Typhoon in trouble ?

[MartG]

Just read this article - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/03/eurofighte... - and it doesn't make good reading. However it seems short on actaul facts, so is it simply sensationalist journalism ?

[DamienB]

It's the Reg - it's an electronic Daily Mail in many ways.

Fiddling the figures to make Typhoon more expensive than Raptor is the most obviously transparent bit of bullst.

[shouldbworking]

DamienB said:

It's the Reg - it's an electronic Daily Mail in many ways.

Fiddling the figures to make Typhoon more expensive than Raptor is the most obviously transparent bit of bullst.

To be fair, its not so much the reg as just that one particular 'reporter', an ex-navy person with a gigantic chip on his shoulder.

[disco1]

Regardless of whether or not it costs more than the F22 the project has been a total shambles. 47 in service, only 8 pilots can do ground attack, planes although still new are to be scrapped...etc..etc

Still think we should have gone for FA18s, if we had opted for these in the early 90s we'd by now how a massive fleet for our money with pilots/support ready to land on the new carriers from pretty much day 1 giving us an interchangble RAF/RN platform. They cost a fraction of the price with only a small difference in performance.

[Lord Pikey]

Facts here, they are spouting sensationalised bolleaux.

http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/1011/management...

[Zaxxon]

But their Airships must have their wizzy air defence fighter. Sod capability, as long as it's sleek and shiny and can go jolly fast etc.

At least it finally has a gun.....what farce that was.

[annodomini2]

shouldbworking said:

To be fair, its not so much the reg as just that one particular 'reporter', an ex-navy person with a gigantic chip on his shoulder.

+1

[anonymous-user]

seriously guys, lewis page wrote it. who gives a flying what it says after his fascinating and insightful toy throwing episode titled "donkeys and dinosaurs"......

[davepoth]

It's been a bloody disaster, even if The Register have sexed it up a bit. It's a good interceptor, and will probably make a decent ground attack aircraft. But is it really that much better than the F/A 18 Super Hornet which we could buy fresh of the production line for $55m a pop? Is it really twice the plane of the Typhoon?

[Lost soul]

Lord Pikey said:

Facts here, they are spouting sensationalised bolleaux.

http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/1011/management...

no it is not , the mod always fk up on procurement

[mrloudly]

Lost soul said:

Lord Pikey said:

Facts here, they are spouting sensationalised bolleaux.

http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/1011/management...

no it is not , the mod always fk up on procurement

They have no idea, I know, I deal with them

[lou_m]

davepoth said:

It's been a bloody disaster, even if The Register have sexed it up a bit. It's a good interceptor, and will probably make a decent ground attack aircraft. But is it really that much better than the F/A 18 Super Hornet which we could buy fresh of the production line for $55m a pop? Is it really twice the plane of the Typhoon?

I thought the MOD got their fingers burned when they bought the F4 Phantom's from Uncle Sam. Got them for a good price but got properly shafted on the spares package prices.

The Typhoon will make very good ground attack platform given time. The trials so far have gone very well.

[davepoth]

lou_m said:

I thought the MOD got their fingers burned when they bought the F4 Phantom's from Uncle Sam. Got them for a good price but got properly shafted on the spares package prices.

The Typhoon will make very good ground attack platform given time. The trials so far have gone very well.

They quite possibly did, but the US has now realised the benefits of selling abroad to spread the development costs. That's why Blackhawks, Rivet Joints, Globemasters and so on are such good value.

[dr_gn]

Should have bought the F-18. Typhoon is an old (and very expensive) joke, just like MOD procurement itself in fact:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12643966

[PaulG40]

Yes they do get shafted with procurement, but also the specific part has to pass NDT, and aerospace type specific testing in order for it be used. Now im not saying, certain companies may or may not charge upto 7 times the price for certain test equipment but you just can't go in to a maplins, order the same filament (that's a bulb btw ), or switch etc.

And that soldier (read... stacker(supplier)) should be less of a massive jobsworth, and get on with demanding our bits that we need. I'll tell you, they make it pretty hard for us to just demand LRUs etc that we need to fix U/S assets. They seem to want to know all your fault diagnosis, and exactly how the system works, not that they understand what we are on about.

You do get decent stackers, and it is just Log Ops that are the ones that set the requirements, but some are just jobsworths!


Back on Topic... Typhoon is way be capable than the F/A18 super hornet, and has also been 1 on 1 with the F22 and successfully beaten it many times. Its still very early days for the typhoon. Was Tornado any different? Today's UK and global economic problems are just highlighting the deficiencies more predominantly in the public eye.

[mrloudly]

PaulG40 said:

Yes they do get shafted with procurement, but also the specific part has to pass NDT, and aerospace type specific testing in order for it be used. Now im not saying, certain companies may or may not charge upto 7 times the price for certain test equipment but you just can't go in to a maplins, order the same filament (that's a bulb btw ), or switch etc.

And that soldier (read... stacker(supplier)) should be less of a massive jobsworth, and get on with demanding our bits that we need. I'll tell you, they make it pretty hard for us to just demand LRUs etc that we need to fix U/S assets. They seem to want to know all your fault diagnosis, and exactly how the system works, not that they understand what we are on about.

You do get decent stackers, and it is just Log Ops that are the ones that set the requirements, but some are just jobsworths!


Back on Topic... Typhoon is way be capable than the F/A18 super hornet, and has also been 1 on 1 with the F22 and successfully beaten it many times. Its still very early days for the typhoon. Was Tornado any different? Today's UK and global economic problems are just highlighting the deficiencies more predominantly in the public eye.

Procurement have no idea.... To them it's just a NATO number, to me it's a std Maplin part. Get approval and it's "party time"

It's wrong, but so is 50% income tax

[PaulG40]

mrloudly said:

It's wrong, but so is 50% income tax

Alas, I shall never be in a position to have that 'burden'. I shall continue though, to moan about promotion freeze and reduction in allowances... to the point where you almost can't afford to go on detachment.

[Ian Lancs]

dr_gn said:

Should have bought the F-18. Typhoon is an old (and very expensive) joke, just like MOD procurement itself in fact:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12643966

You are obviously aware of the fact that the Typhoon and F/A-18 (E/F variants) first flew within a year of each other, so by your point, they're both old? If you go to the F/A-18 A/B variants, they're positively ancient (developed during the 70's as an entry into what became the F-16), and entered service in the early 80s.

Anyone who believes everything Lewis Page writes needs a trip to a special doctor...

[davepoth]

PaulG40 said:

Back on Topic... Typhoon is way be capable than the F/A18 super hornet, and has also been 1 on 1 with the F22 and successfully beaten it many times. Its still very early days for the typhoon. Was Tornado any different? Today's UK and global economic problems are just highlighting the deficiencies more predominantly in the public eye.

Is the Typhoon as capable as two F/A 18s though? Because it costs twice as much.

[mrloudly]

PaulG40 said:

Alas, I shall never be in a position to have that 'burden'. I shall continue though, to moan about promotion freeze and reduction in allowances... to the point where you almost can't afford to go on detachment.

If the idiots weren't paying over the odds for everything, there'd be more for everyone!

Example... I know somebody that buys a 78p shear pin from their local bearing stockist and sells it to the MOD for £84.76 ordered forty at a time £31.20 to £3390.00 ....
This has been going of for years. The company supplying the shear pin even offered an alternative product to remove the shear pin and the MOD weren't interested.
F.ckwits!