Which Kitchen Units?
Discussion
Hello 
I'm going to gut my existing kitchen and start from scratch. I've been to Magnet and gave them my dimensions and they designed and printed out a schematic of what units will fit where with mock up "photos" of what it would look like, so I now know exactly what dimension units to get. I'm going to do all the fitting work myself, but it's a bit of a mine field trying to determine the best quality kitchen units for a given price. The only thing I have decided on, is that I want an "in frame" kitchen as I like how they look.
I need around 14 units, its a fairly small kitchen. Magnets came out at about £9K in their "sale" which is an utter joke, but I only went there in the first place just to get the design measurements etc. I've looked at B&Q which are a far more reasonable price (have not worked it out exactly), and some of their Cooke and Lewis designs are quite nice, but not really what I'm looking for, and I'm sure the same quality can be bought for less elsewhere (I've also opened a B&Q Trade Point account so get a bit more discount). I looked at Homebase and thought they were cack build quality. Wickes were better built but nothing in my personal taste. I've also opened up a trade account with Howdens. I've not actually looked at their units in the flesh yet, but they seem to come highly regarded when looking at DIY forums etc. I've also opened a trade account with Benchmarx. I had a quick look at their units which seem pretty well built, but they don't have a price "list" as such, they give you a price when you tell them what you want, and I haven't yet had time to go back with the exact amount/size/type of units that I want, so I don't know how their prices compare.
A mate of mine has fitted out his last two kitchens with units from here: http://www.diy-kitchens.com/
He reckons that for quality/price they are superb. I would'nt buy units off the web without seeing them for myself in case they are crap, but it seems all the companies selling units buy the doors in from a number of manufacturers, but make their own carcasses, and this is where the difference between a crap one and a good one is determined.
Looking at that website, I was initially very interested in this design: http://www.diy-kitchens.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=7290
This comes out to roughly £3K including decorative end panels, plinths, cornice etc for the 14 units I would get (four glazed which bumps up the price). However, the doors are "foil painted." I can't find out much information as to whether this is cack or not, or even why you would cover something in foil and then paint it. But I'm guessing that it may be easy to mark?
I then looked at this design: http://www.diy-kitchens.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=7312
This is almost exactly the same as the previous one, but the doors are solid timber. For the same units etc it works out nearly a thousand pounds more, so just under £4K for 14 units and all plinths/cornice/pilasters etc.
Their carcasses come ready built up with doors attached (in frame range). They are 18mm thick with all soft close fittings.
I guess my question is two fold. Is it worth paying the extra for solid doors, and for the money I'm looking at (£3K - £4K), can I get better quality elsewhere?
In a nutshell, I'm starting to get more and more confused by all the makes available and just want to get the best for my money without buying a load of crap that falls apart in a couple of years. I can't afford to buy twice!!!
Over to you, all advice appreciated
I'm going to gut my existing kitchen and start from scratch. I've been to Magnet and gave them my dimensions and they designed and printed out a schematic of what units will fit where with mock up "photos" of what it would look like, so I now know exactly what dimension units to get. I'm going to do all the fitting work myself, but it's a bit of a mine field trying to determine the best quality kitchen units for a given price. The only thing I have decided on, is that I want an "in frame" kitchen as I like how they look.
I need around 14 units, its a fairly small kitchen. Magnets came out at about £9K in their "sale" which is an utter joke, but I only went there in the first place just to get the design measurements etc. I've looked at B&Q which are a far more reasonable price (have not worked it out exactly), and some of their Cooke and Lewis designs are quite nice, but not really what I'm looking for, and I'm sure the same quality can be bought for less elsewhere (I've also opened a B&Q Trade Point account so get a bit more discount). I looked at Homebase and thought they were cack build quality. Wickes were better built but nothing in my personal taste. I've also opened up a trade account with Howdens. I've not actually looked at their units in the flesh yet, but they seem to come highly regarded when looking at DIY forums etc. I've also opened a trade account with Benchmarx. I had a quick look at their units which seem pretty well built, but they don't have a price "list" as such, they give you a price when you tell them what you want, and I haven't yet had time to go back with the exact amount/size/type of units that I want, so I don't know how their prices compare.
A mate of mine has fitted out his last two kitchens with units from here: http://www.diy-kitchens.com/
He reckons that for quality/price they are superb. I would'nt buy units off the web without seeing them for myself in case they are crap, but it seems all the companies selling units buy the doors in from a number of manufacturers, but make their own carcasses, and this is where the difference between a crap one and a good one is determined.
Looking at that website, I was initially very interested in this design: http://www.diy-kitchens.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=7290
This comes out to roughly £3K including decorative end panels, plinths, cornice etc for the 14 units I would get (four glazed which bumps up the price). However, the doors are "foil painted." I can't find out much information as to whether this is cack or not, or even why you would cover something in foil and then paint it. But I'm guessing that it may be easy to mark?
I then looked at this design: http://www.diy-kitchens.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=7312
This is almost exactly the same as the previous one, but the doors are solid timber. For the same units etc it works out nearly a thousand pounds more, so just under £4K for 14 units and all plinths/cornice/pilasters etc.
Their carcasses come ready built up with doors attached (in frame range). They are 18mm thick with all soft close fittings.
I guess my question is two fold. Is it worth paying the extra for solid doors, and for the money I'm looking at (£3K - £4K), can I get better quality elsewhere?
In a nutshell, I'm starting to get more and more confused by all the makes available and just want to get the best for my money without buying a load of crap that falls apart in a couple of years. I can't afford to buy twice!!!
Over to you, all advice appreciated
If you have a good idea what you want where keep an eye out for showrooms selling off their demo units. Ours worked out a fifth of the new price and even when fitted (by the same chap who made them which was nice) the bill was still very good. May take a while depending on what you want.
Ebay and a couple of dedicated websites are worth watching too.
Ebay and a couple of dedicated websites are worth watching too.
rich0411 said:
Which Magnet kitchen were you looking at? I work for Magnet, have you thought about opening a Trade account with them aswell and getting a comparison price? If you have any questions feel free to PM us!
Hello mate It was the "Charlston Bone." Not sure what credentials you need for a Magnet trade account, I couldn't see on the website? Also, I just assumed (maybe incorrectly) that even with a trade discount, a £9K kitchen is still going to be more expensive than the other options for a comparable quality?
Cheers
After a lot of comparison before doing ours we eventually decided on Magnet. The price difference wasn't much at all (we went via a trade account) and the magnet units are all 15mm wood which is a lot more solid and better wearing than the 12mm from the likes of B&Q and other similar stores.
I'm not saying it'll be the right choice for everyone, but just wanted to make sure you realise it's not necessarily apples for apples.
I'm not saying it'll be the right choice for everyone, but just wanted to make sure you realise it's not necessarily apples for apples.
We went for Ikea after lots of shopping around. They have the same Blum hinges and drawer runners you get on more expensive stuff.
They are a piece of peees to build up and are solid as you like when fastened in place.
I've got 3k worth of granite getting plonked on top of mine this thursday
Plus point for Ikea is mainly the price but also the fact they are excellent with returns for changes of mind and breakages (your fault or theirs). They will also let you grab slack handfuls of extra fittings if needed and have a 25yr guarantee.
If you look on the website they have a decent enough 3d design tool to mess about with your layout.
They are a piece of peees to build up and are solid as you like when fastened in place.
I've got 3k worth of granite getting plonked on top of mine this thursday
Plus point for Ikea is mainly the price but also the fact they are excellent with returns for changes of mind and breakages (your fault or theirs). They will also let you grab slack handfuls of extra fittings if needed and have a 25yr guarantee.
If you look on the website they have a decent enough 3d design tool to mess about with your layout.
mk1fan said:
The only problem with Ikea kitchen units is the lack of space at the back of them for hiding pipes. This does give you more storage space but you'll need to get the pipes etc... located to the right points unless you want to hack the back of a lot of units.
Mine was simple as you like.I thought it was going to be tricky, but it just wasn't.
Saying that, it's a new extension so all the services are under the floor.
Toilet Duck said:
rich0411 said:
Which Magnet kitchen were you looking at? I work for Magnet, have you thought about opening a Trade account with them aswell and getting a comparison price? If you have any questions feel free to PM us!
Hello mate It was the "Charlston Bone." Not sure what credentials you need for a Magnet trade account, I couldn't see on the website? Also, I just assumed (maybe incorrectly) that even with a trade discount, a £9K kitchen is still going to be more expensive than the other options for a comparable quality?
Cheers
www.magnettrade.co.uk
I've currently got 19 Milton Ivory in-frame units that I bought from DIY Kitchens sitting in my back room, waiting for me to get off my backside and finish getting all the services relocated in my kitchen overhaul.
Honest opinion of them is that they're very well put together. I think with careful installation they'll be a rock solid base for pretty much any choice of worktop (planning to go for American Cherry myself), and looked after should last many a year.
One thing to note is that the carcasses from DIY Kitchens are glued and dowelled, as opposed to cam and dowel as per many others; this might not make much of a difference (and, let's face it, if you're building up flat packs you can easily use some wood glue) but in the pre-built market I thought this was just a wee bit more appealing than most of the similarly-priced competitors. They also offer a good range of carcass colours, unlike one or two others where you can only have either white or brown.
We shopped around quite a bit and looked at all the usual suspects - Magnet, Ikea, B&Q (Cooke & Lewis), Homebase, Wickes, Howdens, Wren etc, plus a couple of local independents, and came to the conclusion that we got the best value for money by far from what we eventually bought. And this does take all the various fake 'discounts' from the other retailers into account!
It'll be a couple of weeks yet before I start installing them (which the wife is enthralled with, I can tell you...) but I've got too many other things higher up in the renovation food chain that I need to get done first, otherwise I'd give you a proper review of what they're like to actually fit. Can't wait to have a nice new kitchen though (note to self: less time on PH, more time on tools).
Honest opinion of them is that they're very well put together. I think with careful installation they'll be a rock solid base for pretty much any choice of worktop (planning to go for American Cherry myself), and looked after should last many a year.
One thing to note is that the carcasses from DIY Kitchens are glued and dowelled, as opposed to cam and dowel as per many others; this might not make much of a difference (and, let's face it, if you're building up flat packs you can easily use some wood glue) but in the pre-built market I thought this was just a wee bit more appealing than most of the similarly-priced competitors. They also offer a good range of carcass colours, unlike one or two others where you can only have either white or brown.
We shopped around quite a bit and looked at all the usual suspects - Magnet, Ikea, B&Q (Cooke & Lewis), Homebase, Wickes, Howdens, Wren etc, plus a couple of local independents, and came to the conclusion that we got the best value for money by far from what we eventually bought. And this does take all the various fake 'discounts' from the other retailers into account!
It'll be a couple of weeks yet before I start installing them (which the wife is enthralled with, I can tell you...) but I've got too many other things higher up in the renovation food chain that I need to get done first, otherwise I'd give you a proper review of what they're like to actually fit. Can't wait to have a nice new kitchen though (note to self: less time on PH, more time on tools).
Take a look at Wren Kitchens. They were very good for units when we bought from them, very solid build with blum hinges & runners etc. Good customer service too.
Avoid their 50mm lamiate worktops though, and appliances, sinks, taps etc can be bought cheaper elsewhere.
http://www.wrenkitchens.com/
Avoid their 50mm lamiate worktops though, and appliances, sinks, taps etc can be bought cheaper elsewhere.
http://www.wrenkitchens.com/
Toilet Duck said:
Hello
I need around 14 units, its a fairly small kitchen. Magnets came out at about £9K in their "sale" which is an utter joke, but I only went there in the first place just to get the design measurements etc. I've looked at B&Q which are a far more reasonable price (have not worked it out exactly)
I'm sorry to have to say this, but this attitude really annoys me. I run a kitchen and bathroom business and hearing about people going into companies with absolutely no intention of buying their products, but just taking advantage of their "free design service" really irritates me. Do you think that magnet salesmen are not paid on commission? Or that they are working just for the fun of it because they have nothing better to do? I need around 14 units, its a fairly small kitchen. Magnets came out at about £9K in their "sale" which is an utter joke, but I only went there in the first place just to get the design measurements etc. I've looked at B&Q which are a far more reasonable price (have not worked it out exactly)
These people might have missed a genuine enquiry whilst dealing with someone like yourself, who is happy just to waste their time and efforts.
Free designs are not free, they cost time and money for the company involved. It's because of people like yourself that a lot of local companies are looking to charge for designs.
As a business owner,I understand and happily accept that we will not, and indeed can not expect to get 100% orders from all enquiries, but I do not think it's unreasonable to expect that people who do ask for our proffesional services to at least give us the courtesy of considering us as suppliers of the kitchens. are you aware that an average design can take approx 2-3 hours of work, and more if it is surveyed? Would you expect a solicitor to work for free for you for 3 hours?
I'm sorry for ranting here, but why not do your research first, decide on your budget and tell the salesman it, find out who supplies the type and style of kitchen you require and then get the preferred company to design the layout for you, at least then they might have a chance of getting " a sale"
Before setting up for myself I was a manager of a big branch of magnet in Scotland, and I can assure you all salesmen and women get grilled on all enquiries they have taken by their line managers, and conversion rates are calculated of this. People who take lots of enquiries and produce little sales and not favoured. Sales and especially kitchen sales is not an easy trade to be in! Please bear this in mind next time you go not a company to complete designs for you, when you have no intention of dealing with them.
Griff Boy said:
I'm sorry to have to say this, but this attitude really annoys me. I run a kitchen and bathroom business and hearing about people going into companies with absolutely no intention of buying their products, but just taking advantage of their "free design service" really irritates me. Do you think that magnet salesmen are not paid on commission? Or that they are working just for the fun of it because they have nothing better to do?
These people might have missed a genuine enquiry whilst dealing with someone like yourself, who is happy just to waste their time and efforts.
Free designs are not free, they cost time and money for the company involved. It's because of people like yourself that a lot of local companies are looking to charge for designs.
As a business owner,I understand and happily accept that we will not, and indeed can not expect to get 100% orders from all enquiries, but I do not think it's unreasonable to expect that people who do ask for our proffesional services to at least give us the courtesy of considering us as suppliers of the kitchens. are you aware that an average design can take approx 2-3 hours of work, and more if it is surveyed? Would you expect a solicitor to work for free for you for 3 hours?
I'm sorry for ranting here, but why not do your research first, decide on your budget and tell the salesman it, find out who supplies the type and style of kitchen you require and then get the preferred company to design the layout for you, at least then they might have a chance of getting " a sale"
Before setting up for myself I was a manager of a big branch of magnet in Scotland, and I can assure you all salesmen and women get grilled on all enquiries they have taken by their line managers, and conversion rates are calculated of this. People who take lots of enquiries and produce little sales and not favoured. Sales and especially kitchen sales is not an easy trade to be in! Please bear this in mind next time you go not a company to complete designs for you, when you have no intention of dealing with them.
It does work both ways though, why do the salesman go in with sky high list prices knowing full well they can sell at 50% off? They're just trying to fleece the odd mug who'll not ask for a discount. Sorry, if I'm spending 10K on a kitchen then I'll take advantage of every opportunity to get advice and a better deal.These people might have missed a genuine enquiry whilst dealing with someone like yourself, who is happy just to waste their time and efforts.
Free designs are not free, they cost time and money for the company involved. It's because of people like yourself that a lot of local companies are looking to charge for designs.
As a business owner,I understand and happily accept that we will not, and indeed can not expect to get 100% orders from all enquiries, but I do not think it's unreasonable to expect that people who do ask for our proffesional services to at least give us the courtesy of considering us as suppliers of the kitchens. are you aware that an average design can take approx 2-3 hours of work, and more if it is surveyed? Would you expect a solicitor to work for free for you for 3 hours?
I'm sorry for ranting here, but why not do your research first, decide on your budget and tell the salesman it, find out who supplies the type and style of kitchen you require and then get the preferred company to design the layout for you, at least then they might have a chance of getting " a sale"
Before setting up for myself I was a manager of a big branch of magnet in Scotland, and I can assure you all salesmen and women get grilled on all enquiries they have taken by their line managers, and conversion rates are calculated of this. People who take lots of enquiries and produce little sales and not favoured. Sales and especially kitchen sales is not an easy trade to be in! Please bear this in mind next time you go not a company to complete designs for you, when you have no intention of dealing with them.
cjs said:
It does work both ways though, why do the salesman go in with sky high list prices knowing full well they can sell at 50% off? They're just trying to fleece the odd mug who'll not ask for a discount. Sorry, if I'm spending 10K on a kitchen then I'll take advantage of every opportunity to get advice and a better deal.
Agree. No sympathy for Griff Boy i'm afraid although there are good and bad in all walk of life (I'm sure he's a good un!).I had designs done by Howdens, Wickes and Wren. All of which must have taken signifcant time. All lost the business to Ikea due to being double the price in some cases, for no real reason. I would have genuinely bought from them at the right price though.
Like any sales profession, the chaps doing it don't give a fvck about you, just your money. And they seem to assume by defualt that you are A). a numpty and B). have money to burn. I think nothing of them "wasting" a bit of time to be honest.
Griff Boy said:
Toilet Duck said:
Hello
I need around 14 units, its a fairly small kitchen. Magnets came out at about £9K in their "sale" which is an utter joke, but I only went there in the first place just to get the design measurements etc. I've looked at B&Q which are a far more reasonable price (have not worked it out exactly)
I'm sorry to have to say this, but this attitude really annoys me. I run a kitchen and bathroom business and hearing about people going into companies with absolutely no intention of buying their products, but just taking advantage of their "free design service" really irritates me. Do you think that magnet salesmen are not paid on commission? Or that they are working just for the fun of it because they have nothing better to do? I need around 14 units, its a fairly small kitchen. Magnets came out at about £9K in their "sale" which is an utter joke, but I only went there in the first place just to get the design measurements etc. I've looked at B&Q which are a far more reasonable price (have not worked it out exactly)
These people might have missed a genuine enquiry whilst dealing with someone like yourself, who is happy just to waste their time and efforts.
Free designs are not free, they cost time and money for the company involved. It's because of people like yourself that a lot of local companies are looking to charge for designs.
As an example, we'd like a 900 width glass tambour unit, with pan drawers underneath.
Sounds easy. But Magnet don't do either. 800 pans, 500 steel tambour.
300/400/450/500/600/800/900 widths of the same unit just aren't available at Magnet anymore.
And don't get me started on their prices..
If people had to pay for a design, I suspect they might go elsewhere - you don't have to pay to listen to a hifi, or test drive a car. Must be annoying to read that someone just used Magnet for their design ability, but that's business I suppose - and there's enough people happy to pay Magnet 9 grand or BnQ 3 grand to keep the huge glass showrooms going, when they could possibly have found a locally owned firm that'd do the same or better for less
Griff Boy said:
I'm sorry to have to say this, but this attitude really annoys me. I run a kitchen and bathroom business and hearing about people going into companies with absolutely no intention of buying their products, but just taking advantage of their "free design service" really irritates me. Do you think that magnet salesmen are not paid on commission? Or that they are working just for the fun of it because they have nothing better to do?
These people might have missed a genuine enquiry whilst dealing with someone like yourself, who is happy just to waste their time and efforts.
Free designs are not free, they cost time and money for the company involved. It's because of people like yourself that a lot of local companies are looking to charge for designs.
As a business owner,I understand and happily accept that we will not, and indeed can not expect to get 100% orders from all enquiries, but I do not think it's unreasonable to expect that people who do ask for our proffesional services to at least give us the courtesy of considering us as suppliers of the kitchens. are you aware that an average design can take approx 2-3 hours of work, and more if it is surveyed? Would you expect a solicitor to work for free for you for 3 hours?
I'm sorry for ranting here, but why not do your research first, decide on your budget and tell the salesman it, find out who supplies the type and style of kitchen you require and then get the preferred company to design the layout for you, at least then they might have a chance of getting " a sale"
Before setting up for myself I was a manager of a big branch of magnet in Scotland, and I can assure you all salesmen and women get grilled on all enquiries they have taken by their line managers, and conversion rates are calculated of this. People who take lots of enquiries and produce little sales and not favoured. Sales and especially kitchen sales is not an easy trade to be in! Please bear this in mind next time you go not a company to complete designs for you, when you have no intention of dealing with them.
Agree 100%, having my own kitchen & Bathroom business too it's so frustrating when people use you as a design service! These people might have missed a genuine enquiry whilst dealing with someone like yourself, who is happy just to waste their time and efforts.
Free designs are not free, they cost time and money for the company involved. It's because of people like yourself that a lot of local companies are looking to charge for designs.
As a business owner,I understand and happily accept that we will not, and indeed can not expect to get 100% orders from all enquiries, but I do not think it's unreasonable to expect that people who do ask for our proffesional services to at least give us the courtesy of considering us as suppliers of the kitchens. are you aware that an average design can take approx 2-3 hours of work, and more if it is surveyed? Would you expect a solicitor to work for free for you for 3 hours?
I'm sorry for ranting here, but why not do your research first, decide on your budget and tell the salesman it, find out who supplies the type and style of kitchen you require and then get the preferred company to design the layout for you, at least then they might have a chance of getting " a sale"
Before setting up for myself I was a manager of a big branch of magnet in Scotland, and I can assure you all salesmen and women get grilled on all enquiries they have taken by their line managers, and conversion rates are calculated of this. People who take lots of enquiries and produce little sales and not favoured. Sales and especially kitchen sales is not an easy trade to be in! Please bear this in mind next time you go not a company to complete designs for you, when you have no intention of dealing with them.
GTO-3R said:
Agree 100%, having my own kitchen & Bathroom business too it's so frustrating when people use you as a design service!
But is that not what the sales man is for, to turn the design into a sale?? I know it might be fustrating but having been both sides of this coin I'd never feel sorry for a sales man.!Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff