todays dyno shoot out????
Discussion
. It certainly did! I am sure Tiny & Guillotine will want to make their onm comments, but I am sure they won't mind me giving an overview of the day.
Guillotine's car as it arrived didn't appear to be running as sweet as it might and got a couple of baseline runs on the dyno, before stripping out his (Rover 220 Turbo) injectors and running them through the tester. I've seen barmaids pull pints slower than his injectors filled the tubes!
Meanwhile I put mine on to get a baseline with the engine rebuild from TVR Power and their Taraka cam. It was running very well, according to Mark.
With that done, I stripped the induction and ran my (standard) injectors through the tester. These were then cleaned and retested. Having done 82,000 miles, they were in pretty good shape, but there was a 9% difference between them with one much lower than the rest.
Brian swapped one from stock and got them to within 3%, and they were refitted with ACT's triple 50mm carbon fibre throttle body plenum and airbox. Had some issues with the silcone AFM to air filter pipe, so I had to replace the standard one, but with a Bosch Air Flow Meter. Dave welded a crack that had recently appeared on the seam of the Y piece, which would have thrown the Lambda sensor had it not been sorted.
Meanwhile Tiny had a run, all work having been completed by Peninsula in advance of the day. He had some issues with air leaks in the plenum which required the some modifications, resulting in a strong performance.
Guillotine when back on with a new set of Maserati injectors and Mark fine tuned his engine. He was struggling for grip since his car is so low it was bottoming out on the chassis and lifting the wheels off the rollers.
Put mine back on and it was rough at the bottom end, but pulling much better at the top. Mark changed the fuel map and advanced the ignition to 29 degrees. In his opinion, the Taraka cam is pretty lumpy, loved advance but was running out of fuel at the top end. There was still an air leak from the offside header gasket which upset the Lambda sensor, but Mark set everything up from the readings from the left one.
All three engines are putting out remarkably similar horsepower and are honourary members of Mark's Monster Club.
I won't speak for the others, but with Maserati Webber injectors, he is confident of finding another 10 - 20 horsepower from my engine.
We all stayed to the end, and didn't leave until gone 11.30pm, and I must say the car is running better than it ever has. An extremely long day, but I think everyone was very happy with the results, including Mark.
Guillotine's car as it arrived didn't appear to be running as sweet as it might and got a couple of baseline runs on the dyno, before stripping out his (Rover 220 Turbo) injectors and running them through the tester. I've seen barmaids pull pints slower than his injectors filled the tubes!
Meanwhile I put mine on to get a baseline with the engine rebuild from TVR Power and their Taraka cam. It was running very well, according to Mark.
With that done, I stripped the induction and ran my (standard) injectors through the tester. These were then cleaned and retested. Having done 82,000 miles, they were in pretty good shape, but there was a 9% difference between them with one much lower than the rest.
Brian swapped one from stock and got them to within 3%, and they were refitted with ACT's triple 50mm carbon fibre throttle body plenum and airbox. Had some issues with the silcone AFM to air filter pipe, so I had to replace the standard one, but with a Bosch Air Flow Meter. Dave welded a crack that had recently appeared on the seam of the Y piece, which would have thrown the Lambda sensor had it not been sorted.
Meanwhile Tiny had a run, all work having been completed by Peninsula in advance of the day. He had some issues with air leaks in the plenum which required the some modifications, resulting in a strong performance.
Guillotine when back on with a new set of Maserati injectors and Mark fine tuned his engine. He was struggling for grip since his car is so low it was bottoming out on the chassis and lifting the wheels off the rollers.
Put mine back on and it was rough at the bottom end, but pulling much better at the top. Mark changed the fuel map and advanced the ignition to 29 degrees. In his opinion, the Taraka cam is pretty lumpy, loved advance but was running out of fuel at the top end. There was still an air leak from the offside header gasket which upset the Lambda sensor, but Mark set everything up from the readings from the left one.
All three engines are putting out remarkably similar horsepower and are honourary members of Mark's Monster Club.
I won't speak for the others, but with Maserati Webber injectors, he is confident of finding another 10 - 20 horsepower from my engine.
We all stayed to the end, and didn't leave until gone 11.30pm, and I must say the car is running better than it ever has. An extremely long day, but I think everyone was very happy with the results, including Mark.
Well, it was all a bit late last night (11.15)...and as i'm up with the kids this morning i guess i'm the first up. Thanks to Mark, brian tiny and starmist. all nice guys ofcourse. the dunkirk spirit was coming out at half past four when NONE of the cars was fully fettled!
i'll leave each to post their own story, some longer than others...and here's mine.
mine had been posting 250 max there (with the 404cam) which equates to 280bhp. yesterday i put in the right injectors (webber) so it could then be fueled correctly. it would seem that if you have a "500" and do the plenum work (tims or otherwise) you HAVE to step up the injectors. the standard ones are not very good and max out trying to keep up with all that new air!
next there was the checks on the 404/404H. direct comparisons on my engine showed little loss of power over the mechanical cam. power curves were identical and max figures were projecting VERY similar peak results...but as mine kept wheel spinning on the r/road we left it at that.
so with the new injectors in and the new 404h how did mine do? To get a figure we had brian (Mech repairs)driving, Mark (adams)in the pasender seat, starmist and a paser by in the boot. but we were STILL spinning! so me and Tiny climbed onto the rear shelf. it JUST held!
as everyone was in the car...no photo to post..shame!
the figures...well mine posted 258bhp which mark reckons is about 303bhp, i'll leave the others to post for comparisons, but i don't think there's anything left in mine!
by the way... on my road test, i was wheel spinning in third at 70mph
(it was wet and my tyres had been buffed by the rollers though)
cheers
Ha! edited to say beaten to it by starmist! morning mate!
>> Edited by Guillotine on Saturday 1st May 09:45
i'll leave each to post their own story, some longer than others...and here's mine.
mine had been posting 250 max there (with the 404cam) which equates to 280bhp. yesterday i put in the right injectors (webber) so it could then be fueled correctly. it would seem that if you have a "500" and do the plenum work (tims or otherwise) you HAVE to step up the injectors. the standard ones are not very good and max out trying to keep up with all that new air!
next there was the checks on the 404/404H. direct comparisons on my engine showed little loss of power over the mechanical cam. power curves were identical and max figures were projecting VERY similar peak results...but as mine kept wheel spinning on the r/road we left it at that.
so with the new injectors in and the new 404h how did mine do? To get a figure we had brian (Mech repairs)driving, Mark (adams)in the pasender seat, starmist and a paser by in the boot. but we were STILL spinning! so me and Tiny climbed onto the rear shelf. it JUST held!
as everyone was in the car...no photo to post..shame!
the figures...well mine posted 258bhp which mark reckons is about 303bhp, i'll leave the others to post for comparisons, but i don't think there's anything left in mine!
by the way... on my road test, i was wheel spinning in third at 70mph
(it was wet and my tyres had been buffed by the rollers though)
cheers
Ha! edited to say beaten to it by starmist! morning mate!
>> Edited by Guillotine on Saturday 1st May 09:45
It's mostly been said by Starmist and Guillotine but I'd certainly like to add my thanks to eveyone for a great day(and a lot of the night!)out.
Particular thanks to Mark and Brian for maintaining both their committment to give each car it's optimum fettling and for sharing their expertise.
For the record my numbers were the same as Starmist's and my delivery curves identical to Guillotine's.
It seems clear,from our experience at least,that if you fit these substantial air mods on a 500 - you will most likely also have to address the limitations of the stock injectors. Budget accordingly!!
>> Edited by tiny on Saturday 1st May 12:12
Particular thanks to Mark and Brian for maintaining both their committment to give each car it's optimum fettling and for sharing their expertise.
For the record my numbers were the same as Starmist's and my delivery curves identical to Guillotine's.
It seems clear,from our experience at least,that if you fit these substantial air mods on a 500 - you will most likely also have to address the limitations of the stock injectors. Budget accordingly!!
>> Edited by tiny on Saturday 1st May 12:12
over here they are about £st70ea.
took me about two hours to put mine in.
its not hard.
Lucas injectors aren't brilliant.
webber 031's are!
you can get an idea of their effectiveness by checking the sparking plugs. look for grey ones...not enough fuel / Black ones may indicate a bad spray patern. this is NOT conclusive!
a matched set of CLEAN lucas (standard) ones are ok on a standard car, but more air means more fuel, so plenum work will need bigger ones to get the most out of it.
edited to say the only REAL way to test is in a fueling rig NOT a rolling road!
>> Edited by Guillotine on Saturday 1st May 12:28
took me about two hours to put mine in.
its not hard.
Lucas injectors aren't brilliant.
webber 031's are!
you can get an idea of their effectiveness by checking the sparking plugs. look for grey ones...not enough fuel / Black ones may indicate a bad spray patern. this is NOT conclusive!
a matched set of CLEAN lucas (standard) ones are ok on a standard car, but more air means more fuel, so plenum work will need bigger ones to get the most out of it.
edited to say the only REAL way to test is in a fueling rig NOT a rolling road!
>> Edited by Guillotine on Saturday 1st May 12:28
I assume then you have all joined Marks 300+bhp club then 
.
Are these all wheel figures or corrected figures that Mech repairs just read low on
.
I also assume these are all running dizzy ignition, did you discuss with Mark a mapped one on top as the more fettled the lump the more it will improve 
.
Harry
. Are these all wheel figures or corrected figures that Mech repairs just read low on
. I also assume these are all running dizzy ignition, did you discuss with Mark a mapped one on top
as the more fettled the lump the more it will improve . Harry
These figures are Mark's estimate of what would have been achieved on any other dyno. Presumably calculated back to crank bhp. Yes, mapped ignition was talked about. It's all a question of cost and gains.
As in most things, it is important to start with a healthy stock engine. Looking at this first can give usual gains for less £/bhp than throwing money at performance parts. For instance, I gained 25bhp (according to Mech Repairs) by having the engine rebuilt and the Taraka cam, for around £2000. The triple plenum, Mark Adams chip and rolling road session, only liberated another 21bhp for around £2500, (albeit with a MUCH smoother engine) and I would not have achieved that much if I hadn't had the engine sorted first.
Steve Heath's ball part figure of around £100/bhp has proved to be pretty accurate. As is the cost of Maserati injections and a further rr session, estimated at £1000 for 10 - 20 bhp more.
Where do you stop? Is it when the missus finds out how much you've spent?
BTW, yes we are, according to Mark all in the 300hp club. It was very warming looking at all 3 Griffs parked up last night, with over 900hp between them!
As in most things, it is important to start with a healthy stock engine. Looking at this first can give usual gains for less £/bhp than throwing money at performance parts. For instance, I gained 25bhp (according to Mech Repairs) by having the engine rebuilt and the Taraka cam, for around £2000. The triple plenum, Mark Adams chip and rolling road session, only liberated another 21bhp for around £2500, (albeit with a MUCH smoother engine) and I would not have achieved that much if I hadn't had the engine sorted first.
Steve Heath's ball part figure of around £100/bhp has proved to be pretty accurate. As is the cost of Maserati injections and a further rr session, estimated at £1000 for 10 - 20 bhp more.
Where do you stop? Is it when the missus finds out how much you've spent?
BTW, yes we are, according to Mark all in the 300hp club. It was very warming looking at all 3 Griffs parked up last night, with over 900hp between them!
Don't know if any of you have seen this video! I posted it on another thread last week, but it's pretty impressive!
www.fasttrackperformance.com/page5/chow%20movie%20files/christtgn.wmv
www.fasttrackperformance.com/page5/chow%20movie%20files/christtgn.wmv
Ballistic Banana said:
Fortunatly I have a 96 Griff which was one of the 340bhp( TVR figures ) and do believe my Banana is up on a bit of power as has seen of a few 5.0ltr Chimps
but real terms I would like to be in that club as its enough for me
at the moment
BB
Bit confused..
so how much is your tiv making 340? or more?TimW said:
Ballistic Banana said:
Fortunatly I have a 96 Griff which was one of the 340bhp( TVR figures
BB
Bit confused..
God no! these are TVR figures( do a search on this as theres loads of stuff on it)
The first Griffith 500 was spec'ed to 325bhp(TVR Figures) then up to 340bhp( TVR Figs) and then detuned in 97 to 320bhp(tvr figs).
But if you put yours standard on a Dyno you be very lucky to get 300bhp, I think around 260-270 is the norm.
PLEASE correct me if i am wrong guys.
BB
>> Edited by Ballistic Banana on Saturday 1st May 20:35
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