Newbie Bike Powered Westy/Kit Car Advice Please
Discussion
Hi, some advice if you please.
Currently contemplating a bike powered 7 type car for weekend use only, no track use planned. There are a variety of prices/models/specs to choose from in various classifieds, and pricing seems to be anything from £6k to £16k.
Question is, given I'm not mechanically minded, I'd need to rely on paying mechanics to keep it right, is it going to be a moneypit? Can anyone suggest a figure for annual 'repairs'. I'm not talking servicing costs, but niggles/failures/things going pop.
My old Elise used to have a quoted annual figure of £500-£1000 for 'stuff' to keep it right, which seemed to be fairly accurate given my 4 year of ownership. Just wondered if anyone could pluck such a figure out of the air for such a car.
Any advice much appreciated
Thanks in advance.
Currently contemplating a bike powered 7 type car for weekend use only, no track use planned. There are a variety of prices/models/specs to choose from in various classifieds, and pricing seems to be anything from £6k to £16k.
Question is, given I'm not mechanically minded, I'd need to rely on paying mechanics to keep it right, is it going to be a moneypit? Can anyone suggest a figure for annual 'repairs'. I'm not talking servicing costs, but niggles/failures/things going pop.
My old Elise used to have a quoted annual figure of £500-£1000 for 'stuff' to keep it right, which seemed to be fairly accurate given my 4 year of ownership. Just wondered if anyone could pluck such a figure out of the air for such a car.
Any advice much appreciated
Thanks in advance.
Hello, I have been running bike engined cars for 8 years now. Considering how much abuse I dished out to them, they are by far the most cost effective toy I have ever had. Not getting too deep as bike engined cars have been done to death on here, but roughly all I expect to pay out each year on it are tyres ( get about 3,000 miles per set of soft track rubber like Yoko 21R, 48R or Toyo R888.) at around £400 per set. You will get longer life from mor conventional tyres, plus my car does get driven very hard. Oil, filter, plugs, fresh coolant, brake pads all round say £200 per year. A clutch.... I do one acyear on average but only costs about ))£120 in parts and can be done engine in situ in about 1 hour. Easy job. That really is all I expect to have to pay out. The car will do 30-40mpg on the Motorway, about 10mpg when thrashed. If the engine goes pop ( which they never have on me yet ) I will just buy a whole new engine from a damaged bike for about £1,000, and will have it swapped over easily in about 5 hours to a running condition.
So, apart from the clutch, there is nothing really to be concerned about, just the usual consumable items which you associate with any car. But you do need to get a ride in one before you take the plunge, as dome people absolutely hate bike engined cars and cannot put up with the din.
Best thing to do is get yourself to the huge Stoneleigh show in May.
So, apart from the clutch, there is nothing really to be concerned about, just the usual consumable items which you associate with any car. But you do need to get a ride in one before you take the plunge, as dome people absolutely hate bike engined cars and cannot put up with the din.
Best thing to do is get yourself to the huge Stoneleigh show in May.
Hiya, I've not had a bike engined kitcar before, only a car engined one (Tiger Cat with Toyota 16v lump).
I've been looking into getting another kitcar, but a sportier/faster one (the Cat had too much sierra in it for my liking).
I've looked at the bike engined ones, and they seem pretty good as long as you can deal with the manic power delivery and thrashing them (something close to my heart after having a Honda S2000).
The main cost seems to be if you do 'pop' an engine, then they is a massive difference in price to get a replacement bike engine compared to say a car engine.
Fireblades seem to be the cheapest to replace - but something like a blackbird or Busa engine are devastatingly expensive from what I've read.
When you compare that to the price of say a zetec lump it's a huge factor in my opinion.
On that basis I'm probably going to go for a car engined kitcar again.
Just my 2p worth.
I've been looking into getting another kitcar, but a sportier/faster one (the Cat had too much sierra in it for my liking).
I've looked at the bike engined ones, and they seem pretty good as long as you can deal with the manic power delivery and thrashing them (something close to my heart after having a Honda S2000).
The main cost seems to be if you do 'pop' an engine, then they is a massive difference in price to get a replacement bike engine compared to say a car engine.
Fireblades seem to be the cheapest to replace - but something like a blackbird or Busa engine are devastatingly expensive from what I've read.
When you compare that to the price of say a zetec lump it's a huge factor in my opinion.
On that basis I'm probably going to go for a car engined kitcar again.
Just my 2p worth.
Got 8 years out my last blade motor before the gearbox gave up, engine was still fine, that was a £600 engine, dropped a busa in 2 years ago cost £1200, still going strong after lots of track work, 3 track days so far in 2011 with another booked in March so plenty of abuse going on. Maintenance over the 2 years to date is oil plugs and filters, thats it.
Horses for course's but I can live with it, older busa engines can now be had for under £1500 without looking to hard, cheaper if you search and are patient, if my current one went pop tomorrow I feel I've had my monies worth from it already.
Horses for course's but I can live with it, older busa engines can now be had for under £1500 without looking to hard, cheaper if you search and are patient, if my current one went pop tomorrow I feel I've had my monies worth from it already.
Thanks for the posts so far.
I'm sure I'm probably getting into repost territory here, so apologies if I am, feel free to point me in the right direction, but are there any reliability comparisons of, say, Blade v Bird v Busa. As per my opening post I dont want a money pit, so reliability is key for me. I'm sure like anything, there'll be good and bad experiences of each, but I'd be keen to hear of the bigger picture.
Thanks again.
I'm sure I'm probably getting into repost territory here, so apologies if I am, feel free to point me in the right direction, but are there any reliability comparisons of, say, Blade v Bird v Busa. As per my opening post I dont want a money pit, so reliability is key for me. I'm sure like anything, there'll be good and bad experiences of each, but I'd be keen to hear of the bigger picture.
Thanks again.
I have a busa powered westfield. Its superb on track, really superb. However for a weekend toy with no track work I'd go for a car engine - preferrably a V8. Bike engines are difficult to drive at low speeds and a nightmare in traffic.
However, one of the benefits of a bike engined car is that there is lots of space in the engine bay, so its easy to figure out how everything works and a great place to start some spannering yourself.
As for maintenance costs - not a lot....you can do basic servicing yourself easily...."service history" isn't a concept in kit cars, only current condition counts. So your only costs are if something breaks - most parts are easily sourced and generally simple to fit, with good support on forums etc.
Getting someone else to do it - again, any garage willing to five it a go will find it an easy job - difficulty is sourcing the correct parts, but you can do this yourself and supply them to the garage. You may find some car garages don't want to touch it, and bike garages will generally ask you to remove the engine before work.
Upgrades/tinkering will cost you more than repairs unless you're unlucky.
However, one of the benefits of a bike engined car is that there is lots of space in the engine bay, so its easy to figure out how everything works and a great place to start some spannering yourself.
As for maintenance costs - not a lot....you can do basic servicing yourself easily...."service history" isn't a concept in kit cars, only current condition counts. So your only costs are if something breaks - most parts are easily sourced and generally simple to fit, with good support on forums etc.
Getting someone else to do it - again, any garage willing to five it a go will find it an easy job - difficulty is sourcing the correct parts, but you can do this yourself and supply them to the garage. You may find some car garages don't want to touch it, and bike garages will generally ask you to remove the engine before work.
Upgrades/tinkering will cost you more than repairs unless you're unlucky.
Have to disagree about being difficult to drive at slow speed and tricky in traffic. They are not, period. Clunky shift fron neutral to first maybe, but I have crawled into London evening West End traffic, no problems, even conversing with pedestrians asking questions while driving. I can hillstart with no handbrake, never stall it and drive it 100% as normally as the Porsche or Soob.
And you cannot really compare an £800 Zetec with an £800 bike engine. In my experience getting a Zetec to comparable power-to-weight of even a modest bike engine is ££££££s. if your 200bhp Dunnell Zetec goes pop, it wont cost you £800.
A very good choice of all-round bike engine is the R1. Mine is a 5PW 2003 injection, 150'ish bhp and all it needs is for installation in a car is uprated Barnett clutch springs (£20), a baffled modified sump ( cheap ) and a Powercommander. Done 15,000 abusive miles including 3 full-on Alp roadtrips to Monte Carlo, 10+ trackdays ( 6 in Zolder, Belgium, driven there and back ) 10+ airfield days, 3 Charity ride days at Donnington park and still going strong. Just check the levels, warm it up properly and spank it. They are not unreliable in the slightest.
And you cannot really compare an £800 Zetec with an £800 bike engine. In my experience getting a Zetec to comparable power-to-weight of even a modest bike engine is ££££££s. if your 200bhp Dunnell Zetec goes pop, it wont cost you £800.
A very good choice of all-round bike engine is the R1. Mine is a 5PW 2003 injection, 150'ish bhp and all it needs is for installation in a car is uprated Barnett clutch springs (£20), a baffled modified sump ( cheap ) and a Powercommander. Done 15,000 abusive miles including 3 full-on Alp roadtrips to Monte Carlo, 10+ trackdays ( 6 in Zolder, Belgium, driven there and back ) 10+ airfield days, 3 Charity ride days at Donnington park and still going strong. Just check the levels, warm it up properly and spank it. They are not unreliable in the slightest.
Yazza, there are two types of clutch in an R1, but both need "toughening up" a bit or they will not last too long as they are designed for 280kgs of bike and rider not 550 kgs of car and driver. I ran my 'blade totally standard for about 6 months before it started to slip. Fortunately they are cheap and easy to replace. Also in yours if you do not use the clutch to shift gears then they last even longer. I do generally use the cluch, but then by being a bit kinder to my transmissions I have not had a single gearbox failiure in 8 years!
Furyblade_Lee said:
Yazza, there are two types of clutch in an R1, but both need "toughening up" a bit or they will not last too long as they are designed for 280kgs of bike and rider not 550 kgs of car and driver. I ran my 'blade totally standard for about 6 months before it started to slip. Fortunately they are cheap and easy to replace. Also in yours if you do not use the clutch to shift gears then they last even longer. I do generally use the cluch, but then by being a bit kinder to my transmissions I have not had a single gearbox failiure in 8 years!
Well you know more about it than me! Either way OP, even If the clutches don't last that long.. I changed mine in about 30 minutes and it cost me no more than 50 quid.
Fair enough they may not last as long as car clutches but they're designed to changed regularly. I'm sure you could do a clutch change/service yourself with no trouble.
As Lee says, you can give them abuse all day long, alot of people tend to forget about the gearing... With tiny 13 inch wheels and gearing to top out around 120-130 you're putting a lot less strain on the clutch/gearbox as you may think.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
This is mine,bit of a write up and info which may help.
This is mine,bit of a write up and info which may help.
Nedz said:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
This is mine,bit of a write up and info which may help.
Seany D,ive just noticed you already had a look at this when i posted it originally.This is mine,bit of a write up and info which may help.
With my comments above on bike/car engines I was referring more to the lower end of prices for this type of car as that's the impression I got of where the budget would be.
I'm looking at spending upto £7k on a kit car - which means most bike engined cars are blades, with the occassion R1, or ZX12R - although lots don't have a reverse gearbox/electric reverse.
It's mentioned it'll be mostly for road use (and that's mostly what mine will be for with occassional track work) so a car engine equivalent at that price range is likely to be a fairly standard zetec on carbs. Hence cheap to replace if you break it.
Clearly if you are looking at Busas then you're likely to be looking at cars priced in excess of £10k, so car engined cars will be runnign more highly tuned/stressed lumps so that may even out replacement costs.
Again, just my 2p worth!
I'm looking at spending upto £7k on a kit car - which means most bike engined cars are blades, with the occassion R1, or ZX12R - although lots don't have a reverse gearbox/electric reverse.
It's mentioned it'll be mostly for road use (and that's mostly what mine will be for with occassional track work) so a car engine equivalent at that price range is likely to be a fairly standard zetec on carbs. Hence cheap to replace if you break it.
Clearly if you are looking at Busas then you're likely to be looking at cars priced in excess of £10k, so car engined cars will be runnign more highly tuned/stressed lumps so that may even out replacement costs.
Again, just my 2p worth!
Hi sean,Im unsure now weather or not i will be selling the westfield.I have been thinking of changing my road car for the last six months or so now as i have had it nearly four years and the only cars i fancy mean me selling the westy and throwing a load of cash at it aswell.
I am self employed and i am wondering if spending all my dosh on a new car would be such a wise move at the moment.
I am also aching to get back in it as i have not driven it now since last october!
As far as costs go,mine has hardly cost me anything:
Tax and insurance: £390 per year.(3k miles limit)
oils and spark plug change each year £110.(done by myself easy)
And thats about it.
When i bought the car it had new tyres all round(Toyo R888 med compound) and new pads and discs on the front.I have covered over 3k miles in it and they look no different whatsoever to when they were new! The car is so light it puts hardly any strain on components at all and they are cheap as chips to replace when you need to.
My car is still on the same clutch that was in there when the car was built some 9 years and 15k miles ago and is absolutely fine.If you are launching the car all the time or doing loads of trackdays then it might be a different story.
As already stated,the main things to worry obout are if the engine or gearbox goes bang. Other than that parts and consumables are very cheap and last for ages anyway.
On the whole it is by far the most cost effective thing i have ever owned.It has probably cost me less than a grand a year in total and that includes fuel and im sure i will get back virtually what i paid for it when i decide to sell it,and the enjoyment it has given me has been priceless!
I am self employed and i am wondering if spending all my dosh on a new car would be such a wise move at the moment.
I am also aching to get back in it as i have not driven it now since last october!
As far as costs go,mine has hardly cost me anything:
Tax and insurance: £390 per year.(3k miles limit)
oils and spark plug change each year £110.(done by myself easy)
And thats about it.
When i bought the car it had new tyres all round(Toyo R888 med compound) and new pads and discs on the front.I have covered over 3k miles in it and they look no different whatsoever to when they were new! The car is so light it puts hardly any strain on components at all and they are cheap as chips to replace when you need to.
My car is still on the same clutch that was in there when the car was built some 9 years and 15k miles ago and is absolutely fine.If you are launching the car all the time or doing loads of trackdays then it might be a different story.
As already stated,the main things to worry obout are if the engine or gearbox goes bang. Other than that parts and consumables are very cheap and last for ages anyway.
On the whole it is by far the most cost effective thing i have ever owned.It has probably cost me less than a grand a year in total and that includes fuel and im sure i will get back virtually what i paid for it when i decide to sell it,and the enjoyment it has given me has been priceless!
You have got to change the roll bar on your car Nedz. The standard bar that is on yours is way too low and wouldn't be much use as they bend. There are pictures of one on the WSCC forum somewhere.
There is a group buy on the Playskool bars on the WSCC at the moment.
The clutch on a Megabusa can be improved by re-drilling the hole for the clevis pin lower down. Not had to do it on mine as I am using the Nova Racing/SBD dry sump and that means you use a different clutch slave.
The girlfriend can drive it in her heels no problem at all
Gratuitous picture of my car now.
Cant wait to get back out in it again this year - hopefully next weekend if all goes well
There is a group buy on the Playskool bars on the WSCC at the moment.
The clutch on a Megabusa can be improved by re-drilling the hole for the clevis pin lower down. Not had to do it on mine as I am using the Nova Racing/SBD dry sump and that means you use a different clutch slave.
The girlfriend can drive it in her heels no problem at all
Gratuitous picture of my car now.
Cant wait to get back out in it again this year - hopefully next weekend if all goes well
Interesting reading here and very similar line of thought. 6' 15 stone not a pie boy but wide shoulders.
Looking to sell my big jetski (215Hp with S/C and I/C) as just dont use it as much as I should and want to fill the gap in the gargae before SWMBO tries to spend the money on something else.
So would have around a £6K budget so looking at a wide body Westfiled SEI or similar bike engined car (always had bikes since 16)
As its my first foray looking for a finished car ready to go, I understand pros and cons of bike engines vs cars jsut looking for someone who woudl happily have a chat 1st.
Looking to sell my big jetski (215Hp with S/C and I/C) as just dont use it as much as I should and want to fill the gap in the gargae before SWMBO tries to spend the money on something else.
So would have around a £6K budget so looking at a wide body Westfiled SEI or similar bike engined car (always had bikes since 16)
As its my first foray looking for a finished car ready to go, I understand pros and cons of bike engines vs cars jsut looking for someone who woudl happily have a chat 1st.
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