Discussion
I`ve just been reading the Sunday Times `ingear` supplement about the `M600 Carbon` by Andrew Frankel. The general tone is that it`s much better than the car previously shown to the press which begs the question why they did that - and the performance goes from exciting to utterly deranged depending upon what power option is selected. However what caught my attention was the comment from Peter Boutwood saying he was really annoyed with people comparing the car to the McLaren MP4-12C and the Ferrari 458 as his car is `hand built` and should really be compared with the Pagani Zonda. Well isn`t a Caterham `hand built` and certainly Marcos and TVRs were - and probably a Morgan has more `hand work` in it than the M600. I also doubt any robots are used for the McLaren and Ferrari builds. I agree the car looks much better now but it`s no Zonda and when you look at the new Pagani Huayra with its active aero and suspension and ESP etc it`s on another planet, and the construction is a true work of art. Yes it costs 5 times more but if Peters statement is correct he thinks the M600 car is a direct competitor at a knock down price. Comments/opinions?
Hi Bob , i read the artical on the new Pagani Huayra in Evo mag this month , interesting looking car !! but crap the interior 
i think Peter is trying to point out that as a hand built car you can choose whatever you want and watch the build as it progreses it can be a very personal experience , also have you seen the Carbon M600 in the flesh ?? the quality of the finish and fit is outstanding and the panal gaps are first rate unlike the last pagani i looked at !!!!
i think Peter is trying to point out that as a hand built car you can choose whatever you want and watch the build as it progreses it can be a very personal experience , also have you seen the Carbon M600 in the flesh ?? the quality of the finish and fit is outstanding and the panal gaps are first rate unlike the last pagani i looked at !!!!
Well at Autosport I told Peter I believed the M600 they had on show was more a competitor for the Pegani Zonda and keoniggseg than the Mclaren or Ferrai lol
Totally agree that the new Pegani is another step up but having looked closelly at the original Zonda and the M600 they displayed I think the performance, quality and general cohesivness are of the same level and a step up from the ferrari etc.
Of cause for styling I think the M600 is going for a more subtle look like the Keonigsegg rather than the in your face Zonda.
I used to be extremelly critical of the M600 and thought they had messed up with their price point.... im still disapointed that they are in a price band that will mean I wont ever upgrade from my M12.
However seeing the new car up close has changed my view, I can see the car is actually worth its 200k price... shock did I really say that lol
Totally agree that the new Pegani is another step up but having looked closelly at the original Zonda and the M600 they displayed I think the performance, quality and general cohesivness are of the same level and a step up from the ferrari etc.
Of cause for styling I think the M600 is going for a more subtle look like the Keonigsegg rather than the in your face Zonda.
I used to be extremelly critical of the M600 and thought they had messed up with their price point.... im still disapointed that they are in a price band that will mean I wont ever upgrade from my M12.
However seeing the new car up close has changed my view, I can see the car is actually worth its 200k price... shock did I really say that lol
The Pagani Zonda in my opinion is one of the bext supercars ever produced, with a perfect blend of style and performance, again its down to the market, most people who have money for a M600 also have money for a Zonda(maybe not the new one though), and at that level image is everything, i.e. most buyers will want to look good pulling up outside a trendy restaurant or club. Ferrari and Zonda have the name, they are also the type of cars that kids will pin up on their bedroom wall.
The M600 is no doubt worth every penny and is probably superior in many ways, but Peter boutwood is never going to get away from people comparing to the likes of the 458 because people naturally do comparisons, and one glaring comparison will always be this "for 50k less you can get a 458!" unfortunately for Noble this car came out at a time when the competitors had just taken their cars up a couple of notches. There will be some people that buy the M600 because they are in the know, but i think most people with the money to buy this car will not care about the extra bit of performance, they will buying an image, they will be buying a status symbol.
I think they need to market this car on a much bigger scale in order to make it into something somebody would want to buy to show their status, people all over the world know what a Pagani Zonda is, but if nobody knows what a Noble M600 is then how can rich people ever buy it as a advertisement of their financial status, the M600 is in the same boat as the M12, in that people will still ask "who makes Noble?" and if you have just spent 200k, you really do not want to have to spend time telling people how good it is, i'm sure if you pulled up in a 458 or a Pagani Zonda you would not have to explain to anybody about how good the car is, they would just give you a nod of ackknowledgement.
I love the M600, but i would not buy one if i had the money due to the above factors, i think they got the target market and buiness model wrong, they should have gone for either 100 - 120k market or they should have gone a step further with the technology and styling on the car and put it into the hypercar market at 350k.
Now scenario 2 is a car like the Fenix(if it ever makes it to production), Lee has his target market and business model correct, a car that will probably have similar performance if not better due to the supercharger and is 50k cheaper than a 458, now people may start thinking "this is tempting". Top gear would critically aclaim it as the best bang for buck like they did with the M12, and if it does what it says on the tin, then it will be seen as a viable alternative to 911's, R8's etc..
Although the M600 has really impressed me with quality of finish and performance and is worth every penny at 200k, i still think they missed the target audience which was an alternative to a 458, where as Pagani which is more expensive is directly targeting a certain market and is frankly in a different league to the M600, i.e. the Zonda is a status symbol for the rich and famous, i doubt the M600 is ever going to reach that same status and is why they should have aimed for the market below which was 458 territory.
Its like being a very skilled boxer and only just weighing enough to enter the heavyweight division, you just would not do it, instead you would lose a few pounds and rule the middleweight division.
The M600 is no doubt worth every penny and is probably superior in many ways, but Peter boutwood is never going to get away from people comparing to the likes of the 458 because people naturally do comparisons, and one glaring comparison will always be this "for 50k less you can get a 458!" unfortunately for Noble this car came out at a time when the competitors had just taken their cars up a couple of notches. There will be some people that buy the M600 because they are in the know, but i think most people with the money to buy this car will not care about the extra bit of performance, they will buying an image, they will be buying a status symbol.
I think they need to market this car on a much bigger scale in order to make it into something somebody would want to buy to show their status, people all over the world know what a Pagani Zonda is, but if nobody knows what a Noble M600 is then how can rich people ever buy it as a advertisement of their financial status, the M600 is in the same boat as the M12, in that people will still ask "who makes Noble?" and if you have just spent 200k, you really do not want to have to spend time telling people how good it is, i'm sure if you pulled up in a 458 or a Pagani Zonda you would not have to explain to anybody about how good the car is, they would just give you a nod of ackknowledgement.
I love the M600, but i would not buy one if i had the money due to the above factors, i think they got the target market and buiness model wrong, they should have gone for either 100 - 120k market or they should have gone a step further with the technology and styling on the car and put it into the hypercar market at 350k.
Now scenario 2 is a car like the Fenix(if it ever makes it to production), Lee has his target market and business model correct, a car that will probably have similar performance if not better due to the supercharger and is 50k cheaper than a 458, now people may start thinking "this is tempting". Top gear would critically aclaim it as the best bang for buck like they did with the M12, and if it does what it says on the tin, then it will be seen as a viable alternative to 911's, R8's etc..
Although the M600 has really impressed me with quality of finish and performance and is worth every penny at 200k, i still think they missed the target audience which was an alternative to a 458, where as Pagani which is more expensive is directly targeting a certain market and is frankly in a different league to the M600, i.e. the Zonda is a status symbol for the rich and famous, i doubt the M600 is ever going to reach that same status and is why they should have aimed for the market below which was 458 territory.
Its like being a very skilled boxer and only just weighing enough to enter the heavyweight division, you just would not do it, instead you would lose a few pounds and rule the middleweight division.
I've been to Peter Smith sports cars today, to see the Noble M600 carbon.
What a car WOW, the attention to detail is incredible; every time you look at he car from a different angle you just seem to see some other detail.
The build quality and finish is first class, if you’re in the Derby area over the weekend I recommend you pay a visit.
What a car WOW, the attention to detail is incredible; every time you look at he car from a different angle you just seem to see some other detail.
The build quality and finish is first class, if you’re in the Derby area over the weekend I recommend you pay a visit.
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