Help PH - garage ripped off my mate..
Discussion
Hi PH,
Saga done very briefly, to avoid any emotional content:
My wife's mate (female, not a car person) went on holiday for 4 weeks, left car (MX5 mk2) outside, witht he handbrake on. Car last had full set of disks and pads all round in August 2010.
The inevitable happens, and the brakes were stuck when she first came back. She moved the car, freed the brakes, but then had the "warped disks" feeling from the cack on the disks.
Not knowing what this was, she took the car to the garage round the corner. They said 120 quid to replace the pads / disks, or as they put it "to sort it out".
Later that day, they tell her that she needs 2 rear calipers. Whole job 300 quid.
Car returned, brake shudder just as bad as ever - the front disks had friction material / rust issues.
She took the car back to them, and they used emery cloth / wet and dry on the front disks, then fitted new pads to the front. This ws under some sufference, but they said they would do it out of goodwill.
Car returned, and the front end squeals massively. I mean more than Pagid yellows when cold squeal. It's horrid. Light pressure is terrible, hard braking is slightly better. As the "friend who knows cars", I have been introduced at this point. I tried taking the car out and doing 25 mins of heavy start stp to see if I could bed them in, but it;s no better.
So she goes back today, and the garage say "we used cheap pads on the front because we did it out of goodwill". "you'lll have to spend money on better pads if you want to sort it".
She explained her har is her pride and joy, to which the garage owner replied "well pride costs money, innit", smirked, and left her there. The mechanic then sent her packing.
Firstly, I think all the remedial work they did has been a botch from the start:
Replaced disks not skimmed / drive through it
Replaced rear calipers for no apparent reason whatsoever (handbrake was not stuck on, car free but wobbly under braking)
Removed front pads (new ish), replaced with "cheap pads that squeal"
Sadly, she paid 300 quid cash ("our machine has broken"), so I can't get her to ask them for help. I'm not emotionally involved, but feeel that the garage hasn't completed the job - or shown any care about their customer. I suspect that either the anti squal shim has been chucked, or possibly they have indeed put some horrendous pads on - but what cheap pads squeal that much? (it's like the like metal on metal squal you get if people run their pads down to 0).
So Ph, what can I suggest / do to help the poor girl? I'm thinking that possibly it's a job for citizens advice, or trading standards - but I'm certainly not going to mention that horrendous C word - she just wants her car back to the way it was, even if she has to put the £300 rip down to experience (4 disks and pads last year was £160)..
Saga done very briefly, to avoid any emotional content:
My wife's mate (female, not a car person) went on holiday for 4 weeks, left car (MX5 mk2) outside, witht he handbrake on. Car last had full set of disks and pads all round in August 2010.
The inevitable happens, and the brakes were stuck when she first came back. She moved the car, freed the brakes, but then had the "warped disks" feeling from the cack on the disks.
Not knowing what this was, she took the car to the garage round the corner. They said 120 quid to replace the pads / disks, or as they put it "to sort it out".
Later that day, they tell her that she needs 2 rear calipers. Whole job 300 quid.
Car returned, brake shudder just as bad as ever - the front disks had friction material / rust issues.
She took the car back to them, and they used emery cloth / wet and dry on the front disks, then fitted new pads to the front. This ws under some sufference, but they said they would do it out of goodwill.
Car returned, and the front end squeals massively. I mean more than Pagid yellows when cold squeal. It's horrid. Light pressure is terrible, hard braking is slightly better. As the "friend who knows cars", I have been introduced at this point. I tried taking the car out and doing 25 mins of heavy start stp to see if I could bed them in, but it;s no better.
So she goes back today, and the garage say "we used cheap pads on the front because we did it out of goodwill". "you'lll have to spend money on better pads if you want to sort it".
She explained her har is her pride and joy, to which the garage owner replied "well pride costs money, innit", smirked, and left her there. The mechanic then sent her packing.
Firstly, I think all the remedial work they did has been a botch from the start:
Replaced disks not skimmed / drive through it
Replaced rear calipers for no apparent reason whatsoever (handbrake was not stuck on, car free but wobbly under braking)
Removed front pads (new ish), replaced with "cheap pads that squeal"
Sadly, she paid 300 quid cash ("our machine has broken"), so I can't get her to ask them for help. I'm not emotionally involved, but feeel that the garage hasn't completed the job - or shown any care about their customer. I suspect that either the anti squal shim has been chucked, or possibly they have indeed put some horrendous pads on - but what cheap pads squeal that much? (it's like the like metal on metal squal you get if people run their pads down to 0).
So Ph, what can I suggest / do to help the poor girl? I'm thinking that possibly it's a job for citizens advice, or trading standards - but I'm certainly not going to mention that horrendous C word - she just wants her car back to the way it was, even if she has to put the £300 rip down to experience (4 disks and pads last year was £160)..
I think your answers in the last line of your post. "Discs and pads were £160 last year" Take it to who ever did that, and ask if they would do it again on the front.
To be fair, our mx5 had sticky back calipers and we had them changed along with all new discs and pads. Huge difference, The car drove really well after that.
It sounds like They've done what was needed at the back. Then she went back and wanted them to fix the front for nothing. Then she's not happy they did a crap job. I may have got the wrong end of the stick here??
To be fair, our mx5 had sticky back calipers and we had them changed along with all new discs and pads. Huge difference, The car drove really well after that.
It sounds like They've done what was needed at the back. Then she went back and wanted them to fix the front for nothing. Then she's not happy they did a crap job. I may have got the wrong end of the stick here??
Also. Are you suggesting they should have skimmed the discs on a lathe instead of replacing? I could be wrong but I don't think this happens anymore. Especialy when discs are so cheap to replace. We just had discs and pads all round on our current MX5 along with a full service for £240. I'm not sure how much the discs were but i'm guessing about £20 each?
Thanks for the input.
I am really suggesting this: Girl took car to garage, they said 120 to fix.
They call back it's 300 to fix. She agrees.
Gets car back, they claim "ahh, we only fixed the back. If you want the front fixed, that'll be extra".
At no point was there any discusssion as to what work was to be done - it's impossible to discuss a subject when one half of the discussion literally does not have a clue about the subject at hand.
If needed, I can put disks / pads on for her very easily. I'm more miffed that she's spunked 300 quid to not fix the car! My personal goal is to see that she can get back to enjoying the car again, ideally with no additional outlay.
I am really suggesting this: Girl took car to garage, they said 120 to fix.
They call back it's 300 to fix. She agrees.
Gets car back, they claim "ahh, we only fixed the back. If you want the front fixed, that'll be extra".
At no point was there any discusssion as to what work was to be done - it's impossible to discuss a subject when one half of the discussion literally does not have a clue about the subject at hand.
If needed, I can put disks / pads on for her very easily. I'm more miffed that she's spunked 300 quid to not fix the car! My personal goal is to see that she can get back to enjoying the car again, ideally with no additional outlay.
Not sure what you are hoping to get myself. I was going to offer to swop her pads/disks if required foc if she was kent local (obv she would pay for bits) as its not a hard job to save her labour costs however she is far side of country it looks like.
TBH it sounds like a change of pads or maybe just some copper grease on the back of the pads would solve the squealing problem.
So first port of call is i would siggest popping round to hers pull the wheels off put some copper grease on the pads and take it for a spin and see. If it still squeals get a set of mazda pads stick those on. If it still squeals after that then stick a pair of mazda disks on as well.
If she is willing to suffe the cost do disks and pads both in one go.
TBH it sounds like a change of pads or maybe just some copper grease on the back of the pads would solve the squealing problem.
So first port of call is i would siggest popping round to hers pull the wheels off put some copper grease on the pads and take it for a spin and see. If it still squeals get a set of mazda pads stick those on. If it still squeals after that then stick a pair of mazda disks on as well.
If she is willing to suffe the cost do disks and pads both in one go.
To be devils advocate:
Woman turns up at garage says "how much to fix the rear brakes".
Estimate for £120 for discs/pads on rear (sounds a reasonable price to me).
Garage starts work, finds that the calipers are knackered, recommend replacement at £300 all-in (again, a good price), customer agrees.
Customer gets car back, work that has been performed is fine, but complains that now the front brakes are vibrating.
Out of good will garage tries changing front pads - juddering fixed, but some squealing.
To be honest I don't think the garage are that unreasonable - depends on what they were asked to do...."fix the problem" or "fix the back brakes" - sounds like the latter. Going from £120 to £300 if the rear calipers needed to be replaced isn't unreasonable and sounds like she authorised the work, so has no reason for complaint there.
Woman turns up at garage says "how much to fix the rear brakes".
Estimate for £120 for discs/pads on rear (sounds a reasonable price to me).
Garage starts work, finds that the calipers are knackered, recommend replacement at £300 all-in (again, a good price), customer agrees.
Customer gets car back, work that has been performed is fine, but complains that now the front brakes are vibrating.
Out of good will garage tries changing front pads - juddering fixed, but some squealing.
To be honest I don't think the garage are that unreasonable - depends on what they were asked to do...."fix the problem" or "fix the back brakes" - sounds like the latter. Going from £120 to £300 if the rear calipers needed to be replaced isn't unreasonable and sounds like she authorised the work, so has no reason for complaint there.
Where abouts in the North-West are you? I dont mind having a look/giving opinion or even helping change disks/pads if you wanted for new ones. I hate it when garages rip people off to make a quick few quid. Its why I always do my own work and if its something I can't do then it always goes to a specific garage who's owners I know quite well after chatting with them both and are the only people i would trust working on my car!
In response to questions:
She explained symptoms, not "fix the rear". I would put money on it that she doesn't even know which axle the handbrake operates on. As part of the original work, they had all 4 corners off the car (evidenced by fingerprints on the winter grimed wheels) - so they at least looked at it.
Thanks to other posters offering assitance - it's appreciated. I can easily change the disks / pads myself, and will do so if necessary. however, I wanted to know what stance to take with her / the garage, as I am now involved wether I want to be or not!
She explained symptoms, not "fix the rear". I would put money on it that she doesn't even know which axle the handbrake operates on. As part of the original work, they had all 4 corners off the car (evidenced by fingerprints on the winter grimed wheels) - so they at least looked at it.
Thanks to other posters offering assitance - it's appreciated. I can easily change the disks / pads myself, and will do so if necessary. however, I wanted to know what stance to take with her / the garage, as I am now involved wether I want to be or not!
Hahaha!
Sadly, thats about as far off the mark as you can get - but I do think she's a good lass (wife's best friend), and due to holiday / unexpected 300 quid, she's also skint. She's also only got "arty" friends, so i'm teh sole scapegoat for anything oily / when her towel rail falls off / whatever else =)
Sadly, thats about as far off the mark as you can get - but I do think she's a good lass (wife's best friend), and due to holiday / unexpected 300 quid, she's also skint. She's also only got "arty" friends, so i'm teh sole scapegoat for anything oily / when her towel rail falls off / whatever else =)
sYep, you're right. The day after the original issue, I told her to get her old calipers / disks back, but apparently, the calipers had alledgedly already been sent off to the recon people. Convenient, for them at least.
Sounds like the PH advice is just to put it down to experience, so that's what i'll lead with...
Sounds like the PH advice is just to put it down to experience, so that's what i'll lead with...
Some Gump said:
Yep, you're right. The day after the original issue, I told her to get her old calipers / disks back, but apparently, the calipers had alledgedly already been sent off to the recon people. Convenient, for them at least.
Sounds like the PH advice is just to put it down to experience, so that's what i'll lead with...
It's happened to your mate once, I bet it happens dozens of times a year at that garage. Make sure she asks for all the bits back next time she uses a garage she doesn't know, it makes her sound like she means business. Sounds like the PH advice is just to put it down to experience, so that's what i'll lead with...
Some Gump said:
She explained symptoms, not "fix the rear". I would put money on it that she doesn't even know which axle the handbrake operates on. As part of the original work, they had all 4 corners off the car (evidenced by fingerprints on the winter grimed wheels) - so they at least looked at it.
Ok, but again to play devils advocate pretty much all garages work on a trial and error basis for these kind of repairs - from your description you mentioned the handbrake seizing on, and she probably did the same, so its not an unreasonable assumption that the problem may lie in the rear brakes and to attempt to replace those first - especially if this was confirmed by a visual inspection in which the rears looked in pretty bad shape.So you need to ask - given the description and sequence of events, was it reasonable to try replacing the rear brakes first? Very possibly yes?
Garages are rubbish at explaining that what they do might not work, but you still have to pay for it...and it leads to conflicts on a regular basis...
As for getting the bits back - calipers are often bought on an exchange basis, so probably not possible without additional charge.
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