Z3M Coupe s50 vs S54
Discussion
Hi,
I'm getting hugely tempted by a Z3M Coupe, (for various reasons), and am wondering about the pros/cons of the S50 vs S54 engine.
I understand that the S54 is from the E46 M3 and will come with an electronic throttle and traction control and that the service intervals are longer. But does anyone have any experience of how the different engines drive?
I've looked at an S50 engined car and thought it sounded fantastic, really meaty etc, is the S54 as good in this sense? I quite like the idea of the S50 being a little more rough and old school and more of a challenge.
Also I am (shamefully) interested in re-sale values, clearly there is a widely held view of these cars being future classics; how much difference is the engine variant likely to make to this?
I'm weighing up a 1998 S50 with 52k on the clock for £13,750 and a 2002 S54 with 81k on the clock for £14,500. Both in great condition with full histories. What would you be more tempted by?
The car will initially be my daily driver, maybe for a year or so, so 81k may quickly become 100k and values tend to alter somewhat at that point.
Opinions and experiences welcome.
Thanks,
Adrian.
I'm getting hugely tempted by a Z3M Coupe, (for various reasons), and am wondering about the pros/cons of the S50 vs S54 engine.
I understand that the S54 is from the E46 M3 and will come with an electronic throttle and traction control and that the service intervals are longer. But does anyone have any experience of how the different engines drive?
I've looked at an S50 engined car and thought it sounded fantastic, really meaty etc, is the S54 as good in this sense? I quite like the idea of the S50 being a little more rough and old school and more of a challenge.
Also I am (shamefully) interested in re-sale values, clearly there is a widely held view of these cars being future classics; how much difference is the engine variant likely to make to this?
I'm weighing up a 1998 S50 with 52k on the clock for £13,750 and a 2002 S54 with 81k on the clock for £14,500. Both in great condition with full histories. What would you be more tempted by?
The car will initially be my daily driver, maybe for a year or so, so 81k may quickly become 100k and values tend to alter somewhat at that point.
Opinions and experiences welcome.
Thanks,
Adrian.
I bought a '98 M Roadster last year which is the S50. I was tempted to get the S54 version but its much higher cost and, in my view, has relatively small advantages over the S50. Sure there are more toys and some design differences but to me its fine.
In the real world the performance advantage is small and the fact it doesn't have traction control makes it a beast that has to be tamed! I love it.
In the real world the performance advantage is small and the fact it doesn't have traction control makes it a beast that has to be tamed! I love it.
aph202 said:
Hi,
I'm getting hugely tempted by a Z3M Coupe, (for various reasons), and am wondering about the pros/cons of the S50 vs S54 engine.
I understand that the S54 is from the E46 M3 and will come with an electronic throttle and traction control and that the service intervals are longer. But does anyone have any experience of how the different engines drive?
I've looked at an S50 engined car and thought it sounded fantastic, really meaty etc, is the S54 as good in this sense? I quite like the idea of the S50 being a little more rough and old school and more of a challenge.
Also I am (shamefully) interested in re-sale values, clearly there is a widely held view of these cars being future classics; how much difference is the engine variant likely to make to this?
I'm weighing up a 1998 S50 with 52k on the clock for £13,750 and a 2002 S54 with 81k on the clock for £14,500. Both in great condition with full histories. What would you be more tempted by?
The car will initially be my daily driver, maybe for a year or so, so 81k may quickly become 100k and values tend to alter somewhat at that point.
Opinions and experiences welcome.
Thanks,
Adrian.
I've driven both, at the place where you are looking at the s54 by the sounds of it. I wasnt quite sure if i was suffering from a placebo effect but the s54 felt a little more torquey low down for sure, the throttle response to me also felt better.I'm getting hugely tempted by a Z3M Coupe, (for various reasons), and am wondering about the pros/cons of the S50 vs S54 engine.
I understand that the S54 is from the E46 M3 and will come with an electronic throttle and traction control and that the service intervals are longer. But does anyone have any experience of how the different engines drive?
I've looked at an S50 engined car and thought it sounded fantastic, really meaty etc, is the S54 as good in this sense? I quite like the idea of the S50 being a little more rough and old school and more of a challenge.
Also I am (shamefully) interested in re-sale values, clearly there is a widely held view of these cars being future classics; how much difference is the engine variant likely to make to this?
I'm weighing up a 1998 S50 with 52k on the clock for £13,750 and a 2002 S54 with 81k on the clock for £14,500. Both in great condition with full histories. What would you be more tempted by?
The car will initially be my daily driver, maybe for a year or so, so 81k may quickly become 100k and values tend to alter somewhat at that point.
Opinions and experiences welcome.
Thanks,
Adrian.
That particular s54, if its the one im thinking of, i would go and see it in heavy rain, water leaked from the rear speaker outlets in the roof and the car was all steamed up shortly after i drove it indicating it was not water tight.
I would certainly be wary of the leaky cabin thats for sure
aph202 said:
Hi,
I'm getting hugely tempted by a Z3M Coupe, (for various reasons), and am wondering about the pros/cons of the S50 vs S54 engine.
I understand that the S54 is from the E46 M3 and will come with an electronic throttle and traction control and that the service intervals are longer. But does anyone have any experience of how the different engines drive?
I've looked at an S50 engined car and thought it sounded fantastic, really meaty etc, is the S54 as good in this sense? I quite like the idea of the S50 being a little more rough and old school and more of a challenge.
Also I am (shamefully) interested in re-sale values, clearly there is a widely held view of these cars being future classics; how much difference is the engine variant likely to make to this?
I'm weighing up a 1998 S50 with 52k on the clock for £13,750 and a 2002 S54 with 81k on the clock for £14,500. Both in great condition with full histories. What would you be more tempted by?
The car will initially be my daily driver, maybe for a year or so, so 81k may quickly become 100k and values tend to alter somewhat at that point.
Opinions and experiences welcome.
Thanks,
Adrian.
Horses for courses.I'm getting hugely tempted by a Z3M Coupe, (for various reasons), and am wondering about the pros/cons of the S50 vs S54 engine.
I understand that the S54 is from the E46 M3 and will come with an electronic throttle and traction control and that the service intervals are longer. But does anyone have any experience of how the different engines drive?
I've looked at an S50 engined car and thought it sounded fantastic, really meaty etc, is the S54 as good in this sense? I quite like the idea of the S50 being a little more rough and old school and more of a challenge.
Also I am (shamefully) interested in re-sale values, clearly there is a widely held view of these cars being future classics; how much difference is the engine variant likely to make to this?
I'm weighing up a 1998 S50 with 52k on the clock for £13,750 and a 2002 S54 with 81k on the clock for £14,500. Both in great condition with full histories. What would you be more tempted by?
The car will initially be my daily driver, maybe for a year or so, so 81k may quickly become 100k and values tend to alter somewhat at that point.
Opinions and experiences welcome.
Thanks,
Adrian.
Despite the power advantage of the later engine (which in reality is bugger-all), I actually prefer the S50 lump; certainly in something like the bread-van anyway.
Also worth bearing in mind that the S54 was neutered for the Z3M application and as such gives you none of the benefits with all the drawbacks i.e. Barely any more power, a redline capped at 7500 (as opposed the E46 M3's 7900) and the fly-by-wire throttle which is a let down in modern //M cars.
For me, I couldn't deal with owning a car in the knowledge that the engine had been artificially capped.
aph202 said:
Gibbon, if both the cars you were able to drive were silver then it definitely sounds like the same place.
Water ingress is not good news - especially given the seller is a "specialist", did they say anything about it?
Yes im sure its the same, and yes both cars were silver.Water ingress is not good news - especially given the seller is a "specialist", did they say anything about it?
I mentioned it, they pretty much shrugged it off and said it must have rolled in from the boot being open, it clearly didnt.
I went away to think about it, left my business card and contact details, they didnt ever call me back, that coupled with the water ingress meant i decided against the car. I would be wary as i say, the guy who took me out was nice enough, a mechanic i think as the sales guy was off, but i wasnt very impressed with the chase up and lack lustre approach at all.
I've got an s50 m coupe, I love it to bits.
I'd go for an s54 if I were to buy one again, however thats only because they are newer and I understand they make their quoted bhp more so than an s50.
Check out my profile for running costs of an s50... Quite expensive when they break.
Cheers
Andrew
I'd go for an s54 if I were to buy one again, however thats only because they are newer and I understand they make their quoted bhp more so than an s50.
Check out my profile for running costs of an s50... Quite expensive when they break.
Cheers
Andrew
Great Pretender said:
Horses for courses.
Despite the power advantage of the later engine (which in reality is bugger-all), I actually prefer the S50 lump; certainly in something like the bread-van anyway.
Also worth bearing in mind that the S54 was neutered for the Z3M application and as such gives you none of the benefits with all the drawbacks i.e. Barely any more power, a redline capped at 7500 (as opposed the E46 M3's 7900) and the fly-by-wire throttle which is a let down in modern //M cars.
For me, I couldn't deal with owning a car in the knowledge that the engine had been artificially capped.
I'd disagree a bit here, S54 is noticeably quicker than an S50 and I think sounds better. Power claim of 321bhp on the S50 is a bit dubious, most owners see c280-290bhp whereas S54 appears to give closer to its claimed power of 325bhp. I don't think the S54 was neutered or artificially capped, basically routing of exhausts restricts it a bit compared to e46 installation.Despite the power advantage of the later engine (which in reality is bugger-all), I actually prefer the S50 lump; certainly in something like the bread-van anyway.
Also worth bearing in mind that the S54 was neutered for the Z3M application and as such gives you none of the benefits with all the drawbacks i.e. Barely any more power, a redline capped at 7500 (as opposed the E46 M3's 7900) and the fly-by-wire throttle which is a let down in modern //M cars.
For me, I couldn't deal with owning a car in the knowledge that the engine had been artificially capped.
I did love my S50 but the S54 is a better car, whether its worth the price differential is your call....
DjSki said:
Great Pretender said:
Horses for courses.
Despite the power advantage of the later engine (which in reality is bugger-all), I actually prefer the S50 lump; certainly in something like the bread-van anyway.
Also worth bearing in mind that the S54 was neutered for the Z3M application and as such gives you none of the benefits with all the drawbacks i.e. Barely any more power, a redline capped at 7500 (as opposed the E46 M3's 7900) and the fly-by-wire throttle which is a let down in modern //M cars.
For me, I couldn't deal with owning a car in the knowledge that the engine had been artificially capped.
I'd disagree a bit here, S54 is noticeably quicker than an S50 and I think sounds better. Power claim of 321bhp on the S50 is a bit dubious, most owners see c280-290bhp whereas S54 appears to give closer to its claimed power of 325bhp. I don't think the S54 was neutered or artificially capped, basically routing of exhausts restricts it a bit compared to e46 installation.Despite the power advantage of the later engine (which in reality is bugger-all), I actually prefer the S50 lump; certainly in something like the bread-van anyway.
Also worth bearing in mind that the S54 was neutered for the Z3M application and as such gives you none of the benefits with all the drawbacks i.e. Barely any more power, a redline capped at 7500 (as opposed the E46 M3's 7900) and the fly-by-wire throttle which is a let down in modern //M cars.
For me, I couldn't deal with owning a car in the knowledge that the engine had been artificially capped.
I did love my S50 but the S54 is a better car, whether its worth the price differential is your call....
Great Pretender said:
DjSki said:
Great Pretender said:
Horses for courses.
Despite the power advantage of the later engine (which in reality is bugger-all), I actually prefer the S50 lump; certainly in something like the bread-van anyway.
Also worth bearing in mind that the S54 was neutered for the Z3M application and as such gives you none of the benefits with all the drawbacks i.e. Barely any more power, a redline capped at 7500 (as opposed the E46 M3's 7900) and the fly-by-wire throttle which is a let down in modern //M cars.
For me, I couldn't deal with owning a car in the knowledge that the engine had been artificially capped.
I'd disagree a bit here, S54 is noticeably quicker than an S50 and I think sounds better. Power claim of 321bhp on the S50 is a bit dubious, most owners see c280-290bhp whereas S54 appears to give closer to its claimed power of 325bhp. I don't think the S54 was neutered or artificially capped, basically routing of exhausts restricts it a bit compared to e46 installation.Despite the power advantage of the later engine (which in reality is bugger-all), I actually prefer the S50 lump; certainly in something like the bread-van anyway.
Also worth bearing in mind that the S54 was neutered for the Z3M application and as such gives you none of the benefits with all the drawbacks i.e. Barely any more power, a redline capped at 7500 (as opposed the E46 M3's 7900) and the fly-by-wire throttle which is a let down in modern //M cars.
For me, I couldn't deal with owning a car in the knowledge that the engine had been artificially capped.
I did love my S50 but the S54 is a better car, whether its worth the price differential is your call....
Edited by CRACKIE on Tuesday 22 February 00:19
One of the key things I loved about my S50 was the throttle cable. None of this throttle mapping crap that makes cars feel faster than they are. If you want 60% engine power, you put the pedal down 60%. IMO, a manual throttle cable makes for a far more driveable engine (unless the electronic throttle is mapped in a linear fashion - which I've never seen).
ghibbett said:
One of the key things I loved about my S50 was the throttle cable. None of this throttle mapping crap that makes cars feel faster than they are. If you want 60% engine power, you put the pedal down 60%. IMO, a manual throttle cable makes for a far more driveable engine (unless the electronic throttle is mapped in a linear fashion - which I've never seen).
mechanical all the way. Anyone know whether S50B32 Z3Ms suffer the same 'slack' throttle adjustment problems an E36 EVO suffers from ? An otherwise fit S50 might feel down on power relative to an S54 just because the S50's throttle cable idle position is out. 60 seconds to put right.
One of the BMW monthly mags hosted a Z3M rolling road day a few years back ~ the most powerful cars on the day were S50s not S54s IIRC.
Edited by CRACKIE on Tuesday 22 February 14:07
Yep, it does need adjustment and checking reasonably regularly.
I bought my S50 from my Father - I don't think he was overly impressed when I told him that initially I didnt find it much quicker than my 130i, however once I'd adjusted the throttle cable to allow more than 75% throttle, it was way faster. He'd been missing out!
I bought my S50 from my Father - I don't think he was overly impressed when I told him that initially I didnt find it much quicker than my 130i, however once I'd adjusted the throttle cable to allow more than 75% throttle, it was way faster. He'd been missing out!
I would also look at the options of both cars, these really count in resale, I believe I looked at the silver S50 one for 13.75K. A lovely car, but with no sunroof, no HK sound so no amp or CD changer, no side airbags and no cruise control. This put me off as I wanted these extras.
So I got a higher mileage S50 for 3K less, but with all the extras and I love it.
So I got a higher mileage S50 for 3K less, but with all the extras and I love it.
996dom said:
I would also look at the options of both cars, these really count in resale, I believe I looked at the silver S50 one for 13.75K. A lovely car, but with no sunroof, no HK sound so no amp or CD changer, no side airbags and no cruise control. This put me off as I wanted these extras.
So I got a higher mileage S50 for 3K less, but with all the extras and I love it.
Interesting, can't say as I'd thought too much about extras. The S50 I'm referring to definitely has the CD changer in the boot, but it's covered by a masking plate. They also said it had the upgraded sound system and pointed to the speakers in the roof as evidence, maybe they were mistaken and they all have speakers in the roof (again I know nothing about this).So I got a higher mileage S50 for 3K less, but with all the extras and I love it.
I'm wondering whether the one you've finally bought is the one I saw advertised about a month ago that set this whole train of thought off. Does it have the red inserts inside and were they also selling an Estoril blue one?
Btw, can someone explain to me the forum etiquette of not naming the establishments we've all seen these cars at?! I'm happily playing along, just wondered what the reason for it is?
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