need help 1.3 crossflow

[jamesdavies120]

Hey, new to PH

Got a 1.3 cross flow i'm wanting to tune up as best as it can go with out going race spec.

current thoughts are;
stage 2 head, 234 cam / maybe 244 cam, new piston heads (deepened valves), 40 DCOE carbs with electric fuel pump, lightened fly wheel, new rockers and push rods (up rated), adjustable duplex camshaft chain.

Thats my list so far, can anyone tell me what else i need to get the 120-130 bhp mark? (at least) and what other engine parts may need upgrading to cope with the added power?

many thanks James.

[littlebasher]

http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-gu...

Will the standard crank handle all that top end work?

[ChevronB19]

Umm, I'd say 120-130 BHP out of a crossflow pretty much is race spec, and you definitely won't get it (or indeed have it for long) without a decent crank.

[jamesdavies120]

So new steel crank? is what your saying ?

[deveng]

Why would you go to the trouble of doing all this to a 1.3 cross flow unless racing rules said you couldn't use any other engine?

And if that was the case, surely you'd want race spec?

Utter madness, all of that time money and work for 120bhp, when most standard 1.6s would give you that.

[ChevronB19]

jamesdavies120 said:

So new steel crank? is what your saying ?

Steel crank, yes to achieve that, but bear in mind that one for a pre crossflow (all I have experience with) is about £1800 new. Eek etc. Especially when it ends up orbiting Silverstone after deciding 10K RPM is a bit much! I'd also look at an A6 cam, steel bolts etc. You won't have much power below 5K RPM though. For a useable fast road engine from a 1300 crossflow, aim for about 100 -110 at the flywheel with an A4. What car is it going in out of interest?

We have a 1300 pre crossflow in a 100E race car, and it gets about 110 at the flywheel with a tuftrided crank. Had a 1500 all race with a steel crank - the big money 1500 cc 105E anglias get around 180 BHP, with much investment.

P.S I have to admit I'm not brilliant mechanically - the engines are built by my dad, so what I am saying is received experience.

[jamesdavies120]

Trouble i have is, i'm 17, 1.6 would kill on insurance.
and the 1.3 fits into my car without modification to bulkhead and tunnel.

And i don't plan on racing it anytime soon, more for small street runs.

[jamesdavies120]

ChevronB19 said:

Steel crank, yes to achieve that, but bear in mind that one for a pre crossflow (all I have experience with) is about £1800 new. Eek etc. Especially when it ends up orbiting Silverstone after deciding 10K RPM is a bit much! I'd also look at an A6 cam, steel bolts etc. You won't have much power below 5K RPM though. For a useable fast road engine from a 1300 crossflow, aim for about 100 -110 at the flywheel with an A4. What car is it going in out of interest?

We have a 1300 pre crossflow in a 100E race car, and it gets about 110 at the flywheel with a tuftrided crank. Had a 1500 all race with a steel crank - the big money 1500 cc 105E anglias get around 180 BHP, with much investment.

P.S I have to admit I'm not brilliant mechanically - the engines are built by my dad, so what I am saying is received experience.

thanks
and the car at hand is a 100e infact, thats why i'm wanting a 1.3 conversion to a highish spec. so later on i can take racing.

[Gingerbread Man]

jamesdavies120 said:

Trouble i have is, i'm 17, 1.6 would kill on insurance.
and the 1.3 fits into my car without modification to bulkhead and tunnel.

And i don't plan on racing it anytime soon, more for small street runs.

They'll insure you on a 1.3 crossflow, but you won't get a 1.6, as the insurance would be through the roof. How does the insurance rate a tuned/ modified 1.3 crossflow in comparison?

[MX7]

I take it this is for your Pop? Although I have a 1.6 X-flow with those sorts of figures, there are far better ways of getting 130bhp these days.

[ChevronB19]

jamesdavies120 said:

Trouble i have is, i'm 17, 1.6 would kill on insurance.
and the 1.3 fits into my car without modification to bulkhead and tunnel.

And i don't plan on racing it anytime soon, more for small street runs.

Then in that case, I would strongly recommend that you make only minor mods, polish ports etc, change cam for a fast road one, get the twin 40's (not cheap, but I assume you know that!) for a lovely sound. Improve the brakes first - Austin Princess ones are great and used by loads of racers (which also makes them expensive unfortunately). Let the insurance know, get your dad/mum on it as second drivers, and buy Practical Classics and go through the specialist insurers. Don't know what car you have, but chances are compared to modern ones it'll be light, so circa 90-100BHP will be plenty quick, and open a few peoples eyes!

As an aside, I wish I'd done what you are doing now - I grew up in a family that raced and rallied anything (even my mum, who rolled a Cooper S on a rally whilst she was 6 months pregnant with me) - all of them mechanically minded, but all I did when growing up was play games with my mates, which means I'm only just above the 'a little knowledge is dangerous' level!

[MX7]

jamesdavies120 said:

Trouble i have is, i'm 17, 1.6 would kill on insurance.
and the 1.3 fits into my car without modification to bulkhead and tunnel.

And i don't plan on racing it anytime soon, more for small street runs.

In that case, don't tune it. It would cost a small fortune to do, and won't have any resale value. Save the money until you can afford the insurance, and a more modern engine. A Mazda B engine might fit nicely, and comes with a nice box.

[jamesdavies120]

Gingerbread Man said:

They'll insure you on a 1.3 crossflow, but you won't get a 1.6, as the insurance would be through the roof. How does the insurance rate a tuned/ modified 1.3 crossflow in comparison?

The insurance is not much more, specially as my dad is on the policy. but the 1.6 is as you said through the roof. so can't do it.

[Richardsix]

I run a 1600 crossflow and would love the bhp you talk of! you are talking big money for a short life span.

[jamesdavies120]

MX7 said:

In that case, don't tune it. It would cost a small fortune to do, and won't have any resale value. Save the money until you can afford the insurance, and a more modern engine. A Mazda B engine might fit nicely, and comes with a nice box.

I'm not looking for resale value at all. And money for tuning the engine is not a problem as i plan on doing it over a few months, and have friends/work mates in engineering shops that can help alot.
Plus i'm trying to keep a ford engine in the car.

[jamesdavies120]

ChevronB19 said:

Then in that case, I would strongly recommend that you make only minor mods, polish ports etc, change cam for a fast road one, get the twin 40's (not cheap, but I assume you know that!) for a lovely sound. Improve the brakes first - Austin Princess ones are great and used by loads of racers (which also makes them expensive unfortunately). Let the insurance know, get your dad/mum on it as second drivers, and buy Practical Classics and go through the specialist insurers. Don't know what car you have, but chances are compared to modern ones it'll be light, so circa 90-100BHP will be plenty quick, and open a few peoples eyes!

As an aside, I wish I'd done what you are doing now - I grew up in a family that raced and rallied anything (even my mum, who rolled a Cooper S on a rally whilst she was 6 months pregnant with me) - all of them mechanically minded, but all I did when growing up was play games with my mates, which means I'm only just above the 'a little knowledge is dangerous' level!

breaks are defo going in first
along with a all new front end suspension,

Once again thanks for the help, most appreciated.

[jamesdavies120]

MX7 said:

I take it this is for your Pop? Although I have a 1.6 X-flow with those sorts of figures, there are far better ways of getting 130bhp these days.

what would you suggest? baring in mind max engine size is a 1.3 and world prefer the engine to be a Ford.

[MX7]

jamesdavies120 said:

MX7 said:

I take it this is for your Pop? Although I have a 1.6 X-flow with those sorts of figures, there are far better ways of getting 130bhp these days.

what would you suggest? baring in mind max engine size is a 1.3 and world prefer the engine to be a Ford.

Do the 1.3 then. I do think it'll prove quite expensive £/bhp wise, but if you're ok with that, go for it.

[deveng]

This absolutely smacks of either not declaring mods or insurance fronting.

From experience, a much faster but standard car is cheaper to insure than any modified car when you are 17.

[James Dean]

How about finding a crossflow that've already been tuned, would sure work out chearper? Sounds like an awesome first car, though.