car finance/business/tax
car finance/business/tax
Author
Discussion

Kudos

Original Poster:

2,674 posts

190 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
I was out having a pint with a friend yesterday and got talking about cars, finance etc.

He owns his own company and tells me he took out a personal contract hire on his car (BMW 530D), costing £450/month. He says the company pay him this (£450/month) as he uses it for business use, but interestingly he says there is no tax liability e.g. he gets the £450/month in his hand.

First I've heard of this. Is it true? He is well advised by an accountant, so got me interested.

He also said that as it's a PCH, there is no footprint on his credit record. Again, any thoughts on that?

Eric Mc

124,034 posts

281 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
Who holds the agreement for the car - himself or the limited copmpany?

Kudos

Original Poster:

2,674 posts

190 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Who holds the agreement for the car - himself or the limited copmpany?
I believe it's him

Eric Mc

124,034 posts

281 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
So, it sounds to me that he has a personal car and the company pays to him an amount of cash every month equivalent to the additional money he personally needs each month to make the monthly leasing payment.

This extra cash amount is really identical to what many employers would call a "Car Allowance".

HMRC would view this as additional salary and would expect the employer (i.e. his company) to account for the necessary PAYE and NIC (employee's and employer's) arising on it.

Depending on the CO2 rating of the car, this SOMETIMES (but not always) works out better than having the company owning/leasing the car and the employee being taxed under the Benefit in Kind system.

As he owns/leases the car personally, the company should NOT pay directly for any of the running costs of this car.

scirocco265

421 posts

192 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
Sounds like an ECOS scheme possibly(?)

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim31501.h...

Eric Mc

124,034 posts

281 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
Which is more or less what I was describing.

anonymous-user

70 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
whenever I have looked at doing something like this, there has always been a better option

Kudos

Original Poster:

2,674 posts

190 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
JPJPJP said:
whenever I have looked at doing something like this, there has always been a better option
Such as? Am genuinely interested

Eric Mc

124,034 posts

281 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
Is your friend claiming that he pays no tax or NI at all on the use of this car or is he just ignorant of the fact that he should be paying tax and NI on the Car Allowance he receives from the company?

Does he understand the impact of him paying for the car personally and the implications it has for the company regarding Capital Allowances and/or VAT reclaims?

Is he claiming mileage from the company for business trips (after all, he is using his own car)?

Deva Link

26,934 posts

261 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
Kudos said:
He owns his own company and tells me he took out a personal contract hire on his car (BMW 530D), costing £450/month. He says the company pay him this (£450/month) as he uses it for business use, but interestingly he says there is no tax liability e.g. he gets the £450/month in his hand.
So who pays for the insurance, service & maint etc?

I guess if the car was used excusively for business then this might be feasible - you can claim anything about HMRC, it's only an issue if they look into it. OTOH, if it really is exclusively business then the company might as well own it.

I find I hear this sort of story a lot, but when you dig into it, it's never quite as described. Perhaps the money is made up of mileage allowance - mine is £500-£750/mth paid at the full 40p/25p levels and that's tax free. But the £600/mth allowance I also get is taxed at my normal rate.

Eric Mc

124,034 posts

281 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
Deva Link said:
Kudos said:
He owns his own company and tells me he took out a personal contract hire on his car (BMW 530D), costing £450/month. He says the company pay him this (£450/month) as he uses it for business use, but interestingly he says there is no tax liability e.g. he gets the £450/month in his hand.
So who pays for the insurance, service & maint etc?

I guess if the car was used excusively for business then this might be feasible - you can claim anything about HMRC, it's only an issue if they look into it. OTOH, if it really is exclusively business then the company might as well own it.

I find I hear this sort of story a lot, but when you dig into it, it's never quite as described. Perhaps the money is made up of mileage allowance - mine is £500-£750/mth paid at the full 40p/25p levels and that's tax free. But the £600/mth allowance I also get is taxed at my normal rate.
And the £600 would also be subject to NI.

Deva Link

26,934 posts

261 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
And the £600 would also be subject to NI.
Yep.

There is a suggestion the NI can be reclaimed by the employer if they pay less than the full tax-free mileage rates. Don't know the effect on the employee.

Kudos

Original Poster:

2,674 posts

190 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
I'm from the same camp as you two - either it's a company car with the associated BIK, or it's a car allowance treated as cash with NIC etc.

Think I'll call a custard test on this one and demand more proof.

Out of interest, is there such a "best practice" for cars via businesses, or are there too many if's/buts?

Deva Link

26,934 posts

261 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
Kudos said:
Out of interest, is there such a "best practice" for cars via businesses, or are there too many if's/buts?
Do you mean if it's your own business?

Eric Mc

124,034 posts

281 months

Monday 21st February 2011
quotequote all
The treatment of cars in businesses has two major considerations -

the tax effect and NI it has on the individual

the tax, NI and VAT effect it has on the business

What works out well for one may work out not so well for the other.

The situation is even more complex as one needs to take into account whether the individual is the proprietor of the business. Further permutations arise depending on whether the proprietor is a sole trader/partner or the director of a limited company.