highway I do tend to pass quickly, but often drive in to the city at a fairly steady band of 60 mph to 75 mph. I am not very concerned about fuel efficiency, although it would be nice to keep it under control. Another consideration is I do not want to change the fuel injection system, or ignition, but would rather (at least for now) restrict the work and money to the engine itself - although I am flexible in this area.

To this end I need to make some decisions, and after reading various sources I am no further ahead on knowning what is best, so I hope some of you have experience to share that will help me make the decisions.

The engine is high mile, having a little over 200,000 miles on it; the shop was very surprised at how good it was - but it does have some of the key issues you would expect. The bores have no signs of ridging or scoring, but have been found to be slightly oval, so a rebore is required. Options:

• *QUESTION #1 - Rebore or resleeve?

1. Rebore, (20 over perhaps), now 3.5 pistons?
2. Re-sleeve, do we go with 3.9 liners and pistons?

I am leaning towards #1 on this option, bound to cost less. Regardless of the option I pick are there any things I should be considering for picking pistons? I imagine if I don't specify I will get what ever they have in stock.

• *QUESTION #2 - What Cam?

Now, the cam, looking at some of the options I am leaning towards a Kent H214 or Piper HR270, but again, a hard area to pick without greater knowledge or experience. Any specific advice on lifters, or on the new cam chain and gears?

• * QUESTION #3 - Fuel delivery?

I have been advised to get a rising rate fuel regulator; opinions?
Should I buy new injectors, or get refurbed?

• * QUESTION #4 - Distributor?

Despite my comment earlier, I am also considering a mallory distributor (likely only if mine shows wear). Is that a worthwhile investment? Any other ignition concerns?

• * QUESTION #5 - Oil distribution?

Any comments on enlarging oil return hles in the scylinder heads and lifter gallery, or the two oil holes in front of the block that you see when the cover is off - should they be opened up?
Should I be going with a heavy duty, or high flow oil pump?

• * QUESTION #6 - Turftride and balance?

Should I worry about getting any parts tuftrided? Crank, rods?
Should I have the rotating assembly (crank, rods, pistons, flywheel) fully balanced?

• * QUESTION #7 - Rockers?

I expected the rockers to be junk at this point, and I read so much about them being a weak point. My mechanic says there is no sign of wear to worry about, is this realistic - 200,000 miles and servicable? I would imagine they need to be disassembled, and all oilways cleaned out.


Appreciate guidance on any and all of the above. Will need to get thoughts back to the shop in the next day or two - so leaning on all of you for advice! If there are things I have not considered please feel free to comment.

Cheers,

Rob, Canada.

[adam quantrill]

Rising rate regulator on a flapper is an easy upgrage - you can do this after, though.

Regarding oil distribution it's worth drilling a small hole at the front of the 'V' so oil can dribble onto the timing chain, it aids oiling a bit. 4mm should do it.

[deetes]

Rob,

You live in Canada. Why even bother with the Rover engine? There's a huge supply of cheap Ford small blocks and huge amounts of cheap tuning parts to go with them.

Quite a few people in the States have done this conversion already. A few that log onto this forum.

That's what I would do if the same supply of SBF's was available over here.

[UKAuto]

Thanks Adam, I heard that I should consider that, will pass it on to the shop and ask them to make it so. I guess the oil gets up there pretty good, but doesn't come down - and having some to come down via the timing chain is not a bad case of killing two birds with one stone.

Deetes, yes, endless supply, a crate engine could even be bought for the kind of money this is likely to cost me, but I am trying to keep it close to stock. There are a fair number of V6 Tasmins / 280i's - but very few V8 wedges imported to North America. Mine was the only 350i FHC brought to the country, and the US had none. There may be some imported since, but they would almost certainly be right hand drive (mine *may* be the only factory V8 FHC left hand drive - or at very least one of an extrememly small number. I also have one of the Griffith 500 cars that came to Canada, just a hand full arrived; nice thing is my Griffith gives me one with decent power, so to be honest I don't need to go to crazy on the upgrades to the 350i. Now, if I get a third TVR I may go full out, and who knows what power plant that will mean - but too many house projects (including garage) before I can consider going there!!

The 350i is likely one of the best out there, despite the miles, so all the more reason for me to take the stock route with only minor modifications... here is the car:


more images at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13548761@N05/25472060...

[Wedg1e]

Rather than messing about taking the block out to 3.9L, you'd be better off finding a factory Landrover 3.9 block and start from that.

Injectors can be tested for sealing, flow rate and pattern, no reason to replace them if they're all still in spec.

Rising rate FPR is probably pointless on a standard-ish 3.5; most vehicles that used the standard engine fuel with no issues.
If you go for a fast road cam then maybe, perhaps... if you go for a higher-lift cam (not sure whether those you specify are) then you may need to have the pistons pocketed and the valve guides shortened. Also, arguably, you'd then go for dual valve springs... and when you're at that stage of the game, it'd all be wasted if you didn't have the heads and inlet manifold ported.

[UKAuto]

Thanks Wedgie, think I will take your advice, but on the small side of the 3.9 fence; I won't re-line the engine to 3.9, nor grab a Land Rover 3.9, I will stay at 3.5

Will still need to sort out the cam, and consider pistons that have the cut outs at the same time, rather than having them cut.

Also, good advice on the regulator - will pass for now.

Cheers

[adam quantrill]

A simpler way of increasing capacity is to stroke the engine (mmmm, nice engine, would you like a stroke? ;^)

By that I mean making the pistons go up and down further which can be acheived by a longer-throw crank and/or grinding the crank to offset the piston bearings further out.

When you stroke the engine it's better overall on torque across the band (because of the increased levering effect of the pistons on the crank) which may suit your driving style.

[JR]

Hi Rob, it looks like you have a very nice car there. Like you I'd keep it fairly standard.

Wedg1e said:

Rising rate FPR is probably pointless on a standard-ish 3.5; most vehicles that used the standard engine fuel with no issues.

I spoke to John Ravenscroft about this. He replied along the lines of "I've tested more fuel pressures than you've had hot dinners. Fit one if you like; you won't get any more power but will use more fuel."

UKAuto said:

***QUESTION #1 - Rebore or resleeve?
1. Rebore, (20 over perhaps), now 3.5 pistons?
2. Re-sleeve, do we go with 3.9 liners and pistons?

I am leaning towards #1 on this option, bound to cost less.

I'm with you there. Minimum over bore for circular pistons.

UKAuto said:

***QUESTION #2 - What Cam?
Now, the cam, looking at some of the options I am leaning towards a Kent H214 or Piper HR270, but again, a hard area to pick without greater knowledge or experience. Any specific advice on lifters, or on the new cam chain and gears?

214 was the default for quite a while. Have you tried speaking to Boosted?

UKAuto said:

*** QUESTION #3 - Fuel delivery?
I have been advised to get a rising rate fuel regulator; opinions?
Should I buy new injectors, or get refurbed?

As above, no for the regulator. Injectors: isn't it best to check the spray pattern?

UKAuto said:

*** QUESTION #5 - Oil distribution?
Any comments on enlarging oil return holes in the cylinder heads and lifter gallery, or the two oil holes in front of the block that you see when the cover is off - should they be opened up?
Should I be going with a heavy duty, or high flow oil pump?

Have you had problems with the standard set up? Usually just clean, face the oil pump cover and fit a new pressure relief spring.

UKAuto said:

*** QUESTION #6 - Turftride and balance?
Should I worry about getting any parts tuftrided? Crank, rods?
Should I have the rotating assembly (crank, rods, pistons, flywheel) fully balanced?

I guess that you don't want to have to do all of this again after another 200,000 miles :-) The factory had a 350i hack that was getting on for 300,000.

UKAuto said:

Appreciate guidance on any and all of the above. Will need to get thoughts back to the shop in the next day or two - so leaning on all of you for advice! If there are things I have not considered please feel free to comment.

From the description of your driving I wonder which diff you've got. One to give you the lowest gear ratios possible and LSD?

[TVRleigh_BBWR]

Hi Rob a few options on what I'd do, If I wanted to keep it standard, else I would buy a 4.0 or 47 P38 Landrover, and put the engine from one of those in there.

UKAuto said:

• *QUESTION #1 - Rebore or resleeve?

1. Rebore, (20 over perhaps), now 3.5 pistons?
2. Re-sleeve, do we go with 3.9 liners and pistons?

I'd stick with over bore, if your going 3.9 your better off getting a complete 3.9 or 4.0 or 4.6

UKAuto said:

• *QUESTION #2 - What Cam?

Now, the cam, looking at some of the options I am leaning towards a Kent H214 or Piper HR270, but again, a hard area to pick without greater knowledge or experience. Any specific advice on lifters, or on the new cam chain and gears?

I'd say the 214 would be fine, also get some pre-load shims, or adjustable rods, also remember to fit new lifters, and run the engine with mineral oil for 20 mins at least 2000 RPM, or 1st startup

[,quote=UKAuto]

• * QUESTION #3 - Fuel delivery?

I have been advised to get a rising rate fuel regulator; opinions?
Should I buy new injectors, or get refurbed?

if you keeping it standard, just just a new standard one or get your refurbished

UKAuto said:

• * QUESTION #5 - Oil distribution?

Any comments on enlarging oil return hles in the scylinder heads and lifter gallery, or the two oil holes in front of the block that you see when the cover is off - should they be opened up?
Should I be going with a heavy duty, or high flow oil pump?

You have not had any problems in 200k miles, so #i'd just leave as is.

UKAuto said:

• * QUESTION #6 - Turftride and balance?

Should I worry about getting any parts tuftrided? Crank, rods?
Should I have the rotating assembly (crank, rods, pistons, flywheel) fully balanced?

As your be fitting oversize pistons, and due to the 3.5 being 100% rover items, I'd get everything balanced
All standard parts are ok for 6K+ RPM so not worth getting tuftided.
I would look into getting the crank checked, as it may need a re-grind, and oversize shells, (get this checked before a balance)

UKAuto said:

• * QUESTION #7 - Rockers?

I expected the rockers to be junk at this point, and I read so much about them being a weak point. My mechanic says there is no sign of wear to worry about, is this realistic - 200,000 miles and servicable? I would imagine they need to be disassembled, and all oilways cleaned out.

All the one's I've seen that have done >100K have had wear, so for the price of new replacements (about $200), I would change them, as I doubt they would last another 200K, due to the rockers being aluminium running direct or steel it only takes the smallest bit or wear to start a quick acceleration process or wear.

[UKAuto]

JR - I love the quote..."I've tested more fuel pressures than you've had hot dinners. Fit one if you like; you won't get any more power but will use more fuel." Guess that one is answered!

I assume when you ask if I have tried to talk to Boosted you are talking about "Boosted LS1"? Have not talked to him. I will read up on the 214 cam and see what it sounds like. Pretty soon I will need to roll the dice and take a leap of faith on some cam.

Looks like the general advice on injectors is test rather than replace blindly; the shop also said much the same, they aren't trying to spend my money (that is always nice). Will have them checked.

The pressure release spring on the oil pump is one I forgot all about - thanks - I will remind them if they weren't already planning to do this. Will still do some of the oilway mods I think - as it can't hurt.

[UKAuto]

TVRleigh_BBWR,

Sounds like we are of a similar mind on this too.

Think I am at the conclusion that I will just get it bored out, new pistons and rings, new bearings and crank grind, no tuftriding, no rising rate regulator, have injectors tested, go for getting the assembly balanced. Also, I think you are right, rockers aren't that expensive, may as well get a new set to be safe.

I will have some minor improvements on oil return, although you are right, a couple of hundred thousand with no big issues (bearings are worn out, but that is not to say there is a weakness, just lots of driving!)

Cam still TBD, but there is another vote for the 214 - so will read up.

Cheers

[UKAuto]

...And Adam, yes, stroker kit would be nice, but from what I can see it is going to dig too deep in to my pockets. Think I have resigned myself to the 3.5, and will just need to take out the Griffith when I need a little more ooomph.

[grahamw48]

Useful site for cam data:

http://www.btinternet.com/~jon.wolfe/kentcamdata.h...