Heating programmer and thermostat advice
Discussion
Hi
Recently moved house (old house) and the central heating system looks new. New combi boiler, however there is only a controller (two channel) and no room thermostat. All the radiators have thermostatic valves, but the boiler never seems to cycle off when the heating is on. Worried that the valve approach is going to be very expensive.
Is there such a thing as a combined controller + thermostat, which also allows control of the water?
I have another issue which is that the salus ep200 controller keeps freezing up. Got a new unit but found the previous owner had tiled around it (kitchen) obscuring the screw which holds it into the backplate!!!!
Recently moved house (old house) and the central heating system looks new. New combi boiler, however there is only a controller (two channel) and no room thermostat. All the radiators have thermostatic valves, but the boiler never seems to cycle off when the heating is on. Worried that the valve approach is going to be very expensive.
Is there such a thing as a combined controller + thermostat, which also allows control of the water?
I have another issue which is that the salus ep200 controller keeps freezing up. Got a new unit but found the previous owner had tiled around it (kitchen) obscuring the screw which holds it into the backplate!!!!
thermo rad valves mean a central stat isn't needed, and installation of one may interfere with accurate individual temp control of each room. (a system relying on a central stat should be properly balanced, this is not so critical when using thermo rad valves.)
Smash the controller off with a hammer, then the backplate can be unscrewed from the wall, and reinstalled with spacers. not like you need it...?
Smash the controller off with a hammer, then the backplate can be unscrewed from the wall, and reinstalled with spacers. not like you need it...?
To get the best from a central heating system, you should have TRV's (Thermostatic Radiator Valves) on your radiators and a room thermostat. The room stat should be positioned in a room which is slightly drafty so it won't be the first room to get hot in your house. Maybe a hallway?
If this room has a radiator, the radiator should be fitted without a TRV so not to conflict with the room stat.
A room stat will control the overall temperature of the house and turn the boiler off and on when it calls for heat (within the set programmed time).
A TRV will control an individual room's temperature. These are useful in rooms that you don't need to get as hot when ever the heating comes on - e.g. guest bedroom - you can turn the TRV down so it'll just keep the chill off when the room is not in use therefore saving you energy.
Without TRV's, the radiators will keep pumping out the heat in every room until the room thermostat reaches it's set temperature.
Without a room thermostat, the boiler will fire away during the allotted programmed time weather it's wanted or not. Wasting you fuel and money at the same time.
You'll need a time clock to go with a combi (single channel). You can get these as wireless models, and you can also get wireless room thermostats. Or to save money, you can get these as a wireless combined unit.
If this room has a radiator, the radiator should be fitted without a TRV so not to conflict with the room stat.
A room stat will control the overall temperature of the house and turn the boiler off and on when it calls for heat (within the set programmed time).
A TRV will control an individual room's temperature. These are useful in rooms that you don't need to get as hot when ever the heating comes on - e.g. guest bedroom - you can turn the TRV down so it'll just keep the chill off when the room is not in use therefore saving you energy.
Without TRV's, the radiators will keep pumping out the heat in every room until the room thermostat reaches it's set temperature.
Without a room thermostat, the boiler will fire away during the allotted programmed time weather it's wanted or not. Wasting you fuel and money at the same time.
You'll need a time clock to go with a combi (single channel). You can get these as wireless models, and you can also get wireless room thermostats. Or to save money, you can get these as a wireless combined unit.
Gingerbread Man said:
To get the best from a central heating system, you should have TRV's (Thermostatic Radiator Valves) on your radiators and a room thermostat. The room stat should be positioned in a room which is slightly drafty so it won't be the first room to get hot in your house. Maybe a hallway?
If this room has a radiator, the radiator should be fitted without a TRV so not to conflict with the room stat.
A room stat will control the overall temperature of the house and turn the boiler off and on when it calls for heat (within the set programmed time).
A TRV will control an individual room's temperature. These are useful in rooms that you don't need to get as hot when ever the heating comes on - e.g. guest bedroom - you can turn the TRV down so it'll just keep the chill off when the room is not in use therefore saving you energy.
Without TRV's, the radiators will keep pumping out the heat in every room until the room thermostat reaches it's set temperature.
Without a room thermostat, the boiler will fire away during the allotted programmed time weather it's wanted or not. Wasting you fuel and money at the same time.
You'll need a time clock to go with a combi (single channel). You can get these as wireless models, and you can also get wireless room thermostats. Or to save money, you can get these as a wireless combined unit.
This is absolutely accurate, but I'd just add that the Room Thermostat should be in the space with most air-changes per hour which is why we choose the hallway. No TRV in this space and normally the radiator balanced so that it heats up slowest, therefore attains room temperature last.If this room has a radiator, the radiator should be fitted without a TRV so not to conflict with the room stat.
A room stat will control the overall temperature of the house and turn the boiler off and on when it calls for heat (within the set programmed time).
A TRV will control an individual room's temperature. These are useful in rooms that you don't need to get as hot when ever the heating comes on - e.g. guest bedroom - you can turn the TRV down so it'll just keep the chill off when the room is not in use therefore saving you energy.
Without TRV's, the radiators will keep pumping out the heat in every room until the room thermostat reaches it's set temperature.
Without a room thermostat, the boiler will fire away during the allotted programmed time weather it's wanted or not. Wasting you fuel and money at the same time.
You'll need a time clock to go with a combi (single channel). You can get these as wireless models, and you can also get wireless room thermostats. Or to save money, you can get these as a wireless combined unit.
Systems without a Room Thermostat are systems either done on the cheap (!) or fitted by poorly trained installers.
I would also add that it contravenes Building Regulation Part 'L' if a Room Thermostat isn't fitted. This dates back to 2005, if my aging memory serves me correctly.
Gingerbread Man said:
To get the best from a central heating system, you should have TRV's (Thermostatic Radiator Valves) on your radiators and a room thermostat. The room stat should be positioned in a room which is slightly drafty so it won't be the first room to get hot in your house. Maybe a hallway?
If this room has a radiator, the radiator should be fitted without a TRV so not to conflict with the room stat.
A room stat will control the overall temperature of the house and turn the boiler off and on when it calls for heat (within the set programmed time).
A TRV will control an individual room's temperature. These are useful in rooms that you don't need to get as hot when ever the heating comes on - e.g. guest bedroom - you can turn the TRV down so it'll just keep the chill off when the room is not in use therefore saving you energy.
Without TRV's, the radiators will keep pumping out the heat in every room until the room thermostat reaches it's set temperature.
Without a room thermostat, the boiler will fire away during the allotted programmed time weather it's wanted or not. Wasting you fuel and money at the same time.
You'll need a time clock to go with a combi (single channel). You can get these as wireless models, and you can also get wireless room thermostats. Or to save money, you can get these as a wireless combined unit.
So can I use my existing two channel programmer, and just add a room thermostat? Do you think adding a thermostat is likely to be significantly more economical than the current TRV's and timer setup? I'm guessing it is going to be a couple of hundred quid to buy and install....If this room has a radiator, the radiator should be fitted without a TRV so not to conflict with the room stat.
A room stat will control the overall temperature of the house and turn the boiler off and on when it calls for heat (within the set programmed time).
A TRV will control an individual room's temperature. These are useful in rooms that you don't need to get as hot when ever the heating comes on - e.g. guest bedroom - you can turn the TRV down so it'll just keep the chill off when the room is not in use therefore saving you energy.
Without TRV's, the radiators will keep pumping out the heat in every room until the room thermostat reaches it's set temperature.
Without a room thermostat, the boiler will fire away during the allotted programmed time weather it's wanted or not. Wasting you fuel and money at the same time.
You'll need a time clock to go with a combi (single channel). You can get these as wireless models, and you can also get wireless room thermostats. Or to save money, you can get these as a wireless combined unit.
Can anyone recommend a model with RF/remote capability?
Thanks
I had just TRVs on my Combi boiler system. Ended up fitting a room stat which gives much better control, when I need more heat I just turn the stat up rather than having to go round the house turning up and down the TRVs.
I fitted mine in the hall and I leave the TRV on the hall rad at full. One of these
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/46637/Plumbing/Centr...
I would advise getting a programmable room thermostat, this will allow you to set different temps at different times of the day. Then just bypass/disconnect the existing programmer. Wireless ones are available but will cost £100+ There are a few on the Screwfix website, you need one that will work with a combi, ie one that only does heating, not hot water.
I fitted mine in the hall and I leave the TRV on the hall rad at full. One of these
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/46637/Plumbing/Centr...
I would advise getting a programmable room thermostat, this will allow you to set different temps at different times of the day. Then just bypass/disconnect the existing programmer. Wireless ones are available but will cost £100+ There are a few on the Screwfix website, you need one that will work with a combi, ie one that only does heating, not hot water.
I'm a cheapskate and bought one of these
Sunvic TLXRFP
Only 50odd quid from here
They very simply send an on/off signal to your boiler and that's all you need really.
It has the full 7 day programmable function which allows you to have different times/temps for every day of the week. It does exctly the same as a better known brand of stat for half the price essentially.
If you do get that one be aware that it defaults to having a 2 degree cut off setting thingy. i.e. you set the stat to 21deg and it will fire the boiler until it reaches 23deg then cut off...weird. It then doesn't kick in again until it drops down to 19deg. This is to stop the boiler constantly kicking in and out I suppose but is to much of a spread - you actually start to feel too hot/cold before it does something.
Anyway - there's a dip switch in the unit that you can flick to reduce this sensitivity to 1 deg which makes it work a treat. It took me a while to suss that one out - RTFM.
Sunvic TLXRFP
Only 50odd quid from here
They very simply send an on/off signal to your boiler and that's all you need really.
It has the full 7 day programmable function which allows you to have different times/temps for every day of the week. It does exctly the same as a better known brand of stat for half the price essentially.
If you do get that one be aware that it defaults to having a 2 degree cut off setting thingy. i.e. you set the stat to 21deg and it will fire the boiler until it reaches 23deg then cut off...weird. It then doesn't kick in again until it drops down to 19deg. This is to stop the boiler constantly kicking in and out I suppose but is to much of a spread - you actually start to feel too hot/cold before it does something.
Anyway - there's a dip switch in the unit that you can flick to reduce this sensitivity to 1 deg which makes it work a treat. It took me a while to suss that one out - RTFM.
dave_s13 said:
I'm a cheapskate and bought one of these
Sunvic TLXRFP
Only 50odd quif from here
They very simple send an on/off signal to your boiler and that's all you need really.
It has the full 7 day programmable function which allows you to have different times/temps for every day of the week. It does exctly the same as a better known brand of stat for half the price essentially.
If you do get that one be aware that it defaults to having a 2 degree cut off setting thingy. i.e. you set the stat to 21deg and it will fire the boiler until it reaches 23deg then cut off...weird. It then doesn't kick in again until it drops down to 19deg. This is to stop the boiler constantly kicking in and out I suppose but is to much of a spread - you actually start to feel too hot/cold before it does something.
Anyway - there's a dip switch in the unit that you can flick to reduce this sensitivity to 1 deg which makes it work a treat. It took me a while to suss that one out - RTFM.
Sorry to be thick - but can I add this to my current setup - ie keep the time controller I have, and have this in addition? i.e the thermo only makes any difference if the timer is also on?Sunvic TLXRFP
Only 50odd quif from here
They very simple send an on/off signal to your boiler and that's all you need really.
It has the full 7 day programmable function which allows you to have different times/temps for every day of the week. It does exctly the same as a better known brand of stat for half the price essentially.
If you do get that one be aware that it defaults to having a 2 degree cut off setting thingy. i.e. you set the stat to 21deg and it will fire the boiler until it reaches 23deg then cut off...weird. It then doesn't kick in again until it drops down to 19deg. This is to stop the boiler constantly kicking in and out I suppose but is to much of a spread - you actually start to feel too hot/cold before it does something.
Anyway - there's a dip switch in the unit that you can flick to reduce this sensitivity to 1 deg which makes it work a treat. It took me a while to suss that one out - RTFM.
thegman said:
dave_s13 said:
I'm a cheapskate and bought one of these
Sunvic TLXRFP
Only 50odd quif from here
They very simple send an on/off signal to your boiler and that's all you need really.
It has the full 7 day programmable function which allows you to have different times/temps for every day of the week. It does exctly the same as a better known brand of stat for half the price essentially.
If you do get that one be aware that it defaults to having a 2 degree cut off setting thingy. i.e. you set the stat to 21deg and it will fire the boiler until it reaches 23deg then cut off...weird. It then doesn't kick in again until it drops down to 19deg. This is to stop the boiler constantly kicking in and out I suppose but is to much of a spread - you actually start to feel too hot/cold before it does something.
Anyway - there's a dip switch in the unit that you can flick to reduce this sensitivity to 1 deg which makes it work a treat. It took me a while to suss that one out - RTFM.
Sorry to be thick - but can I add this to my current setup - ie keep the time controller I have, and have this in addition? i.e the thermo only makes any difference if the timer is also on?Sunvic TLXRFP
Only 50odd quif from here
They very simple send an on/off signal to your boiler and that's all you need really.
It has the full 7 day programmable function which allows you to have different times/temps for every day of the week. It does exctly the same as a better known brand of stat for half the price essentially.
If you do get that one be aware that it defaults to having a 2 degree cut off setting thingy. i.e. you set the stat to 21deg and it will fire the boiler until it reaches 23deg then cut off...weird. It then doesn't kick in again until it drops down to 19deg. This is to stop the boiler constantly kicking in and out I suppose but is to much of a spread - you actually start to feel too hot/cold before it does something.
Anyway - there's a dip switch in the unit that you can flick to reduce this sensitivity to 1 deg which makes it work a treat. It took me a while to suss that one out - RTFM.
thegman said:
Thanks all. It just seems stupid to have the current two channel programmer stuck there just controlling the heating. I am suprised there isn't a combined 2 channel controller with wireless and thermostat as one unit, but I cant seem to find one...
But you don't need a two channel controller, are you confused about the hot water? On a Combi boiler the timer/programmer/thermostat has no barring on the HW, this is on demand when you turn on a tap.All you need is a programmable thermostat, as already stated, this will control the heating, you can then get rid of your existing controller, which sounds like it could be the wrong type anyway if it has a HW control?
cjs said:
But you don't need a two channel controller, are you confused about the hot water? On a Combi boiler the timer/programmer/thermostat has no barring on the HW, this is on demand when you turn on a tap.
All you need is a programmable thermostat, as already stated, this will control the heating, you can then get rid of your existing controller, which sounds like it could be the wrong type anyway if it has a HW control?
ok - sorry i am probably asking thick questions.All you need is a programmable thermostat, as already stated, this will control the heating, you can then get rid of your existing controller, which sounds like it could be the wrong type anyway if it has a HW control?
i currently have a salus ep200 2 channel controller. and a glow worm combi boiler. the programmer allows be to turn the water off on a program. I do this out of habit - not sure why. Are you saying that the hot water should be left permanently on?
i have noticed that if i want a lot of hot water (say a bath) and the water has been off, I need to turn it on an leave it for 10-15 mins or there wont be enough hot water. is this normal?
so if i replace the current unit with a single channel wireless base unit - do i need wire it so the water is effectively on all the time?
again - sorry if these are numpty questions
ETA - also have a hot water tank (which does have a heater but I have this switched off) - not sure what the point of it is if I am meant to have on demand hot water?
Edited by thegman on Tuesday 22 February 10:22
We need Ferg to come along and set you straight.
Sounds like you don't have a conventional on demand HW system as per a usual combi set up. If the HW discharges to a storage tank (which is swithed off??) then surely you have to wait untill the contents of this (now cold) tank empties before getting any HW to the tap, which may account for the 10min wait.
Sounds like you need to bypass the storage tank, or not. Like I say, you need someone who knows what they're on about.
Sounds like you don't have a conventional on demand HW system as per a usual combi set up. If the HW discharges to a storage tank (which is swithed off??) then surely you have to wait untill the contents of this (now cold) tank empties before getting any HW to the tap, which may account for the 10min wait.
Sounds like you need to bypass the storage tank, or not. Like I say, you need someone who knows what they're on about.
dave_s13 said:
We need Ferg to come along and set you straight.
Sounds like you don't have a conventional on demand HW system as per a usual combi set up. If the HW discharges to a storage tank (which is swithed off??) then surely you have to wait untill the contents of this (now cold) tank empties before getting any HW to the tap, which may account for the 10min wait.
Sounds like you need to bypass the storage tank, or not. Like I say, you need someone who knows what they're on about.
Hmm. I will check tonight if my boiler is defo a combi. Perhaps I am getting confused. Sounds like you don't have a conventional on demand HW system as per a usual combi set up. If the HW discharges to a storage tank (which is swithed off??) then surely you have to wait untill the contents of this (now cold) tank empties before getting any HW to the tap, which may account for the 10min wait.
Sounds like you need to bypass the storage tank, or not. Like I say, you need someone who knows what they're on about.
cjs said:
Do you have a hot water tank? If so I doubt weather you have a Combi boiler. If so the hole thread has been a waste of time! Are you sure you are not getting confused and have a conventional condensing boiler?
Very possibly. I was convinced it was a combi but I will check the manual tonight. Will the dramatically change the way I integrate a thermostat then?Once again many thanks for helping improve my very basic knowledge of HW/CH systems
thegman said:
cjs said:
Do you have a hot water tank? If so I doubt weather you have a Combi boiler. If so the hole thread has been a waste of time! Are you sure you are not getting confused and have a conventional condensing boiler?
Very possibly. I was convinced it was a combi but I will check the manual tonight. Will the dramatically change the way I integrate a thermostat then?Once again many thanks for helping improve my very basic knowledge of HW/CH systems
cjs said:
Not really however you will probably only need a room thermostat and keep your existing programmer. So a simple wireless room stat will work however it is more difficult to integrate into the system, best get a plumber involved.
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