Tumble Generator...help please!
Discussion
Ok.....bit of a long story.
Last October, jumped in my bug eyed 2001 wagon, noticed the idle was all over the place and engine management light permanently illuminated. Contacted the main dealer and they said it could be one of two things - clogged up throttle housing or air control valve. Obviously we asked for the throttle housing to be cleaned first, which was a cheaper option and it's apparently unusual for the idle control valve to go. So the car went in asap, had the throttle housing cleaned and this initially seemed to be successful. The light no longer illuminated, however a couple of weeks later the light came back on.
Anyway, just to complicate things even more, the gearbox went pop, before it went in for work on the idle control valve! Sourced our own refurbished gearbox and brand new clutch, and also renewed the idle control valve. Finally got the car back last week, but the engine management light is still on. The diagnostics indicated a tumble generator fault.
I've had a price for the part alone and it's nearly £500. After having spent a huge amount of money on the gearbox/clutch/idle control valve, I want to get some opinions on whether this is definitely what's causing the engine management light to stay on, and whether this fault could have been caused by the garage, when taking the old gearbox and gubbins out, and fitting new one.
The car is due to go back to the dealer next week for an inspection, to hopefully confirm one way or the other as to what the fault is.
Really starting to lose a bit of faith in my Scooby
I must add, up until these problems occurred the car has been absolutely faultless.
Cheers
Last October, jumped in my bug eyed 2001 wagon, noticed the idle was all over the place and engine management light permanently illuminated. Contacted the main dealer and they said it could be one of two things - clogged up throttle housing or air control valve. Obviously we asked for the throttle housing to be cleaned first, which was a cheaper option and it's apparently unusual for the idle control valve to go. So the car went in asap, had the throttle housing cleaned and this initially seemed to be successful. The light no longer illuminated, however a couple of weeks later the light came back on.
Anyway, just to complicate things even more, the gearbox went pop, before it went in for work on the idle control valve! Sourced our own refurbished gearbox and brand new clutch, and also renewed the idle control valve. Finally got the car back last week, but the engine management light is still on. The diagnostics indicated a tumble generator fault.
I've had a price for the part alone and it's nearly £500. After having spent a huge amount of money on the gearbox/clutch/idle control valve, I want to get some opinions on whether this is definitely what's causing the engine management light to stay on, and whether this fault could have been caused by the garage, when taking the old gearbox and gubbins out, and fitting new one.
The car is due to go back to the dealer next week for an inspection, to hopefully confirm one way or the other as to what the fault is.
Really starting to lose a bit of faith in my Scooby
I must add, up until these problems occurred the car has been absolutely faultless.
Cheers
The TGV's are nothing but a PITA, STi's thankfully don't have them.
It may well be that you just need a new TGV stepper motor (There are two, one on the left bank at the back and one on the right bank at the front) in which case you can pick one up 2nd hand. You need to diagnose with the aid of a specialist which one it is. They can just plug in and know straight away which one it is. Could be the a TGV butterfly or the shaft is damaged and sticking in which case they would need to be removed, hand profiled/finished and refitted. Really you need to see a specialist, not a Subaru dealer.
IMHO the best thing you can do here is either have the TGV's removed and then the car remapped to take advantage of the modification if TGV's really are the problem, along with any other mods you might be thinking of doing before a remap (exhaust mods, air filter, Snorkus delete, fuel pump etc...), or just fit an STi inlet manifold which comes without the TGV's in which case any TGV CEL's (Error Codes(DTC's) can be switched off within the mapping so they don't come on again.
STi manifold is the easiest fit option, straightforward swap over and will cure your running issues after remap. You should be able to pick up a manifold and the spacer it comes with fairly inexpensively (£150-£200).
Don't take notice of what a Subaru dealer tells you on pricing because it's always way over the top, and they live in cloud cuckoo land anyway. I'll give you an example....An STi 90deg elbow that connects the intercooler to the turbo outlet, 3yrs ago was £150!! The same part but as a good quality aftermarket silicon hose equivalent is less than £20!! Go figure!!
It may well be that you just need a new TGV stepper motor (There are two, one on the left bank at the back and one on the right bank at the front) in which case you can pick one up 2nd hand. You need to diagnose with the aid of a specialist which one it is. They can just plug in and know straight away which one it is. Could be the a TGV butterfly or the shaft is damaged and sticking in which case they would need to be removed, hand profiled/finished and refitted. Really you need to see a specialist, not a Subaru dealer.
IMHO the best thing you can do here is either have the TGV's removed and then the car remapped to take advantage of the modification if TGV's really are the problem, along with any other mods you might be thinking of doing before a remap (exhaust mods, air filter, Snorkus delete, fuel pump etc...), or just fit an STi inlet manifold which comes without the TGV's in which case any TGV CEL's (Error Codes(DTC's) can be switched off within the mapping so they don't come on again.
STi manifold is the easiest fit option, straightforward swap over and will cure your running issues after remap. You should be able to pick up a manifold and the spacer it comes with fairly inexpensively (£150-£200).
Don't take notice of what a Subaru dealer tells you on pricing because it's always way over the top, and they live in cloud cuckoo land anyway. I'll give you an example....An STi 90deg elbow that connects the intercooler to the turbo outlet, 3yrs ago was £150!! The same part but as a good quality aftermarket silicon hose equivalent is less than £20!! Go figure!!
My STI has suffered from the same problem for a little while (I belive they introduced the TGV on the 06 STI). Not long after I bought the car the Engine management light came on and as it was due a service popped it to a Subaru dealer for a once over. Fault codes came back as TGV's and was told at the time that I could see how it goes and if it comes back on they would need replacing at a cost of around £1800 for both TGV's and labour!!!!
After having the fault cleared car ran fine for 6 months whilst being used on a daily basis. Went away for a couple of weeks on holiday and on return light came on after a day or so of driving and was lumpy under acceleration. This time popped to a local specialist who diagnosed the same thing and I was informed that it was quite common on the 06 hawkeye STI for the TGV's to stick. There is a kit which you can buy that blanks these out and local specialist said they could fit it for £250 + cost of the kit which I believe was around £150 which is a damn site better than the £1800 originally quoted by the dealer and to remove the problem from happening again! Have managed to stay away from paying a penny so far as so long as the car is used frequently and given a 'Spirited' drive regularly the valves dont stick and the light stays off.
As ScoobieWRX has already mentioned may aswell get them removed, and remove the problem from the equation and from any future issues if they are causing you a headache.
Butch.
After having the fault cleared car ran fine for 6 months whilst being used on a daily basis. Went away for a couple of weeks on holiday and on return light came on after a day or so of driving and was lumpy under acceleration. This time popped to a local specialist who diagnosed the same thing and I was informed that it was quite common on the 06 hawkeye STI for the TGV's to stick. There is a kit which you can buy that blanks these out and local specialist said they could fit it for £250 + cost of the kit which I believe was around £150 which is a damn site better than the £1800 originally quoted by the dealer and to remove the problem from happening again! Have managed to stay away from paying a penny so far as so long as the car is used frequently and given a 'Spirited' drive regularly the valves dont stick and the light stays off.
As ScoobieWRX has already mentioned may aswell get them removed, and remove the problem from the equation and from any future issues if they are causing you a headache.
Butch.
Thankfully i drive a 2.0Ltr but swapped the old WRX engine for an STi lump so no TGV's. It is a shame about the 2.5's having them reintroduced and they are only there for emissions purposes during cold start so basically useless. However, if you drive a 2.5 and have the money pop a set of these on
Very nice!!
Very nice!!
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Friday 4th March 14:25
Thanks for the replies guys.
We haven't got access to a specialist dealer without a boat trip and long journey, so are pretty stuck with the main dealer. The car actually runs fine, and we are taking it away in a month's time for a blast to the French Alpes. If we decided not to do anything, would the car still be OK?
We will find out more when the car goes in for an inspection next week.
We haven't got access to a specialist dealer without a boat trip and long journey, so are pretty stuck with the main dealer. The car actually runs fine, and we are taking it away in a month's time for a blast to the French Alpes. If we decided not to do anything, would the car still be OK?
We will find out more when the car goes in for an inspection next week.
mcelliott said:
Thanks for the replies guys.
We haven't got access to a specialist dealer without a boat trip and long journey, so are pretty stuck with the main dealer. The car actually runs fine, and we are taking it away in a month's time for a blast to the French Alpes. If we decided not to do anything, would the car still be OK?
We will find out more when the car goes in for an inspection next week.
A shame there is no specialist a little closer to you. If the issue does lie with the TGV then depending on what is actually up with them (sticking valve, dodgy sensors etc) it may or may not affect the performance. As mine had a tendency to stick they do not open properly once warmed up so restricts the power and was occasionally really lumpy under load until the valve would free itself up, ECU has a bit of a tantrum when that happens so ends up in a sort of 'limp' mode until the fault is cleared. I am by no means an expert on this though just sharing personal experience so fingers crossed yours can be sorted easily and you get to enjoy your trip to the alps We haven't got access to a specialist dealer without a boat trip and long journey, so are pretty stuck with the main dealer. The car actually runs fine, and we are taking it away in a month's time for a blast to the French Alpes. If we decided not to do anything, would the car still be OK?
We will find out more when the car goes in for an inspection next week.
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