Road to Hell in a Handcart: UK Economy Today HELP
Discussion
In forty years of being an Accountant in Industry I have watched the gross industrial product produced in the UK fall year upon year upon year.
At the same time living standards have soared: both personal and business borrowing has soared, unemployment has soared and is still rising steadily, expectations have grown and the benefits culture has mushroomed.
All in all a pretty disastrous downward spiral.
I cannot see how, unless we dramatically change our economic direction we will recover our former wealth.
The efforts of our politicians seem to consist of hand wringing, jockeying for position, and feathering their own personal nests.
Surely if our economy goes on as it is there can only be one answer.
Economic collapse and massive unrest and misery.
As a nation we spend more than we earn, produce less than we consume, import more than we export.
Is not catastrophe inevitable? Can anyone see a way out PLEASE!!
At the same time living standards have soared: both personal and business borrowing has soared, unemployment has soared and is still rising steadily, expectations have grown and the benefits culture has mushroomed.
All in all a pretty disastrous downward spiral.
I cannot see how, unless we dramatically change our economic direction we will recover our former wealth.
The efforts of our politicians seem to consist of hand wringing, jockeying for position, and feathering their own personal nests.
Surely if our economy goes on as it is there can only be one answer.
Economic collapse and massive unrest and misery.
As a nation we spend more than we earn, produce less than we consume, import more than we export.
Is not catastrophe inevitable? Can anyone see a way out PLEASE!!
Steffan said:
In forty years of being an Accountant in Industry I have watched the gross industrial product produced in the UK fall year upon year upon year.
At the same time living standards have soared: both personal and business borrowing has soared, unemployment has soared and is still rising steadily, expectations have grown and the benefits culture has mushroomed.
All in all a pretty disastrous downward spiral.
I cannot see how, unless we dramatically change our economic direction we will recover our former wealth.
The efforts of our politicians seem to consist of hand wringing, jockeying for position, and feathering their own personal nests.
Surely if our economy goes on as it is there can only be one answer.
Economic collapse and massive unrest and misery.
As a nation we spend more than we earn, produce less than we consume, import more than we export.
Is not catastrophe inevitable? Can anyone see a way out PLEASE!!
Yes, but it's all the bankers' fault....At the same time living standards have soared: both personal and business borrowing has soared, unemployment has soared and is still rising steadily, expectations have grown and the benefits culture has mushroomed.
All in all a pretty disastrous downward spiral.
I cannot see how, unless we dramatically change our economic direction we will recover our former wealth.
The efforts of our politicians seem to consist of hand wringing, jockeying for position, and feathering their own personal nests.
Surely if our economy goes on as it is there can only be one answer.
Economic collapse and massive unrest and misery.
As a nation we spend more than we earn, produce less than we consume, import more than we export.
Is not catastrophe inevitable? Can anyone see a way out PLEASE!!
Allegedly!
Sidicks
Steffan said:
... living standards have soared
... both personal and business borrowing has soared,
... unemployment has soared
... benefits culture has mushroomed.
... disastrous downward spiral.
... dramatically change our economic direction...
... Economic collapse
... massive unrest and misery.
... catastrophe
Source of economic data: Daily Mail and The One Show.... both personal and business borrowing has soared,
... unemployment has soared
... benefits culture has mushroomed.
... disastrous downward spiral.
... dramatically change our economic direction...
... Economic collapse
... massive unrest and misery.
... catastrophe
What do accountants do for fun these days? Anyone any suggestions for Steffan?
Hysteria is for people who don't have proper stuff to worry about.
The OP needs a fix of 'real' danger. Doesn't matter what - bungee jumping, full-contact banger racing, downhill mountain bking - but once the adrenaline is flowing and you are fully focussed, nothing else matters. The peace and tranquility afterwards is indescribable.
HTH.
Dr Digga
The OP needs a fix of 'real' danger. Doesn't matter what - bungee jumping, full-contact banger racing, downhill mountain bking - but once the adrenaline is flowing and you are fully focussed, nothing else matters. The peace and tranquility afterwards is indescribable.
HTH.
Dr Digga
Edited by Digga on Tuesday 8th March 14:12
I suppose I am particularly irked by the utter nonsense most politicians talk. If you think Cameron and Cleg or Milliband and Balls have any interests other than their own career rising and their own finances improving you are I think sadly mistaken.
Cutting the economy and staying afloat by reducing government spending is only one way of solving the problem. And not a very good one either.
What I would like to see would be government sponsored manufacturing grants properly controlled and targeted to be dependant upon real production in the UK.
I am aware of the risks of grant funding and scams. We DO NOT want another Training Agency Scam.
Surely really heavy tax breaks and grants could be used to regenerate some of the industries in the UK that have collapsed whole scale over the last thirty years.
I realise there are risks of fraud etc but if we do nothing then nothing is going to happen to solve the problem.
GOVERNMENT bureaucracy needs to be slashed to allow far easier industrial employment to be introduced. We are so hidebound by the legislation it is difficult and risky to employ anyone in our present economy.
We need to build a bigger economic cake in the economy not argue about how carefully slicing the existing cake can solve our problems. It cant.
Cutting the economy and staying afloat by reducing government spending is only one way of solving the problem. And not a very good one either.
What I would like to see would be government sponsored manufacturing grants properly controlled and targeted to be dependant upon real production in the UK.
I am aware of the risks of grant funding and scams. We DO NOT want another Training Agency Scam.
Surely really heavy tax breaks and grants could be used to regenerate some of the industries in the UK that have collapsed whole scale over the last thirty years.
I realise there are risks of fraud etc but if we do nothing then nothing is going to happen to solve the problem.
GOVERNMENT bureaucracy needs to be slashed to allow far easier industrial employment to be introduced. We are so hidebound by the legislation it is difficult and risky to employ anyone in our present economy.
We need to build a bigger economic cake in the economy not argue about how carefully slicing the existing cake can solve our problems. It cant.
Adrian W said:
Stop buying everything from China, India and Eastern Europe and start making it n the UK, start a program of self sufficiency starting with food, Electronics and manufactured goods then tax all imports.
I agree to an extent, but do you remember when we used to make everything here?Do you remember the smog and pollution? I think some things are better imported - in other words, some processes are better exported.
Steffan said:
What I would like to see would be government sponsored manufacturing grants properly controlled and targeted to be dependant upon real production in the UK.
Surely really heavy tax breaks and grants could be used to regenerate some of the industries in the UK that have collapsed whole scale over the last thirty years.
Perhaps better (although much, much more difficult) would be to address the issues that led to those industries failing in the first place. If they can't do that any grants will either be like flogging a dead horse or temporarily reviving something that is destined to fail again.Surely really heavy tax breaks and grants could be used to regenerate some of the industries in the UK that have collapsed whole scale over the last thirty years.
For manufacturing it is a different issue, machines are cheaper than people. Are we to go backwards and scrap machines in favour of people? And would those people mind if minimum wage were removed from legislation to make our products competitive?
Our skills in the UK lie elsewhere, in research and development and engineering and the service industries. The problem is there's too many unskilled people here to employ in those areas. Work out how to usefully employ them and you can be the next Prime Minister.
marsred said:
Work out how to usefully employ them and you can be the next Prime Minister.
I think it is much more likely that our next prime minister will be the one who can work out how to form a power base, how to encourage donations to his party and how to give in to their every demand. I see no reason for it to change from the last 20 odd years.Digga said:
Adrian W said:
Stop buying everything from China, India and Eastern Europe and start making it n the UK, start a program of self sufficiency starting with food, Electronics and manufactured goods then tax all imports.
I agree to an extent, but do you remember when we used to make everything here?Do you remember the smog and pollution? I think some things are better imported - in other words, some processes are better exported.
Digga said:
I agree to an extent, but do you remember when we used to make everything here?
Do you remember the smog and pollution? I think some things are better imported - in other words, some processes are better exported.
This is, of course, one of the problems.Do you remember the smog and pollution? I think some things are better imported - in other words, some processes are better exported.
The potteries were called the potteries because of all the Industrial waste and spoil. The Black Country was called by that name because of the Industrial waste, spoil and the fact that the soot in the atmosphere turned all the buildings and countryside black.
I am not suggesting that we return to the bad old days.
But rather that we use our modern technology to manufacture in volume without pollution.
And thus restore our economy or at least reduce the constant slide towards oblivion.
When I was a school and a new motorcyclist and Royal Enfield, BSA, Francis Barnet, James, Greaves, Ariel, Velocette, Douglas, Vincent, Norton, Triumph, AJS, were all makers in the UK of thre WORLDS finest motorcycles.
Every one of these firms exported all over the world. Constant foreign exchange bolstered the Midland Economy.
NOT ONE REMAINS (Excluding the toys of the rich making a few machines for silly money).
The whole industry went to Japan en masse.
The same is true of our car industry viz Riley, Morris, BMC, Austin, Wolseley, MG, Standard Triumph cars, Hillman, Humber, Sunbeam, Talbot, Roveret all. All gone.
We have to recreate this level of industrial output or continue our economic decline.
Or am I wrong? Is there some other way?
I'm damned sure its not commodity trading, Banking or Money Markets.
Steffan, what is it you find unacceptable about London UK being the world's no.1 financial centre? It's a phenomenal achievement and both directly and indirectly responsible for massive employment and income streams into the country's and individual's coffers.
Please remember, the financial industry existed long before, survived and grew alongside, and will be operating and thriving long after the 'traditional industries' you mention - which have become extinct in the form you wish to try to revive.
Please remember, the financial industry existed long before, survived and grew alongside, and will be operating and thriving long after the 'traditional industries' you mention - which have become extinct in the form you wish to try to revive.
Steffan said:
Digga said:
I agree to an extent, but do you remember when we used to make everything here?
Do you remember the smog and pollution? I think some things are better imported - in other words, some processes are better exported.
This is, of course, one of the problems.Do you remember the smog and pollution? I think some things are better imported - in other words, some processes are better exported.
The potteries were called the potteries because of all the Industrial waste and spoil. The Black Country was called by that name because of the Industrial waste, spoil and the fact that the soot in the atmosphere turned all the buildings and countryside black.
While you are at it why not tell us all that a downside of communications technology is trying to fit the messages into the little containers attached to the carrier pigeons or that a downside of air travel is the need for hydrogen to fill large airships.
The vast majority of industrial processes are squeaky clean compared to the dinosaurs that you seem to think are remotely relevant to today. Even the remaining polluters (by todays standards) are much better than they used to be.
The only reason that you still see large scale pollution in other countries is that they have yet to introduce (can't afford, don't care, green issues not important) the processes that would be used if the same job was done in the UK.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff