Soft Roader estates

[Harry Flashman]

Anyone know anything about the Audi A6 Allroad (last shape)?

Quite fancy one, as useful for muddy fields (shooting) and I suspect that it will survive long periods of not being used, with little hassle, and not lose tonnes of money in depreciation. It's just a lifted A6 Quattro avant, right? And you seem to be able to get a 2002-3 example for £5k or so.

My V70R AWD is boring me - the AWD is broken (common fault) meaning it's no use as a shooting hack (and wasn't anyway due to poor ground clearance), it does teens MPG and the interior is a bit low rent. Amusing at speed - which means it's completely pointless in London. I'm going to MOT it and flog it for £1750 (it's mechanically good apart from the 4x4 issue (I just removed the propshaft), but has been keyed on one side and scratched on a fence post on the other, so can't really command the £2.5k that pampered 2wd examples get)

For the same reason, I won't consider the Volvo XC70 - the 4x4 issues mine encountered are common on 100+k mile examples, and beyond economic repair. It's a design fault of Volvo's 4x4 system.

I've looked at the Legacy Outback, but at £6k+ it's wasted money for something that will do 1-2000 miles a year. And I'm not keen on the Forester, really - cheap interior, and suprisingly pricey for the 2002 versions - anly a bit cheaper than the Allroad, and I'd rather have the Audi.

A full on off-roader is an option - I thought of a £1.5k Cherokee, but figured that it's a pretty old beast and I'd spend too much time fixing it, especially if it's left for weeks on end in the open and not driven. Also, I want something that I would like to drive, and the Audi is a nice thing with a decent interior (parents have an old shape A6 as a hack).

So, anyone know anything of them? Or willing to suggest alternatives? I was thinking of the 2.5Tdi as it's cheaper to insure/run, and I don't really need the performance of the 2.7turbo...

Key points are: 4x4 with good ground clearance, nice place to be on long journeys, reliable, capable of being left for weeks on end in my drive without falling apart, and needful off absolute minimal attention apart from routine servicing. Fuel economy not really an issue, due to little use. I would prefer a diesel though, if pushed.

[Gruber]

I had a 51-plate Allroad a couple of years ago. 2.5TDI auto. Nice old thing. Solid, roomy and good looking, but... I wouldn't have another simply due to the significant risk of it emptying my wallet on a regular basis. Especially an old cheap one.

The air suspension, auto box and 2.5tdi engine are all potential candidates for a big bill. A cam belt change is a major operation. It ate tyres and wasn't very economical.

In my view, you'd be better off with a petrol Scooby Outback or a Jeep Cherokee. Neither of them is immune from problems, but much cheaper to sort out.

A quick search of the VW/Audi forum should pull up loads of info on the old Allroad.

[cptsideways]

Get a 2000 on Legacy Outback, nicer interior, suede seats,& all the toys, proper off road ability, trust me I tried! & I have a Landcruiser to comapre one too - job done.

Allroads are great cars but it will break down or suffer engine, gearbox or suspension failure or both. Volvo have a crap 4wd system when it does work.

[Harry Flashman]

The reason I asked about the allroad is that my Mum's T reg A6 2.5TDi Tiptronic is running like clockwork on 120k miles - but no quattro drive.

Thanls to the chap who used to own one, saying it ate tyres etc.

Advantage of a Cherokee I suppose is that I could actually go greenlaning in it if I wanted. It just seems a bit agricultural...especially for doing big distances in.

[Harry Flashman]

Gruber said:

I had a 51-plate Allroad a couple of years ago. 2.5TDI auto. Nice old thing. Solid, roomy and good looking, but... I wouldn't have another simply due to the significant risk of it emptying my wallet on a regular basis. Especially an old cheap one.

The air suspension, auto box and 2.5tdi engine are all potential candidates for a big bill. A cam belt change is a major operation. It ate tyres and wasn't very economical.

In my view, you'd be better off with a petrol Scooby Outback or a Jeep Cherokee. Neither of them is immune from problems, but much cheaper to sort out.

A quick search of the VW/Audi forum should pull up loads of info on the old Allroad.

Gruber - thanks. Did it actually give you any big bills? Did it require lots of attention? Details please!

[Gruber]

This looks good for the cash, especially with a new clutch and flywheel.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2461598.htm

[Gruber]

Harry Flashman said:

Gruber said:

I had a 51-plate Allroad a couple of years ago. 2.5TDI auto. Nice old thing. Solid, roomy and good looking, but... I wouldn't have another simply due to the significant risk of it emptying my wallet on a regular basis. Especially an old cheap one.

The air suspension, auto box and 2.5tdi engine are all potential candidates for a big bill. A cam belt change is a major operation. It ate tyres and wasn't very economical.

In my view, you'd be better off with a petrol Scooby Outback or a Jeep Cherokee. Neither of them is immune from problems, but much cheaper to sort out.

A quick search of the VW/Audi forum should pull up loads of info on the old Allroad.

Gruber - thanks. Did it actually give you any big bills? Did it require lots of attention? Details please!

Well it cost me an eye-watering amount to have the cambelt (and water pump and whatever else) done and the tyres changed.

And then the suspension started to show signs of trouble. Fortunately (for my wallet), my employers changed their car policy, which gave me the perfect excuse to p/ex it quick.

I saw it parked up in Belgravia a few months later, slumped down on its suspension and clearly in need of new bags or compressor or whatever. I counted that a lucky escape.

If you have a squizz on the VAG forum, I'm sure you'll find plenty of tales of woe on the 2.5tdi engine and the tiptronic (or whatever it's called) box, not to mention the fancy suspension.

[sawman]

Harry Flashman said:

Advantage of a Cherokee I suppose is that I could actually go greenlaning in it if I wanted. It just seems a bit agricultural...especially for doing big distances in.

Last week I drove from the midlands to Newcastle and back in the 2003 cherokee, this week did the same journey in 2002 forester, I was at least as comfortable in the jeep which returned 21mpg, the subaru did 31mpg. both were cruising at the legal limit and also stuck trundling in traffic in newcastle for an hour or so

[Gruber]

Harry Flashman said:

Advantage of a Cherokee I suppose is that I could actually go greenlaning in it if I wanted. It just seems a bit agricultural...especially for doing big distances in.

I've had a 4.0 petrol and a 2.5td Cherokee. Definitely go for the petrol if you're heading in the yankie direction. Much more refined than the diesel.

(Apologies for so many replies... I should try and consolidate...).

[Harry Flashman]

Gruber said:

This looks good for the cash, especially with a new clutch and flywheel.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2461598.htm

But just look at that interior. 400 miles to go shooting in that? No thank you.

Mind you, as am alternative to a £1500 Cherokee, absolutely! But I am thinking a bit more "upmarket" - hence the Allroad idea...

[cptsideways]

Harry Flashman said:

Gruber said:

This looks good for the cash, especially with a new clutch and flywheel.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2461598.htm

But just look at that interior. 400 miles to go shooting in that? No thank you.

Mind you, as am alternative to a £1500 Cherokee, absolutely! But I am thinking a bit more "upmarket" - hence the Allroad idea...

I'm sure that interior is far nicer than that of the RAC recovery truck after the Allroad has st itself 400 miles from home

The Legacy's though comparitively basic inside are very ergonomic, nice & comfy, plus are superb handling cars. We used to have one exactly the same as that, not sure why we got rid of it

[Harry Flashman]

Actually, this is looking rather less agricultural, and rather more tempting...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...

[Luke.]

The Outbacks from about 2003 are far, far nicer. Picked one up myself about 4 weeks ago. All the toys including touchscreen sat nav, heated leather electric seats and a double length sunroof. It's great.

[Harry Flashman]

cptsideways said:

I'm sure that interior is far nicer than that of the RAC recovery truck after the Allroad has st itself 400 miles from home

The Legacy's though comparitively basic inside are very ergonomic, nice & comfy, plus are superb handling cars. We used to have one exactly the same as that, not sure why we got rid of it

Hear you Captain - but everyone seems to be saying that the Allroad could go wrong. I'm curious as to whether there are any definite, they all do it sir, expensive problems with them. Like I said, my Ma's 2.5TDi A6 pack horse has happily soldiered for a decade and 120lk miles with nothing more than a MAF sensor...

[aberdeeneuan]

Harry Flashman said:

Actually, this is looking rather less agricultural, and rather more tempting...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...

R is the lowest spec model in the range, but still comes with some goodies.

That does look tempting though, good colour combination, looks a lot more expensive than it is!

[Harry Flashman]

Luke. said:

The Outbacks from about 2003 are far, far nicer. Picked one up myself about 4 weeks ago. All the toys including touchscreen sat nav, heated leather electric seats and a double length sunroof. It's great.

Luke - I know that you haven't had it long, but any tips on buying/looking for them, and projected running costs including servicing requirements?

Basically, if I can nick all your research, that would be great. This car is, I think, quality and ambience-wise, a genuine alternative to the Allroad. The older Outback is a bit too cheap and rubbish inside, regardless of its mechanical credentials.

My other car is a Morgan - awesome, but noisy, cramped and frankly a bit horrid on long journeys, especially with the complete lack of toys and aircon that does nothing to prevent you from being cooked by a hot V8 in front of you. So I want the shooting/town/load lugging hack to have all the toys and be relaxing when doing 400 miles and the occasional muddy field/track.

[Harry Flashman]

aberdeeneuan said:

R is the lowest spec model in the range, but still comes with some goodies.

As long as it is auto, has aircon/electric windows and a head unit that can take an aux from an ipod, that's all I need. Have my own TomTom, so Satnav really isn't a requirement.

What are the specs above R, and what did you get>? The car I posted seems to have everything - leather, aircon, screen etc etc.

[Luke.]

Harry Flashman said:

Luke - I know that you haven't had it long, but any tips on buying/looking for them, and projected running costs including servicing requirements?

Not a lot to offer really. I was all set to get an E46 330i Touring, took one for a test drive and was left completely underwhelmed. Saw this a few days later and bought it. Research didnt really come into it.

They are juicy on the petrol though, moreso than my Boxster. Which was a surprise. But apart from that love it. Handles brilliantly too and the boots massive and the seats a piece of piss to put down. Even like the gold colour and never thought Id say that.

There aren't many around though - in the spec I got (3.0Rn - the 'n' stands for nav with auto) there's less than a dozen or so for less than £7k.

I'll edit this if anything else springs to mind.

[B.J.W]

Harry, I have been browsing through the classifieds recently at Audi All-Roads. Looking for something that could double up as both a daily driver and a comfortable shooting hack. The poor MPG suprised me (not hugely different to my L200), but if you are looking for something comfortable and refined for motorway usage, they are a fair sight better than the equivalent 'agricultural 4x4' at that price.

One of the chaps on my shoot has one. Reckons they are perfectly adequate 'soft road', but ground clearance aint that great.

Appreciate that the interior of the Subaru doesn't float your boat, but I would recommend you try driving one. I bought Lady B.J.W an old Forester estate (during the season we'd argue over who got the keys to the Disco), and ended up using it a fair bit myself (she won the argument over who got the keys to the Disco). One of the most comfortable cars I have ever driven, and a plucky little so and so off road too (even on a set of very worn H/T's). No diesel option, but given the mileage you are likely to do I wouldn't see that as a problem.

The Subaru's are pretty much bullet proof to in terms of reliability. I thought I'd finally killed mine when I traded it in on the L200, but it appears that it has done a Steven Segal - because I keep getting speeding tickets sent to my address from South Yorkshre police.

[Harry Flashman]

Thanks boys - a post 2003 Outback is now on the list. As I said, unconcerned about spec or economy, as this is an occasional use beast. That said - what about road tax? is this going to hit the highest band? And servicing costs? Time to start doing some research of my own as well...