Edis 8 Trigger Wheel and crank pulley...
Discussion
Just a quick question to those of you that have done this already.
I have just had a look at the bottom pulley to get a rough idea of how long it will take to put the triggerwheel on and i dont think there is enough room to put the thing on!!!!
The rear of the pulley has another drive belt grove that is not used and that is really close to the block. Have people removed this pulley and added the trigger wheel?
Also the location of the VR sensor that i have seen pictured on other installs is going to be really close to the swirl pot to the point where i dont think it will fit.
Lastly do you have to take the y section of the exhaust out to get the pulley off...i know the removable chassis cross member has to come out....just need a rough idea of whats involved so i can decide whether to do it in the evening or best left till the weekend...!
Cheers
I have just had a look at the bottom pulley to get a rough idea of how long it will take to put the triggerwheel on and i dont think there is enough room to put the thing on!!!!
The rear of the pulley has another drive belt grove that is not used and that is really close to the block. Have people removed this pulley and added the trigger wheel?
Also the location of the VR sensor that i have seen pictured on other installs is going to be really close to the swirl pot to the point where i dont think it will fit.
Lastly do you have to take the y section of the exhaust out to get the pulley off...i know the removable chassis cross member has to come out....just need a rough idea of whats involved so i can decide whether to do it in the evening or best left till the weekend...!
Cheers
Not certain which trigger wheel you are planning to fit, the John Eales one comes with a sensor and bracket ready to bolt on. The trigger wheel itself has threaded holes and bolts behind the pulley. However have you thought about the implications of what you are doing ? TVR balanced the engine using the front pulley and Flywheel rather than doing it internally. That means unless your engine has been internally balanced the front pulley will have weights attached that are specific to your engine. Some people have apparently managed to fit trigger wheels without changing the balance but I am not convinced. Having suffered a broken crank, I suspect due to the incorrect front pulley being fitted by a "specialist" I was very weary when fitting a sensor on mine and had the engine properly balanced first.
really do appreciate what you are saying and have read previous threads on here saying the same thing...most seem to be related more towards the 5ltr (mine is a 4ltr HC).
The trigger wheel i have is very similar to the ones at triggger-wheels.com.
I was planning to put everything back the way it was taken off hoping that anything that was ballanced if at all will remain the same.
I just cant see there being the room to fit the wheel onto the pulley as well...tomorrow i will take some pictures and post them on here so people can have a better look. That might help a bit...!
The trigger wheel i have is very similar to the ones at triggger-wheels.com.
I was planning to put everything back the way it was taken off hoping that anything that was ballanced if at all will remain the same.
I just cant see there being the room to fit the wheel onto the pulley as well...tomorrow i will take some pictures and post them on here so people can have a better look. That might help a bit...!
spend said:
Serp or pre-serp?
Sheet TW's with the teeth bent up like a crown allow fitment between damper & crank pulley so you only have 1mm shift to sort out. For some reason these TW's seem to be very unfashionable ~ but they work much better on the diffs than the T5 style solid wheels IMHO.
Yeah i have seen pictures of those ones but i couldnt find any so i went the easy route and bought from ebay.Sheet TW's with the teeth bent up like a crown allow fitment between damper & crank pulley so you only have 1mm shift to sort out. For some reason these TW's seem to be very unfashionable ~ but they work much better on the diffs than the T5 style solid wheels IMHO.
The engine is a pre serp btw.
Like you say the thin ones are ideal with only 1mm of shift compared to the one i have that is 5mm thick plus a 5mm packer which i am not going to use. I did notice tqo shims on my pully so i will get about 2mm there.
Looks like this is not going to be a half hour job...!
Not good seeing as though i spent yesterday changing front wheel bearings, track rod ends, ball joints and front pads...the enemy will not be happy...!
The ring behing the crank pulley was rovers attempt at catching oil from a leaky front crank seal [in ancient times, seals now are better] and save oil drops at standstill, so it can be discarded if your replacing with a trigger wheel. Honest, Billy Eales told me this when I took my trigger wheel/crank pulley assembly to him to get balanced. Of which I think is a good idea for you to do. That ring does have weights on it.
The thinner, bent steel sheet arrangement was the only option I considered as a possibility before the engine was internaly balanced. I think there is a suitable wheel available from the Ford parts bin. I have seen an arrangement where the pulley and harmonic damper were separated a bit was machined off to accommodate the Ford trigger wheel and it all bolted back together nicely. You are right it does seem to be the 4997 engine that snaps cranks.
I would advise against discarding the balancing weights. A possibility that I considered is to check the pulley balance, fit your sensor and then rebalance the assembly so it is the same as before. On my TVR built engine there was a number stamped on the crank end. With that number Dom at TVR Power was able to reproduce the required pulley balance to match so if you can see the number try calling him for advice.
I would advise against discarding the balancing weights. A possibility that I considered is to check the pulley balance, fit your sensor and then rebalance the assembly so it is the same as before. On my TVR built engine there was a number stamped on the crank end. With that number Dom at TVR Power was able to reproduce the required pulley balance to match so if you can see the number try calling him for advice.
steve-V8s said:
The thinner, bent steel sheet arrangement was the only option I considered as a possibility before the engine was internaly balanced. I think there is a suitable wheel available from the Ford parts bin. I have seen an arrangement where the pulley and harmonic damper were separated a bit was machined off to accommodate the Ford trigger wheel and it all bolted back together nicely. You are right it does seem to be the 4997 engine that snaps cranks.
I would advise against discarding the balancing weights. A possibility that I considered is to check the pulley balance, fit your sensor and then rebalance the assembly so it is the same as before. On my TVR built engine there was a number stamped on the crank end. With that number Dom at TVR Power was able to reproduce the required pulley balance to match so if you can see the number try calling him for advice.
Ah, should've mentioned that I had mine balanced to match the old discarded ring/pulley.I would advise against discarding the balancing weights. A possibility that I considered is to check the pulley balance, fit your sensor and then rebalance the assembly so it is the same as before. On my TVR built engine there was a number stamped on the crank end. With that number Dom at TVR Power was able to reproduce the required pulley balance to match so if you can see the number try calling him for advice.
so really it is not going to be a weekend job unless i can find somewhere in the north east to rebalance the pulley.
I could just put it on and take my chance but i really want to do this right first time.
Luckily i have access to lathes etc so any machining wont be an issue...
I think i might take off the pulley and have a look at the back and see if there are any weights or markings on them.
From what i could see tonight with everything in situ ther was a bolt missing out of the pulley already....six bolt holes and one was empty...!
Annoying really as i have finished making the loom for the edis kit, made the brackets for the coil packs and just need to do this to get it running...!
I could just put it on and take my chance but i really want to do this right first time.
Luckily i have access to lathes etc so any machining wont be an issue...
I think i might take off the pulley and have a look at the back and see if there are any weights or markings on them.
From what i could see tonight with everything in situ ther was a bolt missing out of the pulley already....six bolt holes and one was empty...!
Annoying really as i have finished making the loom for the edis kit, made the brackets for the coil packs and just need to do this to get it running...!
Mine is a serp. so don't know how similar, but I had to grind off a little bit of the timing cover to make the supplied bracket fit - which was supposedly specially made for the serp engine - so if you're having trouble fitting the bracket make sure you have the pre-serp type, and be prepared to 'make' it fit even if you do.
If it's the VR sensor that's close to the swirl pot, I found they come in many different lengths (and sizes), with different angles of plug - this may help create some room if you need.
You probably have the same trigger wheel I bought, to bind it all secure I used some longer bolts, as once you add the 5mm for the trigger wheel you don't have much bite left on the original bolts (I ground the bolts down and until they were all the same weight on accurate scales).
Also, to help keep the balance all in trim I drilled a hole in the trigger wheel to off-set the missing tooth. I can dig out the dimensions and position if you need.
The sheet type tw as others have recommended is likely a good option - believe the one you need is off a transit if you go that route.
If it's the VR sensor that's close to the swirl pot, I found they come in many different lengths (and sizes), with different angles of plug - this may help create some room if you need.
You probably have the same trigger wheel I bought, to bind it all secure I used some longer bolts, as once you add the 5mm for the trigger wheel you don't have much bite left on the original bolts (I ground the bolts down and until they were all the same weight on accurate scales).
Also, to help keep the balance all in trim I drilled a hole in the trigger wheel to off-set the missing tooth. I can dig out the dimensions and position if you need.
The sheet type tw as others have recommended is likely a good option - believe the one you need is off a transit if you go that route.
I spoke to Shaun at V8D about re balancing the pulley when i did mine, he mentioned the possibility of shagging the crank key way with it unbalanced so i decided for the sake of £40ish it wasn't worth the risk, I'm pretty sure it was billy eales who did mine to 
i also had to grind a small section from the front cover to get the sensor bracket to fit.
i also had to grind a small section from the front cover to get the sensor bracket to fit.
Teetertank said:
You probably have the same trigger wheel I bought, to bind it all secure I used some longer bolts, as once you add the 5mm for the trigger wheel you don't have much bite left on the original bolts (I ground the bolts down and until they were all the same weight on accurate scales).
Also, to help keep the balance all in trim I drilled a hole in the trigger wheel to off-set the missing tooth. I can dig out the dimensions and position if you need.
It came with the longer bolts so thats not a problem.Also, to help keep the balance all in trim I drilled a hole in the trigger wheel to off-set the missing tooth. I can dig out the dimensions and position if you need.
Adding the trigger wheel - did it throw the alignment of the belt out at all...or am i just thinking about it too much?
Although thinking about it i can move the alternator the same distance and shim out the water pump pulley to re-align everything...
I was going to drill a hole opposite the missing tooth - i was thinking just as close to the edge as opposite and about 10mm dia...
Cut a hole in the middle of the TW and weld it onto your crank pulley. It's better to come forward with the preserp and have the sensor @9 oclock IMHO. There are 2 level boltholes (1/4"UNC IIRC) on the timing cover to clamp some ally angle & make your own bracket.
ETA: EDIS is a real PITA in that you have to get the missing tooth PERFECTLY aligned ~ I'd never touch it personally
rest of us just tweak it in s/w so alignment is not so critical.
ETA: EDIS is a real PITA in that you have to get the missing tooth PERFECTLY aligned ~ I'd never touch it personally
rest of us just tweak it in s/w so alignment is not so critical.Edited by spend on Monday 7th March 21:33
Meatball said:
shagging the crank key way with it unbalanced
When I removed my pulley wheel I found the keyway on the pulley-wheel was, as Meat says - shagged. There was a crack on the inside of the pulley wheel and finally found the source of my oil leak. Maybe this was caused by overtightening of the crank bolt at some point rather than from being out of balance though? This was discovered when I removed to fit the trigger wheel, mine is a 500 and had the serial nos and balance weights added and drilled balance holes on the damper. When I saw how loose the pulley must have been from the state of the keyway, it made me realise that the balance of the engine can't be that important as it's all still well intact. When I spoke to Eales, he said the engine would be destroyed within in 5 mins if you run it without re-balancing.
I'm sure balancing is wise if it's within your means, but from my experience not esential. And seeing as you have a non 500 then would say less to worry about. You also only have 5 bolts holding your wheel on apparently, and presumably it's been fine running like that, and you weren't worried about it being unbalanced!
Edited by Teetertank on Monday 7th March 21:45
spend said:
It's better to come forward with the preserp and have the sensor @9 oclock IMHO. There are 2 level boltholes (1/4"UNC IIRC) on the timing cover to clamp some ally angle & make your own bracket.
The missing tooth has to be 5 teeth BTDC so i assumed the sensor had to go at the 3 oclock (ish) position?andy-w said:
spend said:
It's better to come forward with the preserp and have the sensor @9 oclock IMHO. There are 2 level boltholes (1/4"UNC IIRC) on the timing cover to clamp some ally angle & make your own bracket.
The missing tooth has to be 5 teeth BTDC so i assumed the sensor had to go at the 3 oclock (ish) position?And i thought i had looked into this enough to get a clear picture...!
So i can set the sensor at 9 oclock and have the missing tooth 5 teeth past the sensor...
Set the pulley to TDC
Mount bracket at 9 oclock
set missing tooth 5 teeth past sensor heading towards the tdc mark
sound right?
just had a look here http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/EDIS.htm and rechecked and yes Spend you were right....it was just me being thick
So i can set the sensor at 9 oclock and have the missing tooth 5 teeth past the sensor...
Set the pulley to TDC
Mount bracket at 9 oclock
set missing tooth 5 teeth past sensor heading towards the tdc mark
sound right?
just had a look here http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/EDIS.htm and rechecked and yes Spend you were right....it was just me being thick
Edited by andy-w on Monday 7th March 22:10
Just to be clear the process of installing TW & sensor as I see it is:
Work out plane that trigger wheel will be fixed to crank assembly.
Look for suitable bracket location. ~ small sturdy bracket ~ suitably level bolt holes in timing cover ~ rigidity ~ some level of angular (point at centre of crank) rotational (tweak vs missing tooth angle) and gap adjustment...
Consider diameter of TW in relation to above.
Go through several iterations till you are satisfied with derived solution and make it.
Then & only then do you need to consider where the TW gets fixed so that you can set the missing tooth where you need it, whether bolting or welding...
Work out plane that trigger wheel will be fixed to crank assembly.
Look for suitable bracket location. ~ small sturdy bracket ~ suitably level bolt holes in timing cover ~ rigidity ~ some level of angular (point at centre of crank) rotational (tweak vs missing tooth angle) and gap adjustment...
Consider diameter of TW in relation to above.
Go through several iterations till you are satisfied with derived solution and make it.
Then & only then do you need to consider where the TW gets fixed so that you can set the missing tooth where you need it, whether bolting or welding...
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