Help with Swimming Pool

[flyingjase]

I know that there are a few people on here with pools, and I wondered whether you could give some guidance on types of construction / heating / covers etc.

We are looking at getting a pool but it's a minefield out there with so many variations and different sales guys giving you different stories.

So, this is what we are looking at:-

12x x 6m
Air source heat pump (maybe ground source as we want to use it all year round) - any ideas on what spec you need?
Slatted cover
Cyclone filter
Oxygenated cleaner
Welded commercial liner

Is there anything else I should be looking out for / asking about?

Any tips on saving money?

Thanks

[caziques]

Just looking at a "floatron" for sanitation - looks better than saltwater or ozone.

Heat pump, air source is much easier and cheaper - despite what you might think swimming in an outdoor pool in freezing weather is not pleasant - the extra benefit of ground source is outweighed by the fact it will cost more to run in summer (when the air is warmer than the ground).

Cover is essential.

My pool is fibreglass, absolutely no problems despite a few recent earthquakes! In the first quake we lost a foot of water - no damage to pool lining.

Sand filter has lasted ten years so far.

[ColinM50]

Had a pool installed in my house in France and then bought a proper cover, not one of the roller ones. I bought a telescopic enclosure one that you can swim inside and have to say I'd not consider a pool without that type of cover.

Not only does it keep leaves and crap off it, but on those days when the weather's less than perfect, you just open the door, jump in the pool and close the door after you. The air temperature inside the encloure is always 10-15 degrees better than ambient and the pool is just so much more useable and it extends your swimming season.

Irrespective of how, or if you heat your pool without a good encloure you'll not get the benefit of having it.

I had one of these but not quite as big, mine was about 2 feet high at the shallow end then eash section is a bit higher of course.

http://www.eureka-poolcovers.co.uk/

http://www.aquaflex.co.uk/159/Abrisud_Pool_Enclosu...

Not cheap but well worth it

[Le TVR]

For the heat pump, it depends on water volume and typical air temperature. 12x6 will be a minimum of 100 m3 up to 130 if you have a deeper diving end. So you'll be looking for around 20kW of heating.
Check the spec of the heat pump for the temperature differential that will give you 20kW and thats the size you should be aiming for.

Something like an Aquacal Heatwave H120?

[JM]

For a heat pump, you need to know the surface area and the months of the year you want to use it.

E.g just July and Aug, or May - Sept, or March to Nov etc.

[cuneus]

Get a robot cleaner

Good quality solar cover (a lot of heat lost by evaporation)

You don't say whether indoor or outdoor ?

[flyingjase]

Thanks for the responses

Floatron looks interesting.

To clarify, it will be an outdoor pool and the Mrs wants to use it all year round, although I suspect the reality will be April - October.

Current thoughts a slatted solar cover with electronic motor to act as a an insulator and safety cover for our 18 month old / 2 dogs. Amazing that the difference in price quoted just for this - 1 company wants £10k, the other £20k! (both plus VAT)

I hear what you are saying about the retractable covers but I just don't like the look of them.

Nobody has actually given me the Kw output of the air source heat pumps, so I will check that against 20Kw recommendation.

Which Robot cleaner is best?

Any cost saving ideas?

[jeff m]

The cheapest method of heating a pool is solar, almost free, except the pump has to work harder to elevate the water to the roof.
I'm in the US so I don't need to heat mine. My brother has an indoor pool in the UK and a Wife that needs the water at 29C.
He has an oil heater and it is costing him a fortune. He also has two dehumidifiers working almost full time.
We have just swapped a couple of e-mails regarding solar, he was quoted 16K sterling. Much to high IMO. Each 8'x4' panel is about $400 here including mounting brackets.

Indoor or outdoor you need a solar cover to prevent overnight heat loss.
Judicious use will prevent a hole in the wallet if you are heating it.
Or in my case water around 88-91F. That may sound too warm to someone in UK, but it is really all about the temp difference between air and the water.

The majority of people in the US still use Chlorine or Bromine, with salt quickly catching up as a sanitiser.
Automatic cleaners are essential, mine does miss a couple of bits though
Tip; as you are in the building stage, the larger the stone or concrete area is around your pool the cleaner it will stay. I always hose down my patio before a party, next day my pool is still pretty clean even though it had a lot of use.

[cuneus]

Best money saving tip - don't do it!

For an outdoor pool I would seriously look at some kind of "canopy" for want of a better word and you spend a lot less on the cover. It will save all sorts of grief

Energy is becoming an expensive commodity

For heat pumps take a VERY careful look at the efficiency graphs - they are really bad at lower temps.

We ran an indoor pool on Economy 7 which is still worth investigating) since the pump and heater run simultaneously

Solar is also a reasonable option: http://www.navitron.org.uk/product.php?proID=86

[dazzalse]

We looked into this extensively last year before having our pool installed (size 11x 5.5 with an all over depth of 1.4) with the intention of using it all year round, we had a 37 kw heat pump installed, and a fully automatic safety cover, I firstly wanted the slatted cover as I personally felt that they look nicer then the safety covers but having dogs and young children we went with the automatic safety cover in the end as it completely safe if a child falls on it. However the reality is that come the end of October the heat pump was running constantly trying to maintain the temp which had been 30 all summer and by the end of october the pool was down to about 24 in temp and i decided to close it up for the winter as it was getting very little use. I think this year I will be adding a oil bolier to extend the season and keep the water temp up when in use in the colder months. It really is a minefield when it come to quotes as they differ so vastly, if you require more info you can PM me, our pool is Bromine with automatic feeder we had also installed a 5 hp swim jet at one end of the pool attached are some pics



Before

[cuneus]

dazzalse - heart failure at those pics - all those leaves !!

for the op (and maybe you) http://www.jacksons-camping.co.uk/swimming/casabla...

[Obiwonkeyblokey]

also think about a swimjet. our pool isnt very large and part of the spec for when we renew it as part of the house development is a swimjet. total cost so far for new plant, lining, swimjet, hard eletric cover and air source heat pump is 47k+ VAT - ouch! this also includes extensive landscaping and decking. I think we will be waiting until next yeasr or maybe the winter before work starts

[JM]

flyingjase said:

Nobody has actually given me the Kw output of the air source heat pumps, so I will check that against 20Kw recommendation.

The Kw output of the heatpump will depend on the ambient air temperature, so you should be able to compare to some extent but not exactly, unless all the makes use the same design parameters.

[FlossyThePig]

Have you considered solar heating for the water. A friend of my brother heats his pool with solar energy and finds it can get too warm in March.

I was involved in pool installation for a few months in the '70s and one pool needed two men with hydraulic drills to dig the last foot in the deep end. The site was granite from about 4 feet down, which defeated both JCB and Hymac (a big bgr with caterpillar track) diggers.

[flyingjase]

dazzalse said:

We looked into this extensively last year before having our pool installed (size 11x 5.5 with an all over depth of 1.4) with the intention of using it all year round, we had a 37 kw heat pump installed, and a fully automatic safety cover, I firstly wanted the slatted cover as I personally felt that they look nicer then the safety covers but having dogs and young children we went with the automatic safety cover in the end as it completely safe if a child falls on it. However the reality is that come the end of October the heat pump was running constantly trying to maintain the temp which had been 30 all summer and by the end of october the pool was down to about 24 in temp and i decided to close it up for the winter as it was getting very little use. I think this year I will be adding a oil bolier to extend the season and keep the water temp up when in use in the colder months. It really is a minefield when it come to quotes as they differ so vastly, if you require more info you can PM me, our pool is Bromine with automatic feeder we had also installed a 5 hp swim jet at one end of the pool attached are some pics



Before

Do you need the swimjet on a pool of that size? I was thinking about one however I'm sure that I want to bother.

Nice looking pool, we're going for a black immediate surround but then light slabs around that. I have 350m2 to pave, so it's all adding up!

I hear what you're saying on the safety cover and vinyl is better, but isn't it a hassle to keep having to put the rain water pump on top? I have found a slatted safety cover that locks at the shallow end that kids can play football on:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KriaAkWbloo

Based on comments above re:heating, I think we will complement an air source heat pump with an LPG boiler as well for the winter

cuneus said:

Best money saving tip - don't do it!

We ran an indoor pool on Economy 7 which is still worth investigating) since the pump and heater run simultaneously

Solar is also a reasonable option: http://www.navitron.org.uk/product.php?proID=86

Thanks for link, so far we have been put off solar because of the set up cost (was quoted £17k!) but that link looks quite reasonable

The pool in a previous house (1997) was economy 7 and worked fine, but apparently it's just not economical anymore becuase taking ecoonomy 7 increases the rate you pay during the day.

Obiwonkeyblokey said:

also think about a swimjet. our pool isnt very large and part of the spec for when we renew it as part of the house development is a swimjet. total cost so far for new plant, lining, swimjet, hard eletric cover and air source heat pump is 47k+ VAT - ouch! this also includes extensive landscaping and decking. I think we will be waiting until next yeasr or maybe the winter before work starts

Out of interest, how much was just the Swimjet part of that?

[cuneus]

LPG is double the cost of Gas

WRT to leccy prices e-on for example

Single rate meter
up to 900Kwh p.a. 19.7p then 10.7p

E7 meter
up to 900Kwh p.a. 23.5p then 12.2p
Night 5p

[mhill]

We have just built our pool our second pool, installed a Alligator and it really cuts down our usage of chemicals!