E39 M5 V8 - additional power?
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm starting another project and am after some thoughts on extracting more power from the S62 engine.
Due to the type of project I'll not have to run cats in the exhaust and I plan on using a stand alone ecu (Emerald, perhaps).
Now I know the Ascari A10 had in the region of 625bhp, however that must have cost a bundle to extract. I'm looking at circa 500bhp.
What do you reckon will be required (I don't want to go FI).
Cheers,
C.
I'm starting another project and am after some thoughts on extracting more power from the S62 engine.
Due to the type of project I'll not have to run cats in the exhaust and I plan on using a stand alone ecu (Emerald, perhaps).
Now I know the Ascari A10 had in the region of 625bhp, however that must have cost a bundle to extract. I'm looking at circa 500bhp.
What do you reckon will be required (I don't want to go FI).
Cheers,
C.
Geoff Steel Racing are about to finish the re-built of a Nowack 500 which belongs to a mate. To get 500bhp Nowack used the following: cams, exhaust manifolds, 100 cell cats and custom exhaust, and enlarged throttle bodies/trumpets. The cars never quite made the claimed bhp due to extremely crude mapping of fueling, ignition advance and vanos mapping. The GSR rebuilt will make around 500bhp due to slighlty higher compression pistons and proper mapping. The most powerful S62 that I have seen was another Nowack, this time in a race 850CSi in the 24hrs of the Ring in 2005 - that made 560bhp but was running Motec... Btw, the BMW ECU is pretty good, you just have to know how to map it...
Hiya,
I'd also put forward that to get anywhere near 500 bhp out of an S62 without forced induction will cost massive amounts of money. Around £2000 for manifolds/headers will provide perhaps 32-36 BHP, I've no idea how much 100 cell cats cost but I'll hazard a guess they're not £100!, a full BHP liberating exhaust perhaps from Eisenmann or Akrapovic would be £3000-4000 and perhaps provide you with another 15-18 BHP. Assuming the 100 cell cats give maybe 8-10 bhp ? ( I don't know !) then all these mods would take you to perhaps 455-465 bhp realistically. I don't know what technologies you'd have to go for nor any lightening, strengthening processes of various internal components to help release power you'd need to go for after these mods, but I'd expect anything that can be done would run several thousand pounds each to get done.
Of course, if you are then running such power, you'd need to uprate your brakes, suspension, bushings etc etc to match the increase in power. Stoptech brakes for instance are highly rated and come in around £4000 for the front and rears, Brembo's would perhaps be £5000 ish. Suspension would be £1500-2000 for the highly rated Bilstein PSS9's and there's various good things being said about Nitron suspension.
Or spend alot less, get it supercharged and see a much easier 150(ish) bhp right away ?!
Cheers, Dennis!
I'd also put forward that to get anywhere near 500 bhp out of an S62 without forced induction will cost massive amounts of money. Around £2000 for manifolds/headers will provide perhaps 32-36 BHP, I've no idea how much 100 cell cats cost but I'll hazard a guess they're not £100!, a full BHP liberating exhaust perhaps from Eisenmann or Akrapovic would be £3000-4000 and perhaps provide you with another 15-18 BHP. Assuming the 100 cell cats give maybe 8-10 bhp ? ( I don't know !) then all these mods would take you to perhaps 455-465 bhp realistically. I don't know what technologies you'd have to go for nor any lightening, strengthening processes of various internal components to help release power you'd need to go for after these mods, but I'd expect anything that can be done would run several thousand pounds each to get done.
Of course, if you are then running such power, you'd need to uprate your brakes, suspension, bushings etc etc to match the increase in power. Stoptech brakes for instance are highly rated and come in around £4000 for the front and rears, Brembo's would perhaps be £5000 ish. Suspension would be £1500-2000 for the highly rated Bilstein PSS9's and there's various good things being said about Nitron suspension.
Or spend alot less, get it supercharged and see a much easier 150(ish) bhp right away ?!
Cheers, Dennis!
DennisCooper said:
Hiya,
I'd also put forward that to get anywhere near 500 bhp out of an S62 without forced induction will cost massive amounts of money. Around £2000 for manifolds/headers will provide perhaps 32-36 BHP, I've no idea how much 100 cell cats cost but I'll hazard a guess they're not £100!, a full BHP liberating exhaust perhaps from Eisenmann or Akrapovic would be £3000-4000 and perhaps provide you with another 15-18 BHP. Assuming the 100 cell cats give maybe 8-10 bhp ? ( I don't know !) then all these mods would take you to perhaps 455-465 bhp realistically. I don't know what technologies you'd have to go for nor any lightening, strengthening processes of various internal components to help release power you'd need to go for after these mods, but I'd expect anything that can be done would run several thousand pounds each to get done.
Of course, if you are then running such power, you'd need to uprate your brakes, suspension, bushings etc etc to match the increase in power. Stoptech brakes for instance are highly rated and come in around £4000 for the front and rears, Brembo's would perhaps be £5000 ish. Suspension would be £1500-2000 for the highly rated Bilstein PSS9's and there's various good things being said about Nitron suspension.
Or spend alot less, get it supercharged and see a much easier 150(ish) bhp right away ?!
Cheers, Dennis!
You've not actually read the OP have you?I'd also put forward that to get anywhere near 500 bhp out of an S62 without forced induction will cost massive amounts of money. Around £2000 for manifolds/headers will provide perhaps 32-36 BHP, I've no idea how much 100 cell cats cost but I'll hazard a guess they're not £100!, a full BHP liberating exhaust perhaps from Eisenmann or Akrapovic would be £3000-4000 and perhaps provide you with another 15-18 BHP. Assuming the 100 cell cats give maybe 8-10 bhp ? ( I don't know !) then all these mods would take you to perhaps 455-465 bhp realistically. I don't know what technologies you'd have to go for nor any lightening, strengthening processes of various internal components to help release power you'd need to go for after these mods, but I'd expect anything that can be done would run several thousand pounds each to get done.
Of course, if you are then running such power, you'd need to uprate your brakes, suspension, bushings etc etc to match the increase in power. Stoptech brakes for instance are highly rated and come in around £4000 for the front and rears, Brembo's would perhaps be £5000 ish. Suspension would be £1500-2000 for the highly rated Bilstein PSS9's and there's various good things being said about Nitron suspension.
Or spend alot less, get it supercharged and see a much easier 150(ish) bhp right away ?!
Cheers, Dennis!
DennisCooper said:
Hiya,
I'd also put forward that to get anywhere near 500 bhp out of an S62 without forced induction will cost massive amounts of money. Around £2000 for manifolds/headers will provide perhaps 32-36 BHP, I've no idea how much 100 cell cats cost but I'll hazard a guess they're not £100!, a full BHP liberating exhaust perhaps from Eisenmann or Akrapovic would be £3000-4000 and perhaps provide you with another 15-18 BHP. Assuming the 100 cell cats give maybe 8-10 bhp ? ( I don't know !) then all these mods would take you to perhaps 455-465 bhp realistically. I don't know what technologies you'd have to go for nor any lightening, strengthening processes of various internal components to help release power you'd need to go for after these mods, but I'd expect anything that can be done would run several thousand pounds each to get done.
Of course, if you are then running such power, you'd need to uprate your brakes, suspension, bushings etc etc to match the increase in power. Stoptech brakes for instance are highly rated and come in around £4000 for the front and rears, Brembo's would perhaps be £5000 ish. Suspension would be £1500-2000 for the highly rated Bilstein PSS9's and there's various good things being said about Nitron suspension.
Or spend alot less, get it supercharged and see a much easier 150(ish) bhp right away ?!
Cheers, Dennis!
Hi Dennis,I'd also put forward that to get anywhere near 500 bhp out of an S62 without forced induction will cost massive amounts of money. Around £2000 for manifolds/headers will provide perhaps 32-36 BHP, I've no idea how much 100 cell cats cost but I'll hazard a guess they're not £100!, a full BHP liberating exhaust perhaps from Eisenmann or Akrapovic would be £3000-4000 and perhaps provide you with another 15-18 BHP. Assuming the 100 cell cats give maybe 8-10 bhp ? ( I don't know !) then all these mods would take you to perhaps 455-465 bhp realistically. I don't know what technologies you'd have to go for nor any lightening, strengthening processes of various internal components to help release power you'd need to go for after these mods, but I'd expect anything that can be done would run several thousand pounds each to get done.
Of course, if you are then running such power, you'd need to uprate your brakes, suspension, bushings etc etc to match the increase in power. Stoptech brakes for instance are highly rated and come in around £4000 for the front and rears, Brembo's would perhaps be £5000 ish. Suspension would be £1500-2000 for the highly rated Bilstein PSS9's and there's various good things being said about Nitron suspension.
Or spend alot less, get it supercharged and see a much easier 150(ish) bhp right away ?!
Cheers, Dennis!
The car is already all sorted with regards to brakes, suspension, full multi point FIA/MSA spec cage and a nice paint job (if you like red!). Also I don't need to run cats in the exhaust due to the age of the car.
I'm not interested in FI and supercharging the S62 is not cheap at all. If 625bhp is acheivable then 500 should be somewhat easier I reckon.
Vixpy
Yes, you are right, I didn't carefully read as I should've done!
So no need for cats or an exhaust, so I now think it's a track car/project?!
I guess I'd like to learn from those much more experienced than me, on just how to take an S62 from standard to circa 500 bhp with no Forced Induction, no need for racing cats nor an exhaust. There's mentions of these 625 bhp examples, how were they done? I've not read any E39 M5's that have 500+ Bhp which haven't been Super or Turbo charged, so thinking how to do it.
Would I be right in thinking all the internals are strengthened up? new components made to handle the increased stresses and working conditions? those machined from solid crankshafts, race level engine management etc etc would give 500+ and in the instance mentioned 625 bhp?
(learning mode on and pencil paper at the ready!)
cheers, Dennis!
Yes, you are right, I didn't carefully read as I should've done!
So no need for cats or an exhaust, so I now think it's a track car/project?!
I guess I'd like to learn from those much more experienced than me, on just how to take an S62 from standard to circa 500 bhp with no Forced Induction, no need for racing cats nor an exhaust. There's mentions of these 625 bhp examples, how were they done? I've not read any E39 M5's that have 500+ Bhp which haven't been Super or Turbo charged, so thinking how to do it.
Would I be right in thinking all the internals are strengthened up? new components made to handle the increased stresses and working conditions? those machined from solid crankshafts, race level engine management etc etc would give 500+ and in the instance mentioned 625 bhp?
(learning mode on and pencil paper at the ready!)
cheers, Dennis!
Induction and exhaust improvements, stronger/lighter drivetrain components capable of high rmps for extended periods, race spec cams, heavy duty ignition and fueling, advanced tuning.
Very expensive.
FI would be a much better way to go but I guess that you are limited by competition rules?
Very expensive.
FI would be a much better way to go but I guess that you are limited by competition rules?
TEKNOPUG said:
Induction and exhaust improvements, stronger/lighter drivetrain components capable of high rmps for extended periods, race spec cams, heavy duty ignition and fueling, advanced tuning.
Very expensive.
FI would be a much better way to go but I guess that you are limited by competition rules?
FI is not a much better way to go - the gearbox and diff start to struggle with the torque... Racing - you are right - 1.4x capacity which will bring you in to 7.0ltrs - most classes go up to 6.2 or you will be with the really big boys which gets expensive...Very expensive.
FI would be a much better way to go but I guess that you are limited by competition rules?
Racing is expensive - that is a fact of life - to get a reliable race 500bhp S62 you will be spending £10k + the cost of the engine...
Cheburator mk2 said:
FI is not a much better way to go - the gearbox and diff start to struggle with the torque... Racing - you are right - 1.4x capacity which will bring you in to 7.0ltrs - most classes go up to 6.2 or you will be with the really big boys which gets expensive...
Racing is expensive - that is a fact of life - to get a reliable race 500bhp S62 you will be spending £10k + the cost of the engine...
It'll not be a race car, just a fun beastie for track days and the road. Perhaps some sealed sprints and hill climbs too.Racing is expensive - that is a fact of life - to get a reliable race 500bhp S62 you will be spending £10k + the cost of the engine...
The projected weight is 1000kg (wet, but without me in it). Hence why I'm aiming at 500bhp. If the quote I'm yet to receive for extracting another 100 out of the S62 is too daft for the project I'll settle for less. I'm sure the performance will still be rather brisk
I would certainly consider Evolve in Luton ~ they've been developing upgrades for the E39 M5 for some time now. Have a search online about their work ~ always brings up compliments and superlatives. My E36 EVO was leagues better after they'd 'fettled' it.
http://www.evo-s.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=6_2376
http://www.evo-s.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=6_2376
Edited by CRACKIE on Tuesday 22 February 21:10
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