So, I got pulled into the bosses office today...
Discussion
... And I have a meeting with them tomorrow to discuss a potential disciplinary/dismissal.
I work for a personalised gifts company. It's a small company but we supply all sorts to a number of large names and have a few fairly high profile licenced products too. I work in the prints department, sitting, staring at a screen all day.
I went into work this morning and my line manager immediatly calls me into the office. He starts off telling me that they had heard last thursday that I had setup my own personalised gifts company and were trying to make a rival company.
Totally unfound and they haven't given me any evidence other than that they had heard rumours from my office. I know who has told them as he's a sniveling little
. Anyway, I told my boss that I hadn't setup said company and that the only thing I could see that might start that rumour was that I recently bought a plotter for my own personal use (making the odd sticker and the like). By recently, I mean literally a few days ago, so it would be pretty hard for me to setup a company.
He then changed the subject to internet usage. Fair enough, I have used internet on company time but so does everyone else. Internet is freely available with filters and its fair to say I have had the odd peak whilst still working. I don't sit there for hours on it.
He printed out "my" computers history and told me to read through it. He highlighted the stuff that was on company time. I told him to "bear in mind that I'm not the only one who uses this machine" which is true and I found loads of stuff that he had highlighted that wasn't mine.
Another thing he mentioned was phone calls. He said I am constantly on the phone which is bullst. I only answer the phone to my partner who is at home with my 6 month old daughter who would only call me in an emergency.
We had a bit of a heated debate, not an argument but I ended up being suspended with pay until the meeting tomorrow.
Now, I fully hold my hands up to the internet useage. Everyone in the company does it and I feel I am being singled out. My boss basically told me this was so as well. He said that they wanted to crack down and had to start somewhere. As for starting another business. It is totally bullst but he seems to keep pressing the matter. The guy that has started the rumour is a total arselicker and management eat out of his hands so will pretty much take his word regardless what I say.
I've just spoken to a colleague who told me he has been questioned today about me and my "business". He said it sounds like they have already made their mind up and are talking as if I've already gone.
Just want to know what my options are really? any advice?
I work for a personalised gifts company. It's a small company but we supply all sorts to a number of large names and have a few fairly high profile licenced products too. I work in the prints department, sitting, staring at a screen all day.
I went into work this morning and my line manager immediatly calls me into the office. He starts off telling me that they had heard last thursday that I had setup my own personalised gifts company and were trying to make a rival company.
Totally unfound and they haven't given me any evidence other than that they had heard rumours from my office. I know who has told them as he's a sniveling little
. Anyway, I told my boss that I hadn't setup said company and that the only thing I could see that might start that rumour was that I recently bought a plotter for my own personal use (making the odd sticker and the like). By recently, I mean literally a few days ago, so it would be pretty hard for me to setup a company.He then changed the subject to internet usage. Fair enough, I have used internet on company time but so does everyone else. Internet is freely available with filters and its fair to say I have had the odd peak whilst still working. I don't sit there for hours on it.
He printed out "my" computers history and told me to read through it. He highlighted the stuff that was on company time. I told him to "bear in mind that I'm not the only one who uses this machine" which is true and I found loads of stuff that he had highlighted that wasn't mine.
Another thing he mentioned was phone calls. He said I am constantly on the phone which is bulls
t. I only answer the phone to my partner who is at home with my 6 month old daughter who would only call me in an emergency. We had a bit of a heated debate, not an argument but I ended up being suspended with pay until the meeting tomorrow.
Now, I fully hold my hands up to the internet useage. Everyone in the company does it and I feel I am being singled out. My boss basically told me this was so as well. He said that they wanted to crack down and had to start somewhere. As for starting another business. It is totally bulls
t but he seems to keep pressing the matter. The guy that has started the rumour is a total arselicker and management eat out of his hands so will pretty much take his word regardless what I say.I've just spoken to a colleague who told me he has been questioned today about me and my "business". He said it sounds like they have already made their mind up and are talking as if I've already gone.
Just want to know what my options are really? any advice?
Deluded said:
... And I have a meeting with them tomorrow to discuss a potential disciplinary/dismissal.
I work for a personalised gifts company. It's a small company but we supply all sorts to a number of large names and have a few fairly high profile licenced products too. I work in the prints department, sitting, staring at a screen all day.
I went into work this morning and my line manager immediatly calls me into the office. He starts off telling me that they had heard last thursday that I had setup my own personalised gifts company and were trying to make a rival company.
Totally unfound and they haven't given me any evidence other than that they had heard rumours from my office. I know who has told them as he's a sniveling little. Anyway, I told my boss that I hadn't setup said company and that the only thing I could see that might start that rumour was that I recently bought a plotter for my own personal use (making the odd sticker and the like). By recently, I mean literally a few days ago, so it would be pretty hard for me to setup a company.
He then changed the subject to internet usage. Fair enough, I have used internet on company time but so does everyone else. Internet is freely available with filters and its fair to say I have had the odd peak whilst still working. I don't sit there for hours on it.
He printed out "my" computers history and told me to read through it. He highlighted the stuff that was on company time. I told him to "bear in mind that I'm not the only one who uses this machine" which is true and I found loads of stuff that he had highlighted that wasn't mine.
Another thing he mentioned was phone calls. He said I am constantly on the phone which is bullst. I only answer the phone to my partner who is at home with my 6 month old daughter who would only call me in an emergency.
We had a bit of a heated debate, not an argument but I ended up being suspended with pay until the meeting tomorrow.
Now, I fully hold my hands up to the internet useage. Everyone in the company does it and I feel I am being singled out. My boss basically told me this was so as well. He said that they wanted to crack down and had to start somewhere. As for starting another business. It is totally bullst but he seems to keep pressing the matter. The guy that has started the rumour is a total arselicker and management eat out of his hands so will pretty much take his word regardless what I say.
I've just spoken to a colleague who told me he has been questioned today about me and my "business". He said it sounds like they have already made their mind up and are talking as if I've already gone.
Just want to know what my options are really? any advice?
take solicitor into meeting??I work for a personalised gifts company. It's a small company but we supply all sorts to a number of large names and have a few fairly high profile licenced products too. I work in the prints department, sitting, staring at a screen all day.
I went into work this morning and my line manager immediatly calls me into the office. He starts off telling me that they had heard last thursday that I had setup my own personalised gifts company and were trying to make a rival company.
Totally unfound and they haven't given me any evidence other than that they had heard rumours from my office. I know who has told them as he's a sniveling little
. Anyway, I told my boss that I hadn't setup said company and that the only thing I could see that might start that rumour was that I recently bought a plotter for my own personal use (making the odd sticker and the like). By recently, I mean literally a few days ago, so it would be pretty hard for me to setup a company.He then changed the subject to internet usage. Fair enough, I have used internet on company time but so does everyone else. Internet is freely available with filters and its fair to say I have had the odd peak whilst still working. I don't sit there for hours on it.
He printed out "my" computers history and told me to read through it. He highlighted the stuff that was on company time. I told him to "bear in mind that I'm not the only one who uses this machine" which is true and I found loads of stuff that he had highlighted that wasn't mine.
Another thing he mentioned was phone calls. He said I am constantly on the phone which is bulls
t. I only answer the phone to my partner who is at home with my 6 month old daughter who would only call me in an emergency. We had a bit of a heated debate, not an argument but I ended up being suspended with pay until the meeting tomorrow.
Now, I fully hold my hands up to the internet useage. Everyone in the company does it and I feel I am being singled out. My boss basically told me this was so as well. He said that they wanted to crack down and had to start somewhere. As for starting another business. It is totally bulls
t but he seems to keep pressing the matter. The guy that has started the rumour is a total arselicker and management eat out of his hands so will pretty much take his word regardless what I say.I've just spoken to a colleague who told me he has been questioned today about me and my "business". He said it sounds like they have already made their mind up and are talking as if I've already gone.
Just want to know what my options are really? any advice?
In my experience (I work in IT and have had to produce these "lists" of internet usage) if you're on a shared computer then there's no way they can pin it down to you.
I remember one chap on a nightshift who was looking at some fairly terrible porn. He had his own login, but claimed it was used as a generic one. We proved it was only ever logged in when he was on shift, and it was his duty to lock the machine when he was away from it, but his union still got him off and he kept his job. And kept looking at porn.
I remember one chap on a nightshift who was looking at some fairly terrible porn. He had his own login, but claimed it was used as a generic one. We proved it was only ever logged in when he was on shift, and it was his duty to lock the machine when he was away from it, but his union still got him off and he kept his job. And kept looking at porn.
Or, fight it every step of the way.
Hold your hand up to the internet usage, but make it clear that because everyone does it and you haven't been warned, either collectively or singly, before that it is victimisation to pick you out for punishment.
Make them show you the proof of you setting up your business. You are not doing anything illegal or contrary to their business that they can prove.
Worst case scenario is a verbal or written warning (not a final) for the internet usage. Anything else and you have excellent grounds for a tribunal, I would have thought, for unfair dismissal.
This is just my opinion based on my experience of working for knobs in the past, I'm not qualified!!
Hold your hand up to the internet usage, but make it clear that because everyone does it and you haven't been warned, either collectively or singly, before that it is victimisation to pick you out for punishment.
Make them show you the proof of you setting up your business. You are not doing anything illegal or contrary to their business that they can prove.
Worst case scenario is a verbal or written warning (not a final) for the internet usage. Anything else and you have excellent grounds for a tribunal, I would have thought, for unfair dismissal.
This is just my opinion based on my experience of working for knobs in the past, I'm not qualified!!
They have no proof of said business as I already asked. They printed off some random images I'd saved from google etc on my PC and claimed they were designs for said business. Yet, he keeps pressing on it as if I'm suddenly going to break down and pour my heart out to him.
It's hard to put everything down it words as I've so fking angry. Fumming to the point I would happily go and set fire to the place... I wont though.
My situation in the whole matter is hard though. I hate the place. The work is OK but the management are out to get everyone and it's just a st atmosphere. I like 2 of the guys I work with but the other (the grasser) is our "supervisor" and is a right . He's all matey to your face but constantly bhed about everyone behind there backs.
I've been looking for other work on and off for the last few months but haven't found much of interest (hence why I'm still here) but it's really been getting to me recently. I think about quitting all the time.
Problem is that I can't. I have a 6 month old daughter, the missus is on maternity and doesn't get a great deal. We need my wage to pay for a lot.
I want to go in tomorrow. Sit down, let him start talking and then "oh wait, let me interupt you for a second... STICK YOUR JOB UP YOUR fkING ARSE!" and walk out. Would be great... But wont happen.
Anyway, if all goes ok tomorrow and I still get to stay (although I doubt it), I won't be able to work in the office with the grasser. It's awkward as it is and know he tried to get me fired will make it impossible.
Seems i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place... but as my colleague said, quitting might do me a favour in the long run.
It's hard to put everything down it words as I've so f
king angry. Fumming to the point I would happily go and set fire to the place... I wont though.My situation in the whole matter is hard though. I hate the place. The work is OK but the management are out to get everyone and it's just a s
t atmosphere. I like 2 of the guys I work with but the other (the grasser) is our "supervisor" and is a right . He's all matey to your face but constantly bhed about everyone behind there backs.I've been looking for other work on and off for the last few months but haven't found much of interest (hence why I'm still here) but it's really been getting to me recently. I think about quitting all the time.
Problem is that I can't. I have a 6 month old daughter, the missus is on maternity and doesn't get a great deal. We need my wage to pay for a lot.
I want to go in tomorrow. Sit down, let him start talking and then "oh wait, let me interupt you for a second... STICK YOUR JOB UP YOUR f
kING ARSE!" and walk out. Would be great... But wont happen.Anyway, if all goes ok tomorrow and I still get to stay (although I doubt it), I won't be able to work in the office with the grasser. It's awkward as it is and know he tried to get me fired will make it impossible.
Seems i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place... but as my colleague said, quitting might do me a favour in the long run.
Tyre Smoke said:
Or, fight it every step of the way.
Hold your hand up to the internet usage, but make it clear that because everyone does it and you haven't been warned, either collectively or singly, before that it is victimisation to pick you out for punishment.
Already did this. I quote "We are trying to crack down on this and we have to start somewhere". I think they are more hung up on the whole rival business thing and the internet thing is just to tag on to seal the deal. He mentioned that I had been looking at some of the equipment we have in the office on ebay, to which I told him "yes, I already told you I bought a plotter and I bought it from ebay!"... He wasn't listening.
Make them show you the proof of you setting up your business. You are not doing anything illegal or contrary to their business that they can prove.
Worst case scenario is a verbal or written warning (not a final) for the internet usage. Anything else and you have excellent grounds for a tribunal, I would have thought, for unfair dismissal.
I've read my contact and it states that use of the internet for personal use can lead to dismissal at the first instance.
This is just my opinion based on my experience of working for knobs in the past, I'm not qualified!!
Hold your hand up to the internet usage, but make it clear that because everyone does it and you haven't been warned, either collectively or singly, before that it is victimisation to pick you out for punishment.
Already did this. I quote "We are trying to crack down on this and we have to start somewhere". I think they are more hung up on the whole rival business thing and the internet thing is just to tag on to seal the deal. He mentioned that I had been looking at some of the equipment we have in the office on ebay, to which I told him "yes, I already told you I bought a plotter and I bought it from ebay!"... He wasn't listening.
Make them show you the proof of you setting up your business. You are not doing anything illegal or contrary to their business that they can prove.
Worst case scenario is a verbal or written warning (not a final) for the internet usage. Anything else and you have excellent grounds for a tribunal, I would have thought, for unfair dismissal.
I've read my contact and it states that use of the internet for personal use can lead to dismissal at the first instance.
This is just my opinion based on my experience of working for knobs in the past, I'm not qualified!!
Read about Compromise Agreements this evening, and read well.
They don't seem to have enough to sack you, unless phone use is classed as gross misconduct at your company (it'd be in the employee handbook if it was). Certainly the starting your own company thing would be enough to sack you if it wasn't a blatant lie.
As to the internet, if they have already admitted that there's no way for them to tell who has been using your PC for personal internet use they can't really use that argument.
If you really think you're going to be sacked, it may be worth pissing them off some to get some time to look for another job. One of the things they have to do is show you the evidence they have to prove your gross misconduct.
Look up the ACAS guidelines on Disciplinary hearings.
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2177
I'm assuming they've not notified you in writing. They also haven't provided either the interview notes from the scrote who grassed you up for (not) starting a new company, or the phone records. I would guess that the same person did the investigation and the hearing. By holding the interview tomorrow they are not providing you with enough time to prepare. You also have the right to be accompanied which it appears they have also forgotten about.
At a company I particularly diskliked but couldn't be bothered to leave, I span out a disciplinary for about 7 months. They got wise to my game and managed to finish a second one in under 5, but I walked out of there with a cheque for 12 months' gross salary.
-edited to remove the internet thing-
They don't seem to have enough to sack you, unless phone use is classed as gross misconduct at your company (it'd be in the employee handbook if it was). Certainly the starting your own company thing would be enough to sack you if it wasn't a blatant lie.
As to the internet, if they have already admitted that there's no way for them to tell who has been using your PC for personal internet use they can't really use that argument.
If you really think you're going to be sacked, it may be worth pissing them off some to get some time to look for another job. One of the things they have to do is show you the evidence they have to prove your gross misconduct.
Look up the ACAS guidelines on Disciplinary hearings.
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2177
I'm assuming they've not notified you in writing. They also haven't provided either the interview notes from the scrote who grassed you up for (not) starting a new company, or the phone records. I would guess that the same person did the investigation and the hearing. By holding the interview tomorrow they are not providing you with enough time to prepare. You also have the right to be accompanied which it appears they have also forgotten about.
At a company I particularly diskliked but couldn't be bothered to leave, I span out a disciplinary for about 7 months. They got wise to my game and managed to finish a second one in under 5, but I walked out of there with a cheque for 12 months' gross salary.
-edited to remove the internet thing-
Edited by davepoth on Monday 7th March 18:11
If you don't have access to it, ask to see the companies disciplinary procedures.
They must have one, and if they don't they can't just make it up as they go along, they are just setting themselves up for a whole world of pain if you choose to make it hurt.
Whatever the procedures say, they can't sack you for something just like that. Sounds like they are setting themselves up to look right tts in front of a well informed employee. There is due process, warnings, appeals, etc etc,
Ask to see the grievance procedures. Maybe raise a grievance against the bloke who grassed you for his behavior. And perhaps a grievance against the management for their treatment of you based on your plotter purchase!
You have the right to understand the issues they are concerned with and see all the evidence they are going to present you with so you can prepare your defence. They can't have a kangaroo court and surprise you with a load of crap wind you up and make you walk out or sack you.
Are there any women, people of a different race to you etc who also look at the internet? Are they treating them in the same way? If not, why not? RACIST/SEXIST etc.
If they want rid of you, make them pay. Don't walk out and don't let them sack you. Remind them that pay offs (AKA compromise agreements) can be offset against tax and are a damn sight more user friendly that tribunals and articles in local newspapers.
if you want, take an employment lawyer with you. They MUST inform you if your right to be accompanied. Or just take your brother in law to take notes and give the air of being an employment lawyer. Sounds like they have a good chance of backing themselves into a nasty corner.
They must have one, and if they don't they can't just make it up as they go along, they are just setting themselves up for a whole world of pain if you choose to make it hurt.
Whatever the procedures say, they can't sack you for something just like that. Sounds like they are setting themselves up to look right t
ts in front of a well informed employee. There is due process, warnings, appeals, etc etc,Ask to see the grievance procedures. Maybe raise a grievance against the bloke who grassed you for his behavior. And perhaps a grievance against the management for their treatment of you based on your plotter purchase!
You have the right to understand the issues they are concerned with and see all the evidence they are going to present you with so you can prepare your defence. They can't have a kangaroo court and surprise you with a load of crap wind you up and make you walk out or sack you.
Are there any women, people of a different race to you etc who also look at the internet? Are they treating them in the same way? If not, why not? RACIST/SEXIST etc.
If they want rid of you, make them pay. Don't walk out and don't let them sack you. Remind them that pay offs (AKA compromise agreements) can be offset against tax and are a damn sight more user friendly that tribunals and articles in local newspapers.
if you want, take an employment lawyer with you. They MUST inform you if your right to be accompanied. Or just take your brother in law to take notes and give the air of being an employment lawyer. Sounds like they have a good chance of backing themselves into a nasty corner.
Stigproducts said:
if you want, take an employment lawyer with you. They MUST inform you if your right to be accompanied. Or just take your brother in law to take notes and give the air of being an employment lawyer.
If it's a true disciplinary hearing he will be allowed to be accompanied by a colleague or Trade Union rep only. If he tries to bring anyone else into the meeting with him the company is entitled to ask them to leave.ETA But if your employers are trying to screw you over, make sure to take as many minutes/notes from the meeting as possible; if HR are present they should be taking minutes and are obliged to make a copy available to you within 5 days of the hearing. Pass all of this onto an employment lawyer if you wish; but technically you can't take a lawyer into a disciplinary with you.
Edited by boomboompow on Monday 7th March 22:30
boomboompow said:
Stigproducts said:
if you want, take an employment lawyer with you. They MUST inform you if your right to be accompanied. Or just take your brother in law to take notes and give the air of being an employment lawyer.
If it's a true disciplinary hearing he will be allowed to be accompanied by a colleague or Trade Union rep only. If he tries to bring anyone else into the meeting with him the company is entitled to ask them to leave.OP, good luck, give it to them both barrels. Agree with the suggestions for compromise agreement. They want shot, you want shot, you just need to paint the picture of how expensive you can truly make it for them and they will be reaching for their pen to sign.
fergywales said:
By their actions prior to the meeting as covered so far, I would doubt they would have the intelligence to know this.
OP, good luck, give it to them both barrels. Agree with the suggestions for compromise agreement. They want shot, you want shot, you just need to paint the picture of how expensive you can truly make it for them and they will be reaching for their pen to sign.
And with the proceeds set up your own personalised gifts company...OP, good luck, give it to them both barrels. Agree with the suggestions for compromise agreement. They want shot, you want shot, you just need to paint the picture of how expensive you can truly make it for them and they will be reaching for their pen to sign.
CDP said:
fergywales said:
By their actions prior to the meeting as covered so far, I would doubt they would have the intelligence to know this.
OP, good luck, give it to them both barrels. Agree with the suggestions for compromise agreement. They want shot, you want shot, you just need to paint the picture of how expensive you can truly make it for them and they will be reaching for their pen to sign.
And with the proceeds set up your own personalised gifts company...OP, good luck, give it to them both barrels. Agree with the suggestions for compromise agreement. They want shot, you want shot, you just need to paint the picture of how expensive you can truly make it for them and they will be reaching for their pen to sign.
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