What has happened to the Lee Noble supporters?
Discussion
As a regular browser on here there seems to have been a shift in the loyal support that Lee used to have. Lots of people seem to be very keen on the new M600 and the company nowadays. Lee has been very quiet re his new car and has recently stuck his neck out slagging off the M600. Does anybody actually know what is happening with his new car and if his company Fenix Automotive is still a viable product?
As an outsider it sems such a shame that Lee left on bad terms and has not got anything to show at this moment of time and some on here are quite vocal now in putting him down, I hope he does come through and build the car that he says he will at the price he promised. Yes the new M600 looks better finished now but I still stick by my original opinion that it will not sell is way too dear and cannot compete with the likes of Ferrari and Mclaren no matter how fast it is.
The proof will be in the pudding when someone not connected with the company actually shells out £200k and reports hopefully on here how good/bad it really is. If the car blows its engine or has lots of faults or even water ingress the company and the car are doomed it cannot afford to be anything other than brilliant at that price against those competitors. The new Mclaren is now the benchmark of 2 seater sports cars in that price range, the development the money the know how and technical expertise that Mclaren have at their disposal is as good as it gets and the car shows it. I very much doubt a car that has all the names on its sills of everybody that built and developed it can compete! Mark my words and I have no axe to grind whatsoever the M600 will not make a profit for the company and will soon be a part of the cottage British car industry's history like so many others.
As an outsider it sems such a shame that Lee left on bad terms and has not got anything to show at this moment of time and some on here are quite vocal now in putting him down, I hope he does come through and build the car that he says he will at the price he promised. Yes the new M600 looks better finished now but I still stick by my original opinion that it will not sell is way too dear and cannot compete with the likes of Ferrari and Mclaren no matter how fast it is.
The proof will be in the pudding when someone not connected with the company actually shells out £200k and reports hopefully on here how good/bad it really is. If the car blows its engine or has lots of faults or even water ingress the company and the car are doomed it cannot afford to be anything other than brilliant at that price against those competitors. The new Mclaren is now the benchmark of 2 seater sports cars in that price range, the development the money the know how and technical expertise that Mclaren have at their disposal is as good as it gets and the car shows it. I very much doubt a car that has all the names on its sills of everybody that built and developed it can compete! Mark my words and I have no axe to grind whatsoever the M600 will not make a profit for the company and will soon be a part of the cottage British car industry's history like so many others.
barefoot said:
As a regular browser on here there seems to have been a shift in the loyal support that Lee used to have. Lots of people seem to be very keen on the new M600 and the company nowadays. Lee has been very quiet re his new car and has recently stuck his neck out slagging off the M600. Does anybody actually know what is happening with his new car and if his company Fenix Automotive is still a viable product?
As an outsider it sems such a shame that Lee left on bad terms and has not got anything to show at this moment of time and some on here are quite vocal now in putting him down, I hope he does come through and build the car that he says he will at the price he promised. Yes the new M600 looks better finished now but I still stick by my original opinion that it will not sell is way too dear and cannot compete with the likes of Ferrari and Mclaren no matter how fast it is.
The proof will be in the pudding when someone not connected with the company actually shells out £200k and reports hopefully on here how good/bad it really is. If the car blows its engine or has lots of faults or even water ingress the company and the car are doomed it cannot afford to be anything other than brilliant at that price against those competitors. The new Mclaren is now the benchmark of 2 seater sports cars in that price range, the development the money the know how and technical expertise that Mclaren have at their disposal is as good as it gets and the car shows it. I very much doubt a car that has all the names on its sills of everybody that built and developed it can compete! Mark my words and I have no axe to grind whatsoever the M600 will not make a profit for the company and will soon be a part of the cottage British car industry's history like so many others.
Tell me have you actualy seen the M600 in the flesh ??? As an outsider it sems such a shame that Lee left on bad terms and has not got anything to show at this moment of time and some on here are quite vocal now in putting him down, I hope he does come through and build the car that he says he will at the price he promised. Yes the new M600 looks better finished now but I still stick by my original opinion that it will not sell is way too dear and cannot compete with the likes of Ferrari and Mclaren no matter how fast it is.
The proof will be in the pudding when someone not connected with the company actually shells out £200k and reports hopefully on here how good/bad it really is. If the car blows its engine or has lots of faults or even water ingress the company and the car are doomed it cannot afford to be anything other than brilliant at that price against those competitors. The new Mclaren is now the benchmark of 2 seater sports cars in that price range, the development the money the know how and technical expertise that Mclaren have at their disposal is as good as it gets and the car shows it. I very much doubt a car that has all the names on its sills of everybody that built and developed it can compete! Mark my words and I have no axe to grind whatsoever the M600 will not make a profit for the company and will soon be a part of the cottage British car industry's history like so many others.
Bit of both but could not fit all that in my topic heading! Why do I need to see or drive the m600 its gonna be fast as anything out there for def and looks great but tell me this has anyone driven one for a thousand miles or more bar the company employers? Has anyone any proof that it is reliable over a period of time?
If they catch fire will a new one be forthcoming or an engine blows what sort of timescale for a new one fitted ? What I am trying to point out is what sort of guarantee comes with this 200k car who guarantees it if the company does not sell as many as they predict and becomes insolvent? I would hate to guess a used price on one of these if that were to happen and believe me in this economic climate that could happen.
It needs a very brave and rich person to buy one new instead of one of the opposition and they need to find quite a few brave rich people to keep trading.
If they catch fire will a new one be forthcoming or an engine blows what sort of timescale for a new one fitted ? What I am trying to point out is what sort of guarantee comes with this 200k car who guarantees it if the company does not sell as many as they predict and becomes insolvent? I would hate to guess a used price on one of these if that were to happen and believe me in this economic climate that could happen.
It needs a very brave and rich person to buy one new instead of one of the opposition and they need to find quite a few brave rich people to keep trading.
Perhaps before you start slagging of the company and the car you should take the time to visit and have alook at the car and have a chat with the management !!! Probably would give you a more balanced view , quite how you have come to your opinion is beyond me bearing in mind you know bugger all about Noble automotive !!!!
TuxMan
I am giving an opinion which I think is valid and the statistics/history of small British car manufacturers seem to support my views. You obviously have seen the car driven the car spoke to the management, are you buying one? Do you know if the car will be reliable have they had any recent problems with the cars development that you know off or has the management kept everything quiet? Do you believe that the car is a viable alternative to the Mclaren and 458? Do you think the car will sell well and hold its value as well as the others? Do you think the company will have as good a chance as Mclaren and Ferrari in staying solvent for the next few years to honour the warranty?
I personally dont that is why I think it needs a brave wealthy person to buy one. If the car was £130k therefore undercutting the opposition then yes sales would have a better chance but being dearer and with a new small company that has never built a car before of any description I think you will find that a lot of people feel the same as me. Good luck to them I honestly wish them well but in todays market against 2 new cars that have raised the bar for niche 2 seater sports cars I think Noble could not have picked a worse time to sell their car. I hope there are buyers out there that have your enthuisiasm for the product and a large bank balance!
I am giving an opinion which I think is valid and the statistics/history of small British car manufacturers seem to support my views. You obviously have seen the car driven the car spoke to the management, are you buying one? Do you know if the car will be reliable have they had any recent problems with the cars development that you know off or has the management kept everything quiet? Do you believe that the car is a viable alternative to the Mclaren and 458? Do you think the car will sell well and hold its value as well as the others? Do you think the company will have as good a chance as Mclaren and Ferrari in staying solvent for the next few years to honour the warranty?
I personally dont that is why I think it needs a brave wealthy person to buy one. If the car was £130k therefore undercutting the opposition then yes sales would have a better chance but being dearer and with a new small company that has never built a car before of any description I think you will find that a lot of people feel the same as me. Good luck to them I honestly wish them well but in todays market against 2 new cars that have raised the bar for niche 2 seater sports cars I think Noble could not have picked a worse time to sell their car. I hope there are buyers out there that have your enthuisiasm for the product and a large bank balance!
The devil said:
Eh?
I think he means "comparable to the M600". The M12/400 were good, but carried a (somewhat justifiably) "kit car" label. Supply/demand is I think whats missing in the argument, ie from what I understand, M600 sales forecasts are pitched very low compared to the other cars mentioned. BUT, I think Barefoot has a point in that brand loyalty may not be strong enough to carry even a few sales if the package is lacking. That's a fair viewpoint, and this is just a forum, so let's not bicker over mere speculation! Personally, I'd love one (heart) but probably wouldn't (head) so there's a bit of objective opinion for you!
Gadgeroonie said:
watch the sales rocket when they get one back on Top Gear with the lighter carbon fibre body and more power
they will sell more than you might think
Ye it will sell loads if they change the styling to that photoshop i did for them they will sell more than you might think
I think barefoot has made a fair point with regards to its place in the market. It's 50k more than a 458 and that is pretty much an enzo for 150k, but if the M600 sells tons then i will be very pleased for them but only time will tell.
I think being a Lee Noble fan and whether somebody likes or dislikes the M600 is irrelevant though, i want Lee to produce a new car and i also want Noble to carry on representing the brand name and to be successfull, after all Noble are still providing support and parts for the M12 and the customer service is very good.
Edited by R0162 on Sunday 27th February 21:21
watch the sales rocket when they get one back on Top Gear with the lighter carbon fibre body and more power they will sell more than you might think
You think the sales will rocket if they do? What will happen to sales if the engine goes tits up or it breaks down or something doesnt work or Clarkson mentions the 30 mph crash test? As well as it going like stink and maybe setting a new production car record round the track it just might do one of the former. I seriously would hope it sets new records and is a hit but I also get the feeling its price and its heritage will come into question and unfortunately its reliability.
Top Gear never pulled any punches with TVR even though Clarkson was friendly with Wheeler and what’s the betting if they ever do test the car some sort of comparison is made between the 2 companies. There are quite a few people on Pistonheads wealthy enough to buy an M600 does anyone know any who are going to? Does anyone know how many have been sold to private individuals as yet or about to be or is the car still being "fettled"?
That will be the true yardstick of the cars ability when someone has owned one and put a few miles on it we can all speculate but the proof of the pudding is in the eating and don’t forget the old adage 1 happy person tells 10 people one unhappy person tells 50! Anyone spending £200k on a new car will be expecting it to hardly miss a beat. I hope when they do eventually get "sales that rocket" the car is a winner. It is not easy being a very small company right now bringing out a very expensive product, just think if several of the new cars set on fire like the 458 did that would be the end of Noble for sure yet it has not harmed Ferrari sales one jot! People will forgive a company like Ferrari because of its heritage its name etc etc but when something silly like steamed up windows and a damp smell that most TVR's and Nobles had in the past will not be tolerated in the M600 they really do have to get it right 1st time as there will be no 2nd chances at £200k.
Sorry to be such a pessimist but I really do not think Noble Automotive will be around in a year or two making £200k cars it’s bad enough trying to sell a £200k house at the moment and it is not going to get any better any time soon!
You think the sales will rocket if they do? What will happen to sales if the engine goes tits up or it breaks down or something doesnt work or Clarkson mentions the 30 mph crash test? As well as it going like stink and maybe setting a new production car record round the track it just might do one of the former. I seriously would hope it sets new records and is a hit but I also get the feeling its price and its heritage will come into question and unfortunately its reliability.
Top Gear never pulled any punches with TVR even though Clarkson was friendly with Wheeler and what’s the betting if they ever do test the car some sort of comparison is made between the 2 companies. There are quite a few people on Pistonheads wealthy enough to buy an M600 does anyone know any who are going to? Does anyone know how many have been sold to private individuals as yet or about to be or is the car still being "fettled"?
That will be the true yardstick of the cars ability when someone has owned one and put a few miles on it we can all speculate but the proof of the pudding is in the eating and don’t forget the old adage 1 happy person tells 10 people one unhappy person tells 50! Anyone spending £200k on a new car will be expecting it to hardly miss a beat. I hope when they do eventually get "sales that rocket" the car is a winner. It is not easy being a very small company right now bringing out a very expensive product, just think if several of the new cars set on fire like the 458 did that would be the end of Noble for sure yet it has not harmed Ferrari sales one jot! People will forgive a company like Ferrari because of its heritage its name etc etc but when something silly like steamed up windows and a damp smell that most TVR's and Nobles had in the past will not be tolerated in the M600 they really do have to get it right 1st time as there will be no 2nd chances at £200k.
Sorry to be such a pessimist but I really do not think Noble Automotive will be around in a year or two making £200k cars it’s bad enough trying to sell a £200k house at the moment and it is not going to get any better any time soon!
Edited by barefoot on Sunday 27th February 22:23
Dear Pessimist,
Well actually I wouldn't blame Noble (pre or post Lee) if some of their cars caught fire. My M12 blew its engine up after 3,000 miles from oil starvation, as a result a coupe of weeks later Lee issued the infamous track day warning and set about developing the track day sump. I put it down to unforseen outcomes and was pleased to get a new engine.
I would blame Ferrari if their new cars started catching fire (sic) precisely because they are a mega billion operation and have a massive development budget as well as the power to control the press whereas Noble are not, they can only ever be judged by their product. People who spend £200K on an M600 are going to be savy enough to know what they will be getting is a bespoke small scale product. The original M600 looked in my eye to be a bit too small scale but the new carbon bodied one is a leap forward.
Well done. Lets continue to praise where its due and not look for every opportunity to knock the poor buggers.
Regards
Paul C
Well actually I wouldn't blame Noble (pre or post Lee) if some of their cars caught fire. My M12 blew its engine up after 3,000 miles from oil starvation, as a result a coupe of weeks later Lee issued the infamous track day warning and set about developing the track day sump. I put it down to unforseen outcomes and was pleased to get a new engine.
I would blame Ferrari if their new cars started catching fire (sic) precisely because they are a mega billion operation and have a massive development budget as well as the power to control the press whereas Noble are not, they can only ever be judged by their product. People who spend £200K on an M600 are going to be savy enough to know what they will be getting is a bespoke small scale product. The original M600 looked in my eye to be a bit too small scale but the new carbon bodied one is a leap forward.
Well done. Lets continue to praise where its due and not look for every opportunity to knock the poor buggers.
Regards
Paul C
paulcundy said:
Dear Pessimist,
Well actually I wouldn't blame Noble (pre or post Lee) if some of their cars caught fire. My M12 blew its engine up after 3,000 miles from oil starvation, as a result a coupe of weeks later Lee issued the infamous track day warning and set about developing the track day sump. I put it down to unforseen outcomes and was pleased to get a new engine.
I would blame Ferrari if their new cars started catching fire (sic) precisely because they are a mega billion operation and have a massive development budget as well as the power to control the press whereas Noble are not, they can only ever be judged by their product. People who spend £200K on an M600 are going to be savy enough to know what they will be getting is a bespoke small scale product. The original M600 looked in my eye to be a bit too small scale but the new carbon bodied one is a leap forward.
Well done. Lets continue to praise where its due and not look for every opportunity to knock the poor buggers.
Regards
Paul C
Agreed 110 % Well actually I wouldn't blame Noble (pre or post Lee) if some of their cars caught fire. My M12 blew its engine up after 3,000 miles from oil starvation, as a result a coupe of weeks later Lee issued the infamous track day warning and set about developing the track day sump. I put it down to unforseen outcomes and was pleased to get a new engine.
I would blame Ferrari if their new cars started catching fire (sic) precisely because they are a mega billion operation and have a massive development budget as well as the power to control the press whereas Noble are not, they can only ever be judged by their product. People who spend £200K on an M600 are going to be savy enough to know what they will be getting is a bespoke small scale product. The original M600 looked in my eye to be a bit too small scale but the new carbon bodied one is a leap forward.
Well done. Lets continue to praise where its due and not look for every opportunity to knock the poor buggers.
Regards
Paul C
Paul
You miss my point re the fires of course they should not happen to any new car let alone a major one like Ferrari. I had 8 new TVR's with loads of problems that I put down to "savvy" and well its a TVR syndrome just as you have with your Noble. Like the Noble you have/had the later ones cost around £45k not £200k. Trust me if a few of the new Nobles catch fire unlike the 458 it will kill sales stone dead! And if you think new owners are spending over £200k and will be willing to put up with teething problems that can be anything up to and including the engine going pop I think you are mistaken. Anything major that goes wrong with the cars will be big news and we will get to hear about it on here for sure but unlike a Porsche engine letting go, as many have, Noble is not big enough to withstand such a dilemna they have no track record whatsoever in cars of this price but they do like TVR have a track record for building unreliable cars as we all know even if that was under Lee.
Yes I have stuck my neck out and been quite vocal about the new Noble now and in the past but nobody on here answers any of my questions re how many real sales or knowing anyone who is buying one. How many people outside the factory and the press have actually driven one and what is the score on the engine problems and crash data Lee brought up? I know of several people who are buying the Mclaren in fact there is one local to me belonging to a guy I know, 458 sales are as buoyant as ever when will we see a member of Joe public with a new M600?
You miss my point re the fires of course they should not happen to any new car let alone a major one like Ferrari. I had 8 new TVR's with loads of problems that I put down to "savvy" and well its a TVR syndrome just as you have with your Noble. Like the Noble you have/had the later ones cost around £45k not £200k. Trust me if a few of the new Nobles catch fire unlike the 458 it will kill sales stone dead! And if you think new owners are spending over £200k and will be willing to put up with teething problems that can be anything up to and including the engine going pop I think you are mistaken. Anything major that goes wrong with the cars will be big news and we will get to hear about it on here for sure but unlike a Porsche engine letting go, as many have, Noble is not big enough to withstand such a dilemna they have no track record whatsoever in cars of this price but they do like TVR have a track record for building unreliable cars as we all know even if that was under Lee.
Yes I have stuck my neck out and been quite vocal about the new Noble now and in the past but nobody on here answers any of my questions re how many real sales or knowing anyone who is buying one. How many people outside the factory and the press have actually driven one and what is the score on the engine problems and crash data Lee brought up? I know of several people who are buying the Mclaren in fact there is one local to me belonging to a guy I know, 458 sales are as buoyant as ever when will we see a member of Joe public with a new M600?
barefoot said:
Yes I have stuck my neck out and been quite vocal about the new Noble now and in the past but nobody on here answers any of my questions re how many real sales or knowing anyone who is buying one. How many people outside the factory and the press have actually driven one and what is the score on the engine problems and crash data Lee brought up? I know of several people who are buying the Mclaren in fact there is one local to me belonging to a guy I know, 458 sales are as buoyant as ever when will we see a member of Joe public with a new M600?
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