STI PPP DISAPPOINTMENT
Discussion
This may have been raised before so apologies...
People seem to put a lot of emphasis onto the PPP upgrade to STI and WRX.
Most recently raised in STI V's M5 post.
I have an STI PPP (305????????????) 2005, however when it was put on the rolling rd at Scooby World it was only putting our 265BHP and similiar torque. I was told that this was quite common.
To get the car to a similiar level of output as is stated on PPP cert I spent quite a lot of money on the Power station stage 1 upgrade (well worth it).
Has anyone else had a similiar experience, does this apply across the board with the UK300, RB320, GB270 etc?
I suppose the point to this really is, if people are looking to buy one of these cars, are they better off saving the difference being charged for the upgrade kit and spending it on their own mods (thinking used buys)
PS the car only had 5000 miles on it when it was on the rolling rd.
People seem to put a lot of emphasis onto the PPP upgrade to STI and WRX.
Most recently raised in STI V's M5 post.
I have an STI PPP (305????????????) 2005, however when it was put on the rolling rd at Scooby World it was only putting our 265BHP and similiar torque. I was told that this was quite common.
To get the car to a similiar level of output as is stated on PPP cert I spent quite a lot of money on the Power station stage 1 upgrade (well worth it).
Has anyone else had a similiar experience, does this apply across the board with the UK300, RB320, GB270 etc?
I suppose the point to this really is, if people are looking to buy one of these cars, are they better off saving the difference being charged for the upgrade kit and spending it on their own mods (thinking used buys)
PS the car only had 5000 miles on it when it was on the rolling rd.
Are you sure the car had the PPP installed and not just a back box?
Standard an STi kicks out about 265bhp
I had a classic shape Impreza turbo with PPP, and the extra horses were definitely there.
Is PPP is value for money over some of the other custom tuner kits?, that's a different argument
Standard an STi kicks out about 265bhp
I had a classic shape Impreza turbo with PPP, and the extra horses were definitely there.
Is PPP is value for money over some of the other custom tuner kits?, that's a different argument
It is 100% an STI PPP. I have all the documents with the car.
Scooby World and Powerstation stated it was common. The car is definately not knackered. I am suggesting that the PPP is not all its cracked up to be and certainly not with the price tag it carries over the standard car
Good name calling GWAGON111, does your mum know your using the computer?
Scooby World and Powerstation stated it was common. The car is definately not knackered. I am suggesting that the PPP is not all its cracked up to be and certainly not with the price tag it carries over the standard car
Good name calling GWAGON111, does your mum know your using the computer?
Have you read what I have written???
The car had done 3000 miles prior to the rolling road, the car has done less than 15000 miles to date. The car has been serviced 6 times and the oil changed every 3000 miles. IT IS NOT SHAGGED.
The car has the stage 1 upgrade from Powerstation and is now running 330BHP with the same torque.
BOTH Powerstation and Scooby Works stated that they rarely see cars achieve the claimed 305BHP.
I asked if anyone had a similiar issue with a PPP car, having had it put on a rolling rd, and therefore called into the question the value of the upgrade. I did not ask if you had an assumption about what the PPP will achieve.
The car had done 3000 miles prior to the rolling road, the car has done less than 15000 miles to date. The car has been serviced 6 times and the oil changed every 3000 miles. IT IS NOT SHAGGED.
The car has the stage 1 upgrade from Powerstation and is now running 330BHP with the same torque.
BOTH Powerstation and Scooby Works stated that they rarely see cars achieve the claimed 305BHP.
I asked if anyone had a similiar issue with a PPP car, having had it put on a rolling rd, and therefore called into the question the value of the upgrade. I did not ask if you had an assumption about what the PPP will achieve.
As i mentioned in my first reply to you the value of the PPP upgrade over alternative upgrades is debatable.
However what the PPP kit provides in my experience isn't.
Take your car to another rolling road, i can pretty much guarantee you wont get the same power figures as you've got at the moment.
Rolling roads provide a useful reference point for tuners, to see before and after improvements. But are not the most accurate for providing an actual power figures
However what the PPP kit provides in my experience isn't.
Take your car to another rolling road, i can pretty much guarantee you wont get the same power figures as you've got at the moment.
Rolling roads provide a useful reference point for tuners, to see before and after improvements. But are not the most accurate for providing an actual power figures
te, rarely doing what they claimed, the later PPP packages, especially on the late blob eyes are excellent and almost all I have RR'd have done 300 + Bhp, unless they are running on normal unleaded, in which case they do around 270bhp.JonBoy1 said:
Have you read what I have written???
The car had done 3000 miles prior to the rolling road, the car has done less than 15000 miles to date. The car has been serviced 6 times and the oil changed every 3000 miles. IT IS NOT SHAGGED.
The car has the stage 1 upgrade from Powerstation and is now running 330BHP with the same torque.
BOTH Powerstation and Scooby Works stated that they rarely see cars achieve the claimed 305BHP.
I asked if anyone had a similiar issue with a PPP car, having had it put on a rolling rd, and therefore called into the question the value of the upgrade. I did not ask if you had an assumption about what the PPP will achieve.
I have heard also that the PPP performance packs can vary in power output, so yours may be one that got a lower power gain.The car had done 3000 miles prior to the rolling road, the car has done less than 15000 miles to date. The car has been serviced 6 times and the oil changed every 3000 miles. IT IS NOT SHAGGED.
The car has the stage 1 upgrade from Powerstation and is now running 330BHP with the same torque.
BOTH Powerstation and Scooby Works stated that they rarely see cars achieve the claimed 305BHP.
I asked if anyone had a similiar issue with a PPP car, having had it put on a rolling rd, and therefore called into the question the value of the upgrade. I did not ask if you had an assumption about what the PPP will achieve.
I really dont understand why you think I am bashing PRODRIVE. I was speaking from my experience and asking if anyone else had had a similiar experience. If not, I was unlucky, and I am more than happy to live with that.
I am telling you what happened to me and repeating what reputable specialists have said to me. If I have been fed some duff info I am more than happy to be educated.
Fly wheel BHP.
I am telling you what happened to me and repeating what reputable specialists have said to me. If I have been fed some duff info I am more than happy to be educated.
Fly wheel BHP.
260-265bhp is pretty normal for a bog std STi as has been said already.
265bhp from a PPP is not the norm and i would question the validity of the PPP, or whether the car was running 100% on all sensors, or whether or not the RR operator was giving you accurate figures.
I see no value in PPP for what it costs in the first place, unless you happen to get it FOC it as part of a deal however, in my experience genuine PPP's make c.295-305bhp so yours is definitely not the norm.
Rolling road operators can do pretty much anything they like with RR output figures making them go one way or the other using various correction factors. If a RR operator gives you a figure of 265bhp from your PPP you're going to be pretty miffed at that and be very keen to have a remap.
That's good for the tuner that does your car, money in the till. I presume if Powerstation did it you were charged good money for an EcuTek tune, and they tell you it's now making 330bhp.
Although that's exactly what you want to hear, and i've no doubt the car feels like it drives differently, baring in mind what they told you about 265bhp being common in PPP's when actually it isn't, i'd be keen to have it RR's somewhere else just to compare figures as has already been previously posted here.
Talk to Vixpy1 (Charlie at Surrey Rolling Road) about some power runs on his RR, i've no doubt he'll give you a good deal as a PH member and provide you with an honest opinion and minimally fudged RR figures.
P.S. The only everyday and honest power figures that really matter a damn are the ones that represent how much bhp you have at the roadwheels (WHP).
RR Engine BHP derived from WHP + fudge factor only means something if you're chasing numbers that you can use for pub bragging rights because even a RR is still proving a guesstimate. If you really want to know how much genuine engine bhp you're making you need to take the engine out and put it on an engine dyno to get accurate figures. That's very expensive to do and not practical for 99% of owners so RR is the only other way.
Next time you have your car RR'd ask for uncorrected WHP figures, not corrected engine BHP. It doesn't matter if you think your car makes 1000BHP, if it's only putting down 500WHP then engine BHP becomes completely irrelevant.
265bhp from a PPP is not the norm and i would question the validity of the PPP, or whether the car was running 100% on all sensors, or whether or not the RR operator was giving you accurate figures.
I see no value in PPP for what it costs in the first place, unless you happen to get it FOC it as part of a deal however, in my experience genuine PPP's make c.295-305bhp so yours is definitely not the norm.
Rolling road operators can do pretty much anything they like with RR output figures making them go one way or the other using various correction factors. If a RR operator gives you a figure of 265bhp from your PPP you're going to be pretty miffed at that and be very keen to have a remap.
That's good for the tuner that does your car, money in the till. I presume if Powerstation did it you were charged good money for an EcuTek tune, and they tell you it's now making 330bhp.
Although that's exactly what you want to hear, and i've no doubt the car feels like it drives differently, baring in mind what they told you about 265bhp being common in PPP's when actually it isn't, i'd be keen to have it RR's somewhere else just to compare figures as has already been previously posted here.
Talk to Vixpy1 (Charlie at Surrey Rolling Road) about some power runs on his RR, i've no doubt he'll give you a good deal as a PH member and provide you with an honest opinion and minimally fudged RR figures.
P.S. The only everyday and honest power figures that really matter a damn are the ones that represent how much bhp you have at the roadwheels (WHP).
RR Engine BHP derived from WHP + fudge factor only means something if you're chasing numbers that you can use for pub bragging rights because even a RR is still proving a guesstimate. If you really want to know how much genuine engine bhp you're making you need to take the engine out and put it on an engine dyno to get accurate figures. That's very expensive to do and not practical for 99% of owners so RR is the only other way.
Next time you have your car RR'd ask for uncorrected WHP figures, not corrected engine BHP. It doesn't matter if you think your car makes 1000BHP, if it's only putting down 500WHP then engine BHP becomes completely irrelevant.
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Sunday 20th February 03:17
ScoobieWRX said:
260-265bhp is pretty normal for a bog std STi as has been said already.
265bhp from a PPP is not the norm and i would question the validity of the PPP, or whether the car was running 100% on all sensors, or whether or not the RR operator was giving you accurate figures.
I see no value in PPP for what it costs in the first place, unless you happen to get it FOC it as part of a deal however, in my experience genuine PPP's make c.295-305bhp so yours is definitely not the norm.
Rolling road operators can do pretty much anything they like with RR output figures making them go one way or the other using various correction factors. If a RR operator gives you a figure of 265bhp from your PPP you're going to be pretty miffed at that and be very keen to have a remap.
That's good for the tuner that does your car, money in the till. I presume if Powerstation did it you were charged good money for an EcuTek tune, and they tell you it's now making 330bhp.
Although that's exactly what you want to hear, and i've no doubt the car feels like it drives differently, baring in mind what they told you about 265bhp being common in PPP's when actually it isn't, i'd be keen to have it RR's somewhere else just to compare figures as has already been previously posted here.
Talk to Vixpy1 (Charlie at Surrey Rolling Road) about some power runs on his RR, i've no doubt he'll give you a good deal as a PH member and provide you with an honest opinion and minimally fudged RR figures.
P.S. The only everyday and honest power figures that really matter a damn are the ones that represent how much bhp you have at the roadwheels (WHP).
RR Engine BHP derived from WHP + fudge factor only means something if you're chasing numbers that you can use for pub bragging rights because even a RR is still proving a guesstimate. If you really want to know how much genuine engine bhp you're making you need to take the engine out and put it on an engine dyno to get accurate figures. That's very expensive to do and not practical for 99% of owners so RR is the only other way.
Next time you have your car RR'd ask for uncorrected WHP figures, not corrected engine BHP. It doesn't matter if you think your car makes 1000BHP, if it's only putting down 500WHP then engine BHP becomes completely irrelevant.
Thanks for the constructive comments/advice. I will definately look into getting the car on a different rolling rd. I think there may be a few of us from round here looking for a re-run265bhp from a PPP is not the norm and i would question the validity of the PPP, or whether the car was running 100% on all sensors, or whether or not the RR operator was giving you accurate figures.
I see no value in PPP for what it costs in the first place, unless you happen to get it FOC it as part of a deal however, in my experience genuine PPP's make c.295-305bhp so yours is definitely not the norm.
Rolling road operators can do pretty much anything they like with RR output figures making them go one way or the other using various correction factors. If a RR operator gives you a figure of 265bhp from your PPP you're going to be pretty miffed at that and be very keen to have a remap.
That's good for the tuner that does your car, money in the till. I presume if Powerstation did it you were charged good money for an EcuTek tune, and they tell you it's now making 330bhp.
Although that's exactly what you want to hear, and i've no doubt the car feels like it drives differently, baring in mind what they told you about 265bhp being common in PPP's when actually it isn't, i'd be keen to have it RR's somewhere else just to compare figures as has already been previously posted here.
Talk to Vixpy1 (Charlie at Surrey Rolling Road) about some power runs on his RR, i've no doubt he'll give you a good deal as a PH member and provide you with an honest opinion and minimally fudged RR figures.
P.S. The only everyday and honest power figures that really matter a damn are the ones that represent how much bhp you have at the roadwheels (WHP).
RR Engine BHP derived from WHP + fudge factor only means something if you're chasing numbers that you can use for pub bragging rights because even a RR is still proving a guesstimate. If you really want to know how much genuine engine bhp you're making you need to take the engine out and put it on an engine dyno to get accurate figures. That's very expensive to do and not practical for 99% of owners so RR is the only other way.
Next time you have your car RR'd ask for uncorrected WHP figures, not corrected engine BHP. It doesn't matter if you think your car makes 1000BHP, if it's only putting down 500WHP then engine BHP becomes completely irrelevant.
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Sunday 20th February 03:17
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