Turbo head gasket

[TaimarTurbo]

First off let me say hi to everyone, since this is my first post.

I've got a problem with the head gaskets on a Taimar Turbo; the compression is blowing into the cooling system.
The previous owner had problems with this too.
He tried the original Reintz H/G and then had some solid copper ones specially made.
The problem persisted however.

Part of the problem might be that the cylinder heads are not original; they don't have the copper ring in the cylinder head.
(I've yet to take the heads off to see if the valves, springs etc are the right spec.)
I have got one original head with the copper rings.

Question is what to do?
-Modify the heads to take copper or wills rings
-Try a different gasket first, e.g. Cometic

Anyone got some suggestions?

Cheers,

Fred

[Adrian@]

IF this is a standard turbo....IMHO, you need to have the correct rings (they clamp down onto the fire rings) AND use an adhesive to stop the gasket moving sideways.
Adrian@
Been there done that 25 years ago....I have plus 35+ turbo's running all with plus 220BHP and mine plus 292 bhp on either Rheinz or later std gaskets.

Edited by Adrian@ on Tuesday 15th February 14:32

[TaimarTurbo]

Thanks for the reply, Adrian.

Yes, it is an original, standard Turbo.
I believe Burton has the rings, or do you stock them as well?
Finding a shop that can machine the heads shouldn't prove too difficult, I hope.

Do you know if the Turbo head has any more differences besides the rings?

[Boosted LS1]

I'm not sure what your head is like but I can make some general comments that may help. Nearly every turbo engine I've built has been fine on factory specification gaskets up to reasonable boost levels. Several ford v6's started to have head lift at just over 16 psi. One engine was fitted with sodium filled Wills rings. They cost a fortune and the machining to fit them is expensive but the engine now holds over 20 psi and 500 hp.

I never had any success with copper gaskets so personally don't like them. Would it be possible for you to go back to a stock gasket. If the head has been machined to take an additional fire ring then any new ring has to be the correct thickness to allow compression of the stock gasket.

[Adrian@]

OE rings are as simply as welding wire...you then need the gaskets to work out the centre of the fire ring., but then you have a head to look at..This is NOT the cure, the timing is incorrect, the car is detonating and most likely blowing the gasket sideways...DO NOT use any settings from factory newsletters as they ALL apply to 5 star petrol and more than 25/26 TOTAL advance is going to cause detonation, along with this the fueling has to be correct. ALL my car run boost retard system and a host of additional modifications to take them from safe and retarded 185 BHP and 220+ BHP. Adrian@

[TaimarTurbo]

Hi BoostedLS1,

AFAIK the heads or block haven't been modified for the copper gasket in any way.
I saw a photo of it and it looked like it was just a plain, flat sheet of copper with holes punched in them.
So reverting back to the stock Rheinz gaskets is possible.

Cheers,

Fred


Edit: Wow, thanks for that Adrian. I suppose the 25/26 is without the vacuum advance attached?
(The factory newsletter said 38deg BTDC with vacuum advance.)

Edited by TaimarTurbo on Tuesday 15th February 16:11

[Adrian@]

As I said been there done that ..copper head gaskets....replaced TVR wired heads with full race heads Rolling road'ed the car at plus 400BHP and bang, they never survived one run, my current system is bottom feed injectors (within the air box) and full ecu mapped and controlled (the 292BHP was the SAFE usable limit for the car IMHO using a crude blow through carb system) the new car now has a raft of mods to get it to use the new engine along with AP brakes, rear discs, rear ARB, 5 speed converted....too much to list.
Adrian@

[Adrian@]

RE the advance....No, with advance connected! you MIGHT get a good one to run 28 safely, BUT even with boost retard the max I run with a shortened curve is 31...BUT then they have a about 2 days work of modifications within the engine bay to do this.
Adrian@

[TaimarTurbo]

OK, Thanks a lot.

By the way would you recommend having the heads converted to unleaded, since they have to come off anyway.


Fred

[Adrian@]

I really does depend on the cars usage, and IF the car is a permanent attachment to your life! I would say yes, BUT, I have had 3 different people build unleaded heads for me in 30 years (and of those, 2 have dropped seats through the engine) so I only trust one person to do them! If you are only doing small mileage then I would advise CVL turbo.
Adrian@

[Adrian@]

Fred, ignore this bit as an aside within your topic (as I know that you are new to the forum and welcome by the way)just something for the bored amongst the PH classic forum.

I am fearful of getting to technical here and making it all sound like an expedition to the moon ...I really wanted to spout lyrically about halides and oxides BUT stopped myself.
LOL
Adrian@

[TaimarTurbo]

Thanks again, Adrian, much obliged.
And don't worry about getting too technical, I like it.
Scanned through the 98 pages this weekend, looking for interesting threads.

That CVL Turbo stuff is quite expensive: 11UKP for 20Litres, I see your point about the mileage, it adds up quickly to the cost of unleaded conversion if you're refilling more than a couple times a year.

Fred

[thegamekeeper]

Don't worry about the Moon Adrian, it's when people start making trips to Uranus you should be concerned. If it's a recurring problem and Reinz gaskets haven,t worked and given that it has also had cylinder heads replaced i'n the past I would be having a SERIOUS look at the heads themselves. Nanou nanou

[Adrian@]

Too true Steve, last year I threw away seven turbo heads as unusable through them being cracked between the valves.
Adrian@

[TaimarTurbo]

This is what I was planning to do:
-Checking for straightness of the heads + block
-Top cylinder block threads relieved?(deck pulling up)
-Valve springs? (surely the Turbo springs are different)
-Check for porosity,cracks and perhaps have them pressure tested
-Verify static compression (Turbo pistons)
-Check oil pump drive
-Check camshaft drive gear
-Degree camshaft

Fred

[thegamekeeper]

I think I would make some of those "checks" into "replace" as amatter of course. Everything i'n good order Reinz gaskets will be fine. These things don't run enough boost for long enough to be a problem, lot of rubbish talked.

[Adrian@]

Which car is this Fred?
Valve spring are OE ford.
Adrian@

[TaimarTurbo]

4243FM / SHY 770S

Black with a red stripe

You should know it, one of the invoices that came with it said it has been with you for service in 2006.

[Adrian@]

What was the invoice number....Adrian@

[TaimarTurbo]

The invoice number is: 2070
Date: 18/08/2006

Fred