Railways - How do ours really compare to others?
Discussion
Whenever there is a thread on here about rail and underground services, there tends to be a lot of people condemning services in this country and lauding those in other countries.
I've just come back from three days in Brussels, using the trains every morning and evening rush hour. I was staggered as to just how utterly crap the service was. I didn't see a single service to or from anywhere depart or arrive on time, and when they did arrive, half the trains were covered head to foot in graffiti.
Similarly, I've experienced the metro in Paris and Madrid in the middle of the rush hour when it's every bit as bad as London, which makes me wonder if some of the people making the comparisons are comparing their morning crush on the Northern line with their off-peak meandering around Paris on a weekend break.
Is there any way of actually getting some form of objective comparison from somewhere? I'd be interested to know how our services really stack up.
I've just come back from three days in Brussels, using the trains every morning and evening rush hour. I was staggered as to just how utterly crap the service was. I didn't see a single service to or from anywhere depart or arrive on time, and when they did arrive, half the trains were covered head to foot in graffiti.
Similarly, I've experienced the metro in Paris and Madrid in the middle of the rush hour when it's every bit as bad as London, which makes me wonder if some of the people making the comparisons are comparing their morning crush on the Northern line with their off-peak meandering around Paris on a weekend break.
Is there any way of actually getting some form of objective comparison from somewhere? I'd be interested to know how our services really stack up.
Have always rated SNCF and Paris Metro, and TGV is about the most comfortable train I have taken long distance.
DB in Germany is comfortable and typically efficient.
Sorry to say, all UK train operators I experience regularly are shockingly awful. ATW is quick possibly the worst run service I have ever come across.
DB in Germany is comfortable and typically efficient.
Sorry to say, all UK train operators I experience regularly are shockingly awful. ATW is quick possibly the worst run service I have ever come across.
I don't use trains much for distance travel, but my last 3 journeys have had an axle catch fire, a 2 hr delay on a 4 hr journey due to ice on the overhead lines, and a missed connection leading to a 2 hr wait.
Feck, I going return to Liverpool on Monday
I found the Chinese trains good in the Shanghai area, except I got a little sure of myself, and rather than wait in the huge queue for the engrish speaking ticket booth I went to a chinese one.
I missunderstood the gesture the guy did for 'soft' as 'sleeper', said no, and ended up on seats like school benches along with bemused chinese workers, some with chickens. I think it was the equivalent of 'Steerage Class'!
Sussed the return journey, much more like a Voyager class, but tidier and quieter.
Feck, I going return to Liverpool on Monday
I found the Chinese trains good in the Shanghai area, except I got a little sure of myself, and rather than wait in the huge queue for the engrish speaking ticket booth I went to a chinese one.
I missunderstood the gesture the guy did for 'soft' as 'sleeper', said no, and ended up on seats like school benches along with bemused chinese workers, some with chickens. I think it was the equivalent of 'Steerage Class'!
Sussed the return journey, much more like a Voyager class, but tidier and quieter.
Try Thailand. Relatively new Sky Train takes you all over the city - easy, air conditioned, pleasant and picturesque access to the whole city (without being stuck underground in the dark, cold/hot)
They recently decided they wanted a Sky Train to run from the new airport straight to the centre of Bangkok - so they built it in a couple of years!
20 miles of elevated track - done, there . . . which is the same distance from Gatwick to the centre of London (10% difference)
In this country, if they wanted such a thing, they'd spend 3 years thinking about it, followed by years of delays and complaints and protesting, spend billions talking about it, and it'd end up costing 5 times as much as quoted, and probably wouldn't even work right.
They recently decided they wanted a Sky Train to run from the new airport straight to the centre of Bangkok - so they built it in a couple of years!
20 miles of elevated track - done, there . . . which is the same distance from Gatwick to the centre of London (10% difference)
In this country, if they wanted such a thing, they'd spend 3 years thinking about it, followed by years of delays and complaints and protesting, spend billions talking about it, and it'd end up costing 5 times as much as quoted, and probably wouldn't even work right.
I was in London over the weekend and the tube staff were excellent. Polite, helpful and keen to save me money too (I didn't realise my 10 year old still travelled for free). The state of the trains aren't great but Paris underground is a s
t tip, much more violent/crime ridden and you then have snotty Parisians to deal with.
Munich trains were top notch and within a few mins on time.
Hong Kong trains are superb. Clean, safe and unerringly punctual.
Don't know about anywhere else although I hear the trains in Perth are excellent too.
t tip, much more violent/crime ridden and you then have snotty Parisians to deal with.Munich trains were top notch and within a few mins on time.
Hong Kong trains are superb. Clean, safe and unerringly punctual.
Don't know about anywhere else although I hear the trains in Perth are excellent too.
The TGV may be lovely, but if you ever have the misfortune to get on a non express service in France you'll see another picture.
It was late October, and I needed to get from Besancon to Geneva to catch a flight. Because they hardly run any trains at all in France I had to leave at 5 in the morning, even though the flight was not for 6 or 7 hours. I had to get a local train to Lyon, and then change for the TGV to go back up to Geneva. The local service was on a twin carriage diesel train which was from the mid 50s. And the heater didn't work, so I nearly froze to death.
In this country this same sort of route would be served by a DMU probably 30 years newer, running on an hourly schedule.
It was late October, and I needed to get from Besancon to Geneva to catch a flight. Because they hardly run any trains at all in France I had to leave at 5 in the morning, even though the flight was not for 6 or 7 hours. I had to get a local train to Lyon, and then change for the TGV to go back up to Geneva. The local service was on a twin carriage diesel train which was from the mid 50s. And the heater didn't work, so I nearly froze to death.
In this country this same sort of route would be served by a DMU probably 30 years newer, running on an hourly schedule.
UK trains I've found to be disgusting,they stink of stale piss and are generally full of feral scum hitching a free ride from one st hole to another. They rarely run on time and I believe they should have emergency showers at the end of each journey to decontaminate the poor passengers unfortunate enough to travel on them.
French and German trains are generally very good, clean and punctual... although I do remember a full riot almost erupting because a train was to be delayed by 3 minutes in France
My father tells me that the Japanese trains (especially the Bullet) are incredible, although boarding and getting off can be risky as everyone rushes to the doors!
t hole to another. They rarely run on time and I believe they should have emergency showers at the end of each journey to decontaminate the poor passengers unfortunate enough to travel on them.French and German trains are generally very good, clean and punctual... although I do remember a full riot almost erupting because a train was to be delayed by 3 minutes in France
My father tells me that the Japanese trains (especially the Bullet) are incredible, although boarding and getting off can be risky as everyone rushes to the doors!
slipstream 1985 said:
amsterdam. amazing!
I'd ask what you were smoking but that would probably be redundant. 
Last time I was there I was staying near Schipol and took a taxi into town. I had to get up earlier than the rest of the party the next day so went to catch a train back to Schipol, and then get a connecting bus to the hotel.
There was a rail replacement bus service, I missed my connection, and had to spend an hour stood at a bus stop because I missed my bus. My pissed and stoned mates got back to the hotel before I did.
I haven't been to Japan yet, but in my experience trains are pretty similar across Europe, though ours do seems to be particularly filthy and the staff have an attitude problem I've not seen elsewhere.
In general, if you are going a long distance on a fast train they work pretty well, but any commuter service will be unpleasantly busy at peak times, and the local stopping services are worse than driving/cycling/walking/dragging yourself all the way with your front teeth.
The worst aspects of our own railways are not a bit of tardiness when it's sort-of-working; it's how badly they deal with it when it doesn't. And the cost at short notice makes my TVR look cheap!
In general, if you are going a long distance on a fast train they work pretty well, but any commuter service will be unpleasantly busy at peak times, and the local stopping services are worse than driving/cycling/walking/dragging yourself all the way with your front teeth.
The worst aspects of our own railways are not a bit of tardiness when it's sort-of-working; it's how badly they deal with it when it doesn't. And the cost at short notice makes my TVR look cheap!
pokethepope said:
For tube travel look to HK.
Airconditioned, large open stations/concourses, very punctual, carriages must be at least 50% wider than London, phones work (although some will consider this a negative).
Singapore is similar - costs me 92 cents for 4 stops/6kms to work in the morning. A/C and runs overground apart from the CBD. Very rarely shuts down, and I've not heard of it breaking in the 8 months I've been here. Airconditioned, large open stations/concourses, very punctual, carriages must be at least 50% wider than London, phones work (although some will consider this a negative).
On the other hand, travelling by train in Vietnam was an experience - they don't seem to look after the tracks ever, so you end up getting thrown out of your bunk bed, and you have to pay extra for a mattress....
I commuted about 175,000 miles in the UK, almost all of them a miserable soul destroying business, with boken AC in summer, and broken heating in winter, or even heating in mid summer. Sadly, London is stuck with it's underground, which is overpriced, unreliable, and smells!
munroman said:
I found the Chinese trains good in the Shanghai area, except I got a little sure of myself, and rather than wait in the huge queue for the engrish speaking ticket booth I went to a chinese one.
I missunderstood the gesture the guy did for 'soft' as 'sleeper', said no, and ended up on seats like school benches along with bemused chinese workers, some with chickens. I think it was the equivalent of 'Steerage Class'!
Sussed the return journey, much more like a Voyager class, but tidier and quieter.
.I missunderstood the gesture the guy did for 'soft' as 'sleeper', said no, and ended up on seats like school benches along with bemused chinese workers, some with chickens. I think it was the equivalent of 'Steerage Class'!
Sussed the return journey, much more like a Voyager class, but tidier and quieter.
I use Chinese trains regular, for both short trips of 2-3 hours, and longer trips for 48 hours.
I use both the standard trains with seat, hard sleeper, or the ultra comfortable soft sleeper.
Actually, yesterday I just returned from a 46 hour train trip from South China, back to Northern China.
The CRH China's high speed trains, are in a class of their own.
For comfort and being on time.
When the 'arrival timeboard' says arriving at 07:31 hours, be sure it will arrive at 07:31 hours.
They don't habg around in the station either, 1 minute, or 2 minutes, and there off again.
No sleepers on the high speed trains though, as they don't run through the night.
The standard trains, run at 120km/h for hour after hour, after hour.
In the 48 hours of trip, I think we stopped at about 10 stations max.
We do need to pull over, off the running lines, as some times, cargo trains (probably fresh fruit), and high speed trains get priority.
When we pull into a station to stop, all the new passengers are neatly lined up in rows, exactly where the train doors are going to be, when the train stops.
16 cars to a standard train.
No graffiti what - so - ever.
No breakdowns, in the utterly thousands upon thousands of miles I have traveled.
If your wanting to travel through China, then forget about flying, just take trains, and relax and enjoy.
'vette
Edited by uk_vette on Friday 25th February 04:36
Look at it this way.
I went to a wedding in East Germany (well, what was East Germany - so on that basis I was a bit nervous about using the trains) and to get home I needed to get a train from a small town to a medium town then to Berlin to get to the airport on time. All three trains arrived and departed within 1 minute of the time they were meant to - I got to the airport in plenty of time to catch my flight.
Now in the UK I'd have got the train the day before to be on the safe side to ensure I didn't miss my flight home...
I went to a wedding in East Germany (well, what was East Germany - so on that basis I was a bit nervous about using the trains) and to get home I needed to get a train from a small town to a medium town then to Berlin to get to the airport on time. All three trains arrived and departed within 1 minute of the time they were meant to - I got to the airport in plenty of time to catch my flight.
Now in the UK I'd have got the train the day before to be on the safe side to ensure I didn't miss my flight home...
Jasandjules said:
Look at it this way.
I went to a wedding in East Germany (well, what was East Germany - so on that basis I was a bit nervous about using the trains) and to get home I needed to get a train from a small town to a medium town then to Berlin to get to the airport on time. All three trains arrived and departed within 1 minute of the time they were meant to - I got to the airport in plenty of time to catch my flight.
Now in the UK I'd have got the train the day before to be on the safe side to ensure I didn't miss my flight home...
That's rather my point though. Everyone can remember a particularly good experience, and nobody forgets a particularly bad one, but it's difficult to really make a comparison, as very few people have long-term, averaged-out experiences to compare.I went to a wedding in East Germany (well, what was East Germany - so on that basis I was a bit nervous about using the trains) and to get home I needed to get a train from a small town to a medium town then to Berlin to get to the airport on time. All three trains arrived and departed within 1 minute of the time they were meant to - I got to the airport in plenty of time to catch my flight.
Now in the UK I'd have got the train the day before to be on the safe side to ensure I didn't miss my flight home...
I know, for example, that on South West Trains going to and from work, I will get a seat on at least 95% of the trains I use, and whilst I might have a delayed train maybe once every week or two, a delay of more than 5 minutes is a real rarity. In Belgium, a train delayed by less than 5 minutes seems to be the rarity
It may be that there was a perfectly good explanation for the spectacularly crap performance of the Belgian railways over the last three days that I am unaware of, however. I don't therefore know for sure whether my criticism is fair?
Kermit power said:
I know, for example, that on South West Trains going to and from work, I will get a seat on at least 95% of the trains I use, and whilst I might have a delayed train maybe once every day or two, a delay of more than 105 minutes is a real rarity.
EFA based on 4 years on Stupid wky Trains as I lovingly refer to them as.The Europeans tend to be a bit cleverer with the timetables, particularly the Swiss.
In Switzerland, trains always appear to depart on time because they are often stood at the station platform for 2,3 or 4 minutes, giving time between each stop to cope with minor delays etc.
Typically we are less generous in our timetabling and timings therefore appearing to have more late trains as some minor delay has accumulated through the journey.
If a train on a particular journey always arrives a few minutes late, then why the timetable has not be eased and had sufficient minutes added to it over time to eradicate the delay, and at least give the passenger the true arrival time I don't know.
The fast trains through Spain (Madrid/Barcelona to Seville etc built for the Expo specifically) are excellent too.
In Switzerland, trains always appear to depart on time because they are often stood at the station platform for 2,3 or 4 minutes, giving time between each stop to cope with minor delays etc.
Typically we are less generous in our timetabling and timings therefore appearing to have more late trains as some minor delay has accumulated through the journey.
If a train on a particular journey always arrives a few minutes late, then why the timetable has not be eased and had sufficient minutes added to it over time to eradicate the delay, and at least give the passenger the true arrival time I don't know.
The fast trains through Spain (Madrid/Barcelona to Seville etc built for the Expo specifically) are excellent too.
tubbystu said:
Typically we are less generous in our timetabling and timings therefore appearing to have more late trains as some minor delay has accumulated through the journey.
If a train on a particular journey always arrives a few minutes late, then why the timetable has not be eased and had sufficient minutes added to it over time to eradicate the delay, and at least give the passenger the true arrival time I don't know.
SWT did this as they were outside of tolerance, so rather than make the trains cover 110 miles in under 2 hours with 4 stops, they made the train leave earlier and arrive later. To the extent that the Weymouth-Waterloo journey is now slower than it was by steam train.If a train on a particular journey always arrives a few minutes late, then why the timetable has not be eased and had sufficient minutes added to it over time to eradicate the delay, and at least give the passenger the true arrival time I don't know.
A lex said:
The major difference is that I can walk in to my local station and buy an inter-city ticket on the concourse to Amsterdam and itll cost me about €25 - I could probably 1/2 that if booked in advance. A similar distance in the UK would be Leeds-London
And I bet you tell all the ladies that that's 8 inches, don't you! 
A quick look on google maps would suggest that London to Leeds in a straight line is roughly 170 miles, whereas the only things 170 miles from Amsterdam in a straight line are France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, England and Norfolk!
I went on the TGV last year from Paris to Dijon and was very impressed with it. Also used the Swiss Railways and they were very good. Only had one late train out of all the ones I used. The trains were clean, plenty of seats and the staff very friendly and all spoke English. I'm going by Eurostar and TGV next month to Lyon because I prefer not to fly and I enjoy using the trains. The only part of the trip I'm not looking forward to is using the trains in this country.
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