Co Hse rejected my accounts
Discussion
A few years ago they wrote to me on presentation of my accounts re the goal posts had moved and I was required to have certain statements on the balance sheet.
This was duly done to their satisfaction, but now it appears things have changed again (think they missed it last two years).
This was duly done to their satisfaction, but now it appears things have changed again (think they missed it last two years).
My accounts said:
In the preparation of these accounts, the Directors have :-
a) taken advantage of Section 249A(1) of the Companies Act 1985 in not having these accounts audited.
b) have confirmed that no notice has been deposited under Section 249B(2) of the Companies Act 1985.
c) ensured that the Company's accounting records comply with Section 221 of the Companies Act 1985.
d) ensured that these accounts give a true and fair view of the Company's affairs at 15th July 2010 and of its profit and loss for the year then ended in accordance with section 226, and which otherwise comply with the requirements of the Companies Act 1985 relating to accounts, so far as applicable to the company.
e) taken advantage of the exemptions conferred by Section 246 of the Companies Act 1985 on the basis that the Company qualifies as a small company because: i) the annual turnover was less than £2,800,000, ii) the balance sheet total was less than £1,400,000, and, iii) the average number of employees was less than 50.
a) taken advantage of Section 249A(1) of the Companies Act 1985 in not having these accounts audited.
b) have confirmed that no notice has been deposited under Section 249B(2) of the Companies Act 1985.
c) ensured that the Company's accounting records comply with Section 221 of the Companies Act 1985.
d) ensured that these accounts give a true and fair view of the Company's affairs at 15th July 2010 and of its profit and loss for the year then ended in accordance with section 226, and which otherwise comply with the requirements of the Companies Act 1985 relating to accounts, so far as applicable to the company.
e) taken advantage of the exemptions conferred by Section 246 of the Companies Act 1985 on the basis that the Company qualifies as a small company because: i) the annual turnover was less than £2,800,000, ii) the balance sheet total was less than £1,400,000, and, iii) the average number of employees was less than 50.
Companies House said:
Thank you for your enclosed document. Unfortunately, we have been unable to accept it for the following reasons:
The accounts refer to a period commencing after 6th Apr 2008 and are therefore subject to the 2006 Companies Act – the Accounting Statements provided do not refer to that 2006 Act.
Accounts that claim full exemption from audit must have the following statements on the balance sheet above the director’s signature:
For the year ending (year end date) the company was entitled to exemption from audit under section 477(2) of the Companies Act 2006.
The members have not required the company to obtain an audit in accordance with section 476 of the Companies Act 2006.
The directors acknowledge their responsibilities for complying with the requirements of the Act with respect to accounting periods and preparation of these accounts.
Small company/abbreviated accounts must have the following statement-Companies Act 2006 also on the balance sheet above the director’s signature:
“These accounts have been delivered in accordance with the provisions applicable to companies subject to the small companies regime”.
The name of the signatory is not present on the Balance Sheet. This must be provided in all cases.
The thing is, do I have to simply replace the what they asked for before with now what they’ve asked for and add my name in caps before the signature, or is it an amalgamation of the two, ie does the new act to which they refer wholly supersede the previous act ?The accounts refer to a period commencing after 6th Apr 2008 and are therefore subject to the 2006 Companies Act – the Accounting Statements provided do not refer to that 2006 Act.
Accounts that claim full exemption from audit must have the following statements on the balance sheet above the director’s signature:
For the year ending (year end date) the company was entitled to exemption from audit under section 477(2) of the Companies Act 2006.
The members have not required the company to obtain an audit in accordance with section 476 of the Companies Act 2006.
The directors acknowledge their responsibilities for complying with the requirements of the Act with respect to accounting periods and preparation of these accounts.
Small company/abbreviated accounts must have the following statement-Companies Act 2006 also on the balance sheet above the director’s signature:
“These accounts have been delivered in accordance with the provisions applicable to companies subject to the small companies regime”.
The name of the signatory is not present on the Balance Sheet. This must be provided in all cases.
Edited by Chuggaboom on Wednesday 23 February 10:14
Oh joy.
Had you not realised that Company Law had been changed FUNDAMENTALLY a year and a half ago through the introduction of the Companies Act 2006?
I can guarantee that Co House will be rejecting accounts hand over fist over the next few months.
A handy way of picking up increased revenue through penalties.
It is a totally new act with lots of changes to disclosure notes, statements etc so you MUST be aware of what you should be including in your accounts before you submit them.
Had you not realised that Company Law had been changed FUNDAMENTALLY a year and a half ago through the introduction of the Companies Act 2006?
I can guarantee that Co House will be rejecting accounts hand over fist over the next few months.
A handy way of picking up increased revenue through penalties.
It is a totally new act with lots of changes to disclosure notes, statements etc so you MUST be aware of what you should be including in your accounts before you submit them.
Eric Mc said:
Had you not realised that Company Law had been changed FUNDAMENTALLY a year and a half ago through the introduction of the Companies Act 2006?
Obviously not from the sequence of events described...and why should I as I'm not an accountant ?Eric Mc said:
I can guarantee that Co House will be rejecting accounts hand over fist over the next few months.
A handy way of picking up increased revenue through penalties.
Cos they reject them and then you run out of time to file "in their eyes" correctly. What is the time limit....9 months same as Corporation tax ?A handy way of picking up increased revenue through penalties.
Chuggaboom said:
Eric Mc said:
Had you not realised that Company Law had been changed FUNDAMENTALLY a year and a half ago through the introduction of the Companies Act 2006?
Obviously not from the sequence of events described...and why should I as I'm not an accountant ?Eric Mc said:
I can guarantee that Co House will be rejecting accounts hand over fist over the next few months.
A handy way of picking up increased revenue through penalties.
Cos they reject them and then you run out of time to file "in their eyes" correctly. What is the time limit....9 months same as Corporation tax ?A handy way of picking up increased revenue through penalties.
Small limitedf companies normally have nine months from the end of their financial year end to file statutory (and correct) accounts at Companies House.
They also have nine months within which to pay their Corporation Tax liabilities, if any.
They have twelve months within which to submit their accounts, tax computations and tax return to HMRC.
But of course, as a director, you would have known all this anyway.
I assume you must now be completely geared up for the compulsory electronic filing of your company accounts and tax returns to HMRC under the iXBRL tagging system - which become effective in about six week's time?
Thanks.
No point in being rude to people.
However, it does seem that he could have serious problems regarding geting his accounts accepted.
What's the bets that his previous accounts weren't quite right either. It's just that Co House usually accept accounts which are not right simply because
a) they don't notice
b) they don't care
With the recent changes to Company Law, having accounts which quote the 1985 Act all over them is just too blatant a howler to allow to be filed without rejection.
Even without Companies CAt changes, I would suggest that around 90% of accounts filed without the input of a competent accountant are always wrong. It's just that Co House have not bothered rejecting them in the past.
No point in being rude to people
.However, it does seem that he could have serious problems regarding geting his accounts accepted.
What's the bets that his previous accounts weren't quite right either. It's just that Co House usually accept accounts which are not right simply because
a) they don't notice
b) they don't care
With the recent changes to Company Law, having accounts which quote the 1985 Act all over them is just too blatant a howler to allow to be filed without rejection.
Even without Companies CAt changes, I would suggest that around 90% of accounts filed without the input of a competent accountant are always wrong. It's just that Co House have not bothered rejecting them in the past.
Fair point.
Moving forward, if the OPer downloads the PDF "CHONLY_v2.0.1.pdf" from Companies House website, it should allow you to submit it in a suitable format online. I'd set aside a good few hours to complete it, though. I think you can access the PDF by following the links when wanting to submit electronically in the iXBRL format. (Might be easier to phone their tech support and get them to email you a copy.)
Moving forward, if the OPer downloads the PDF "CHONLY_v2.0.1.pdf" from Companies House website, it should allow you to submit it in a suitable format online. I'd set aside a good few hours to complete it, though. I think you can access the PDF by following the links when wanting to submit electronically in the iXBRL format. (Might be easier to phone their tech support and get them to email you a copy.)
Edited by RemainAllHoof on Wednesday 23 February 12:38
RemainAllHoof said:
Fair point.
Moving forward, if the OPer downloads the PDF "CHONLY_v2.0.1.pdf" from Companies House website, it should allow you to submit it in a suitable format online. I'd set aside a good few hours to complete it, though. I think you can access the PDF by following the links when wanting to submit electronically in the iXBRL format. (Might be easier to phone their tech support and get them to email you a copy.)
Or get an accountant who's already set up for all this.Moving forward, if the OPer downloads the PDF "CHONLY_v2.0.1.pdf" from Companies House website, it should allow you to submit it in a suitable format online. I'd set aside a good few hours to complete it, though. I think you can access the PDF by following the links when wanting to submit electronically in the iXBRL format. (Might be easier to phone their tech support and get them to email you a copy.)
Edited by RemainAllHoof on Wednesday 23 February 12:38
I wonder is the OP up to speed on the disclosure requirements of Section 413 of the 2006 Act. It is confusing the hell out of accountants, and they are supposed to know what they are doing.
And I reckon it applies to a huge amount of small owner managed limited companies.
I haven't used it yet but my software is Iris and they are insistent that the package is fully compatible now with the iXBRL requirements.
They were NOT one of the software companies who lobbied to have the implementation date postponed.
So, I don't have any paricular "feelings" about it yet. I'll let you know when I start making submissions.
They were NOT one of the software companies who lobbied to have the implementation date postponed.
So, I don't have any paricular "feelings" about it yet. I'll let you know when I start making submissions.
Eric Mc said:
Chuggaboom said:
Eric Mc said:
Had you not realised that Company Law had been changed FUNDAMENTALLY a year and a half ago through the introduction of the Companies Act 2006?
Obviously not from the sequence of events described...and why should I as I'm not an accountant ?Eric Mc said:
I can guarantee that Co House will be rejecting accounts hand over fist over the next few months.
A handy way of picking up increased revenue through penalties.
Cos they reject them and then you run out of time to file "in their eyes" correctly. What is the time limit....9 months same as Corporation tax ?A handy way of picking up increased revenue through penalties.
Small limitedf companies normally have nine months from the end of their financial year end to file statutory (and correct) accounts at Companies House.
They also have nine months within which to pay their Corporation Tax liabilities, if any.
They have twelve months within which to submit their accounts, tax computations and tax return to HMRC.
But of course, as a director, you would have known all this anyway.
I assume you must now be completely geared up for the compulsory electronic filing of your company accounts and tax returns to HMRC under the iXBRL tagging system - which become effective in about six week's time?
Given that he hasn't got his accounts correct I can't see much hope of him dealing with iXBRL. Even if he does use HMRC's online forms he will still need to deal with iXBRL in a couple of years when Companies House make it compulsory.
Wea re going to be seeing a lot of new fees for tagging people's accounts over the next few months but I suspect an exponential rise in the hassle we have to go through to file the tax returns. Might just refuse to deal with anything other than partnerships from now on!
Wea re going to be seeing a lot of new fees for tagging people's accounts over the next few months but I suspect an exponential rise in the hassle we have to go through to file the tax returns. Might just refuse to deal with anything other than partnerships from now on!
Not really an option when you work in a Big 4 environment - for the small amount of accounts prep that we do as a firm the software will do it. For the rest (in my case limited companies as part of hedge fund or PE structures) have to use separate tagging software and whatever set of word/excel based accounts the client has produced. Fortunately won't actually be involved in the tagging itself but will have to deal with all of the client relationship side of the work.
Edited by markh1973 on Wednesday 23 February 16:55
This is precisely why I use an accountant. To be honest, running a Limited Company and trying to make all the returns yourself is just taking penny-pinching a step too far. I've always taken it as a rule of thumb that if you run a Ltd. Company you pretty much have to have an accountant.
JonRB said:
This is precisely why I use an accountant. To be honest, running a Limited Company and trying to make all the returns yourself is just taking penny-pinching a step too far. I've always taken it as a rule of thumb that if you run a Ltd. Company you pretty much have to have an accountant.
As an accountant I am bound to agree .My impression is that directors who try to complete and submit statutory limited company accounts themselves are working in a Donald Runsfeld environment i.e. they are dealing with "unknown unknowns" - and they don't realise it.
The introduction of compulsory on-line iXBRL filing and the associated tagging of accounts will only compound this situation.
Eric Mc said:
I haven't used it yet but my software is Iris and they are insistent that the package is fully compatible now with the iXBRL requirements.
They were NOT one of the software companies who lobbied to have the implementation date postponed.
So, I don't have any paricular "feelings" about it yet. I'll let you know when I start making submissions.
Same here, have you been on one of their 'breakfast' courses? i'm thinking of giving it a shot cos I need to learn a lot more about iXBRL....They were NOT one of the software companies who lobbied to have the implementation date postponed.
So, I don't have any paricular "feelings" about it yet. I'll let you know when I start making submissions.
Ah ha....a few posts while I've been out....doing real work !
Thank you for confirming the 9 months limit as I suggested....I knew it was 9 months for CT but couldn't recall if it was the same for the accounts....I'm sure at one time in the past they didn't line up.
As to online filing, I'm all set up with VAT, PAYE and CT through the HMRC TVM.
Eric Mc said:
As a director of a limited company, you are supposed to be aware of the legal framework under which the company conducts its activities. When that comes to accounts, this means chiefly the relevant Companies Act as well as the various reporting requirements set out by Financial Reporting Standards (probbaly the FRSSE in your case - I take it you are aware of this) and other legislation, such as Corporation Tax regulations.
Small limitedf companies normally have nine months from the end of their financial year end to file statutory (and correct) accounts at Companies House.
They also have nine months within which to pay their Corporation Tax liabilities, if any.
They have twelve months within which to submit their accounts, tax computations and tax return to HMRC.
But of course, as a director, you would have known all this anyway.
I assume you must now be completely geared up for the compulsory electronic filing of your company accounts and tax returns to HMRC under the iXBRL tagging system - which become effective in about six week's time?
In general, no I'm not aware unless the institutions involved write to me telling me about the various requirements of change to this and that etc. If I had time to research on all fronts the possibilities, then I might be aware prior to their communications in advance of them arriving !Small limitedf companies normally have nine months from the end of their financial year end to file statutory (and correct) accounts at Companies House.
They also have nine months within which to pay their Corporation Tax liabilities, if any.
They have twelve months within which to submit their accounts, tax computations and tax return to HMRC.
But of course, as a director, you would have known all this anyway.
I assume you must now be completely geared up for the compulsory electronic filing of your company accounts and tax returns to HMRC under the iXBRL tagging system - which become effective in about six week's time?
Thank you for confirming the 9 months limit as I suggested....I knew it was 9 months for CT but couldn't recall if it was the same for the accounts....I'm sure at one time in the past they didn't line up.
As to online filing, I'm all set up with VAT, PAYE and CT through the HMRC TVM.
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