996 Turbo Uprated Sachs Clutches
Discussion
I've fitted the 740nm version and kept the dual mass flywheel, mine has a very similar feel to the stock clutch, but I believe others have experienced various results with regard to feel, not sure why this should be though when used in same application. Currently holding strong with plenty of hp/torque thrown at it.
Edited by EvoSlayer on Thursday 17th February 17:49
bob'5 said:
What uprated clutches are you guys using and how do you find them? Did you go with sprung centres with single mass flywheels or stay with a dual mass flywheel with a solid centre?
Really depends on what torque you are planning to put through the clutch TBH, if you can get away with the 740nm clutch, great, the feeling is very much the same.If you need to use the 890nm clutch, then it becomes tricky (I'm sure Mr.Freefall will be along in a minute!) to feel for the biting point, and it does strain the power assistance somewhat, causing the accumulator to fail in short order. The biting point is right at the top of the pedal travel too.
A good upgrade would be to convert the clutch system to GT2 specs, as it doesn't have a power clutch, the feel is much better.
forget the 1050nm clutch if you want to drive the car on the road again, without dumping the clutch when you want to set off.
Vixpy1 said:
I'm on K24 hybrids so torque should be less
Cool, more details please... which compressor wheel are you using and what pressure do you run them to? Oh yeah, and what results are you getting?Apologies for all the questions but I was quite happy and thought I'd finished with this mucking about thing but never underestimate the power of the dark side...
EvoSlayer said:
Cool, more details please... which compressor wheel are you using and what pressure do you run them to? Oh yeah, and what results are you getting?
Apologies for all the questions but I was quite happy and thought I'd finished with this mucking about thing but never underestimate the power of the dark side...
The car is presently loaded onto my truck to take to fearnsport tommorow, the turbos are on the passenger seat. Apologies for all the questions but I was quite happy and thought I'd finished with this mucking about thing but never underestimate the power of the dark side...
Vixpy1 said:
I'm on K24 hybrids so torque should be less
How can torque be less when you are using a K24 turbine compared to a K16 ? Your torque will be more. Re clutches, as Mike says, I've had X50, GT2 (They are different), 890nm, and presently 740nm all in my car. Looking for a clutch that can replicate stock feel is not easy at all... the 890nm was horrible frankly - bizarrely, when I asked people about it before I got it, all I got was positive feedback - whats that about ???
Its not just the engagement or bite point but also the judder it generated whilst changing gear. Not sure its well matched to the dmf. The 740 is a bit better but not much... maybe I need to give it more time to bed in.
Need to have a feel of your clutch Andy so we can compare notes !!
ZeroH said:
Re clutches, as Mike says, I've had X50, GT2 (They are different), 890nm, and presently 740nm all in my car. Looking for a clutch that can replicate stock feel is not easy at all... the 890nm was horrible frankly - bizarrely, when I asked people about it before I got it, all I got was positive feedback - whats that about ???
Its not just the engagement or bite point but also the judder it generated whilst changing gear. Not sure its well matched to the dmf. The 740 is a bit better but not much... maybe I need to give it more time to bed in.
We discussed this before, I have had 890NM on two cars, on the hydraulic 993tt with LWFW and on 997GT2 with DMFW and on both the clutch is perfect and on the 993 maybe not as "giving" as stock certainly easy enough for a daily driver once used to it.Its not just the engagement or bite point but also the judder it generated whilst changing gear. Not sure its well matched to the dmf. The 740 is a bit better but not much... maybe I need to give it more time to bed in.
On the 997GT2 the stock clutch will slip even with an untuned car so it is quite whimpy yet the 890NM one felt virtually the same, not heavier (even without hyadraulics) same take up point and as for "juddering" WTF is that all about ?
If your 740NM one has similar shortcomings it sounds like something else is wrong with the set up, maybe mechanically minded on here could give some pointers, you need to get that sorted as a useable clutch can make or break a car's useability (as you know).
Lastly, as we sure all clutches sold as "890NM" versions are exact same part numbers from same source ?
ZF official catalogue below, the 890NM is listed as 883082 with 999764
http://www.zf.com/media/media/document/corporate_2...
http://www.zf.com/media/media/document/corporate_2...
TB993tt said:
We discussed this before, I have had 890NM on two cars, on the hydraulic 993tt with LWFW and on 997GT2 with DMFW and on both the clutch is perfect and on the 993 maybe not as "giving" as stock certainly easy enough for a daily driver once used to it.
On the 997GT2 the stock clutch will slip even with an untuned car so it is quite whimpy yet the 890NM one felt virtually the same, not heavier (even without hyadraulics) same take up point and as for "juddering" WTF is that all about ?
If your 740NM one has similar shortcomings it sounds like something else is wrong with the set up, maybe mechanically minded on here could give some pointers, you need to get that sorted as a useable clutch can make or break a car's useability (as you know).
Lastly, as we sure all clutches sold as "890NM" versions are exact same part numbers from same source ?
+1. On the 997GT2 the stock clutch will slip even with an untuned car so it is quite whimpy yet the 890NM one felt virtually the same, not heavier (even without hyadraulics) same take up point and as for "juddering" WTF is that all about ?
If your 740NM one has similar shortcomings it sounds like something else is wrong with the set up, maybe mechanically minded on here could give some pointers, you need to get that sorted as a useable clutch can make or break a car's useability (as you know).
Lastly, as we sure all clutches sold as "890NM" versions are exact same part numbers from same source ?
Miras, following you that day through Lutterworth was very funny. Watch the people turn around when you were try to put away from junctions was funny
You are welcome to test an 890nm on one of our cars so you can see for yourself. We also are doing the GT2 slave conversion. Ken
Toby, Ken, I think I will definitely have to drive another car with the 890nm to get some reflection on this.
Toby - the 890nm clutch and pressure plate were sooooo much heavier than the stock GT2 unit that came out of my car - i didn't weigh them but there was a material difference... i just don't think it mated to the dmf well at all in my car.
I've been pondering the judder also... but my flywheel (checked twice) is fine, no accumlator or slave issues... nothing obvious comes to mind. I know Andy had some judder which a change of MAF cured, but for the life of me can't think why it would be linked.
The fact that Toby is saying his 890nm is stock like has me wondering tho. Will test when we get together next.
Toby - the 890nm clutch and pressure plate were sooooo much heavier than the stock GT2 unit that came out of my car - i didn't weigh them but there was a material difference... i just don't think it mated to the dmf well at all in my car.
I've been pondering the judder also... but my flywheel (checked twice) is fine, no accumlator or slave issues... nothing obvious comes to mind. I know Andy had some judder which a change of MAF cured, but for the life of me can't think why it would be linked.
The fact that Toby is saying his 890nm is stock like has me wondering tho. Will test when we get together next.
ZeroH said:
How can torque be less when you are using a K24 turbine compared to a K16 ? Your torque will be more.
Re clutches, as Mike says, I've had X50, GT2 (They are different), 890nm, and presently 740nm all in my car. Looking for a clutch that can replicate stock feel is not easy at all... the 890nm was horrible frankly - bizarrely, when I asked people about it before I got it, all I got was positive feedback - whats that about ???
Its not just the engagement or bite point but also the judder it generated whilst changing gear. Not sure its well matched to the dmf. The 740 is a bit better but not much... maybe I need to give it more time to bed in.
Need to have a feel of your clutch Andy so we can compare notes !!
K24 hybrids which i expect to be laggier, more lag = less torque, unless you turn the boost up..Re clutches, as Mike says, I've had X50, GT2 (They are different), 890nm, and presently 740nm all in my car. Looking for a clutch that can replicate stock feel is not easy at all... the 890nm was horrible frankly - bizarrely, when I asked people about it before I got it, all I got was positive feedback - whats that about ???
Its not just the engagement or bite point but also the judder it generated whilst changing gear. Not sure its well matched to the dmf. The 740 is a bit better but not much... maybe I need to give it more time to bed in.
Need to have a feel of your clutch Andy so we can compare notes !!
gtphile said:
Really depends on what torque you are planning to put through the clutch TBH, if you can get away with the 740nm clutch, great, the feeling is very much the same.
If you need to use the 890nm clutch, then it becomes tricky (I'm sure Mr.Freefall will be along in a minute!) to feel for the biting point, and it does strain the power assistance somewhat, causing the accumulator to fail in short order. The biting point is right at the top of the pedal travel too.
A good upgrade would be to convert the clutch system to GT2 specs, as it doesn't have a power clutch, the feel is much better.
forget the 1050nm clutch if you want to drive the car on the road again, without dumping the clutch when you want to set off.
Sach 890Nm will kill the accumulator components of the std 996t clutch. I have had one go, and the second one fitted 500 miles ago is not too happy.If you need to use the 890nm clutch, then it becomes tricky (I'm sure Mr.Freefall will be along in a minute!) to feel for the biting point, and it does strain the power assistance somewhat, causing the accumulator to fail in short order. The biting point is right at the top of the pedal travel too.
A good upgrade would be to convert the clutch system to GT2 specs, as it doesn't have a power clutch, the feel is much better.
forget the 1050nm clutch if you want to drive the car on the road again, without dumping the clutch when you want to set off.
The bite point is at the very top, and it’s an On-off feel, no room to feed the clutch in. Personally I don’t like the feel that much, but I can live with it.
We're going to test a GT2 slave conversion on my car, I have bought all the bits, a custom made bracket from the USA to sit on the g/Box, and just having a hydraulic hose made to the correct length. I’m also going to fit the 964RS LWFW
If you have a K16 flash, K16/16g, K16/K24, K24 turbo with flash, I would go for the 740NM like Miras and EvoSlayer. If you are have a K24 and are going to 1.2bar boost, or K24/18g then the 890 would be better, but the GT2 slave conversion looks the way to go.
Once its done I will do a write up for everyone, but most of the cars in the US do this conversion, and they love it and it seems the way to go.
If anyone would like to test to see what it is like once done, just shout...
Gary
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