Rugby- Wilkinson and Flood
Discussion
A lot of talk at the moment about Wilko and Flood:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/intern...
At the moment jonny wilkinson is playing his socks off in France, and really looks very dangerous. Its clear that mentally he's as focussed as ever- and clearly wants it- look at some of the tackles he's putting at the moment- a try saving tackle in the last minute of a game that's already won!
As for flood- his defense isn't great, but he does make play at the moment!
So Strong points and weaknesses:
Wilko- amazing game reading and positioning (watch where he moves whilst off the ball)- defence that out tackles people 4 stone heavier- huge heart and courage- now making better runs and breaking the line more, although needs to straighten up more. Vey very good at controlling the back line.
Flood- extremely dangerous running, great little off loads- offensively very dangerous, kicking almost as good as Wilko's, perhaps not quite as "perceptive" as wilko (with wathcing the game etc), defensively no where near as strong.
So who would you play where?
Personally Harpe just isn't make a big impact (he's tackling well but has no offensive skill), so perhaps bench him, and put Jonny on at Fly half and flood at inside centre.
Or am i misjudging wilko, and perceivein a Halo effect that just isn't there anymore (despite being the highest points scorer in rugby, and one of the fiercest tacklers)
thoughts?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/intern...
At the moment jonny wilkinson is playing his socks off in France, and really looks very dangerous. Its clear that mentally he's as focussed as ever- and clearly wants it- look at some of the tackles he's putting at the moment- a try saving tackle in the last minute of a game that's already won!
As for flood- his defense isn't great, but he does make play at the moment!
So Strong points and weaknesses:
Wilko- amazing game reading and positioning (watch where he moves whilst off the ball)- defence that out tackles people 4 stone heavier- huge heart and courage- now making better runs and breaking the line more, although needs to straighten up more. Vey very good at controlling the back line.
Flood- extremely dangerous running, great little off loads- offensively very dangerous, kicking almost as good as Wilko's, perhaps not quite as "perceptive" as wilko (with wathcing the game etc), defensively no where near as strong.
So who would you play where?
Personally Harpe just isn't make a big impact (he's tackling well but has no offensive skill), so perhaps bench him, and put Jonny on at Fly half and flood at inside centre.
Or am i misjudging wilko, and perceivein a Halo effect that just isn't there anymore (despite being the highest points scorer in rugby, and one of the fiercest tacklers)
thoughts?
The benefit of Hape (apart from his defence) is that he is a constant threat of a 100kg crash ball.
That has the effect of fixing the defence. This creates space for the back three to run on to Flood's sharp passes. It's no coincidence that the back three have started to find gaps since we started playing two big bruisers at centre.
That has the effect of fixing the defence. This creates space for the back three to run on to Flood's sharp passes. It's no coincidence that the back three have started to find gaps since we started playing two big bruisers at centre.
Overall, Wilkinson is easily better, but I think it's just down to experience. Flood is undoubtedly a brilliant player who's constantly inproved as he's took Wilkinson's position at 10. Flood's kicking, though obviously not as good as Wilkinson's, is still very good. There aren't many kicks that he misses.
I personally don't think there's a better England player than Flood to have replaced Wilkinson. It's still nice to have Wilkinson on the bench as a sort of insurance policy if Flood were to get injured though, such as the France game.
ETA - Is it just me that's noticed Flood seems to work very well with Ashton? Everytime Flood makes a break through the the opposition's back line, Ashton is always there in support, and Flood knows that he'll be there every time. It's something that's very good to see considering how well Ashton has been playing lately.
I personally don't think there's a better England player than Flood to have replaced Wilkinson. It's still nice to have Wilkinson on the bench as a sort of insurance policy if Flood were to get injured though, such as the France game.
ETA - Is it just me that's noticed Flood seems to work very well with Ashton? Everytime Flood makes a break through the the opposition's back line, Ashton is always there in support, and Flood knows that he'll be there every time. It's something that's very good to see considering how well Ashton has been playing lately.
Edited by Egg Chaser on Thursday 10th March 00:54
Didnt I try and have this conversation 2 months ago? 
Flood and Youngs make each look good as they are club teammates. They play together week in-week out, they know each others games. Ashton and Foden do a similar thing at Saints and play almost as a single unit. Combine those 2 pairings of similar aged guys, similar experiences and from the 2 rival clubs in the Midlands so they absolutely know each other...well you have a very potent mix. England are a different outfit with 4 guys in the Backs who are intimately familiar with each other. As another poster has mentioned, Hape and Tindall fix an opposition centre with the crash ball threat, that creates space, esp when Youngs and flood have generated quick ball.
Now freeze the game.
The England Pack in its new heavyweight and dynamic guise has just punched a 10m hole infield. First forward line of defence is broken, so the defending Pack is mixed in the ruck-maul that has stopped your drive. Your secondary Pack screening line behind the defending ruck/maul is therefore composed not of the theoretical back row, but a mix, may a flanker, a prop and a Lock. Suddenly that screening line isnt quick and heavy. Youngs then immediately has the chance to dart forward himself and make extra ground, or he goes quick and passes and knows Flood will offload quickly aswell.
The opposition centres are fixed on Hape and Tindall.
The opposition back line is therefore splintered between 2 pods...around the ruck/maul that is still sorting itself and around the centres...which means there is a vulnerable gap either side of the opposition fly half but without the probability of an opposition flanker covering it. It is that gap that Ashton has exploited frequently...and he does it with Saints aswell. Of course you have a covering fullback, but you have Ashton at full pace, so its either back Ashton to round him or...offload to foden who hs read his mind and knows exactly the line he is going to take.
That is the inside ball ploy England have been using successfully with Ashton. It stems though from having an England Pack which can do that initial damage with heavyweight and incisive dynamic play. It is something we have lacked for a while.
Flood and Youngs make each look good as they are club teammates. They play together week in-week out, they know each others games. Ashton and Foden do a similar thing at Saints and play almost as a single unit. Combine those 2 pairings of similar aged guys, similar experiences and from the 2 rival clubs in the Midlands so they absolutely know each other...well you have a very potent mix. England are a different outfit with 4 guys in the Backs who are intimately familiar with each other. As another poster has mentioned, Hape and Tindall fix an opposition centre with the crash ball threat, that creates space, esp when Youngs and flood have generated quick ball.
Now freeze the game.
The England Pack in its new heavyweight and dynamic guise has just punched a 10m hole infield. First forward line of defence is broken, so the defending Pack is mixed in the ruck-maul that has stopped your drive. Your secondary Pack screening line behind the defending ruck/maul is therefore composed not of the theoretical back row, but a mix, may a flanker, a prop and a Lock. Suddenly that screening line isnt quick and heavy. Youngs then immediately has the chance to dart forward himself and make extra ground, or he goes quick and passes and knows Flood will offload quickly aswell.
The opposition centres are fixed on Hape and Tindall.
The opposition back line is therefore splintered between 2 pods...around the ruck/maul that is still sorting itself and around the centres...which means there is a vulnerable gap either side of the opposition fly half but without the probability of an opposition flanker covering it. It is that gap that Ashton has exploited frequently...and he does it with Saints aswell. Of course you have a covering fullback, but you have Ashton at full pace, so its either back Ashton to round him or...offload to foden who hs read his mind and knows exactly the line he is going to take.
That is the inside ball ploy England have been using successfully with Ashton. It stems though from having an England Pack which can do that initial damage with heavyweight and incisive dynamic play. It is something we have lacked for a while.
I was talking to a couple of players about this recently - they had an interesting angle
"Thompson, Wilkinson Shaw on the bench - f
k me I must be good" - gives them a great deal of confidence that the job will be done.
Personally I think Flood (and Cueto for that matter) has been a revelation since the autumn.
"Thompson, Wilkinson Shaw on the bench - f
k me I must be good" - gives them a great deal of confidence that the job will be done.Personally I think Flood (and Cueto for that matter) has been a revelation since the autumn.
Admittedly I haven’t seen much of JW playing for Toulon but have heard he’s had a stormer of a season. Simply put I think Flood is the future at 25 baring injuries he’s going to be in the England set up for at least the next 2 world cups? JW on the other hand will be 32 at the time of the world cup and has been blighted with injuries throughout his career so my thinking would be to let Flood get as much test match level experience in for this world cup. JW knows the end is neigh to his international career as he’s signed to be in France after the ‘have to play at home rule’ comes in after this world cup.
Personally I like the forward thinking that has been shown in giving players a chance and sticking with them, on the other hand I’ve always thought the national side should be picked on form which has often not been the case. Not a huge fan of Tindall or Hape but they seem to do the job they were intended to do very well.
An interesting question , do Lawes and Croft come straight back in?
Personally I like the forward thinking that has been shown in giving players a chance and sticking with them, on the other hand I’ve always thought the national side should be picked on form which has often not been the case. Not a huge fan of Tindall or Hape but they seem to do the job they were intended to do very well.
An interesting question , do Lawes and Croft come straight back in?
desolate said:
I was talking to a couple of players about this recently - they had an interesting angle
"Thompson, Wilkinson Shaw on the bench - fk me I must be good" - gives them a great deal of confidence that the job will be done.
Personally I think Flood (and Cueto for that matter) has been a revelation since the autumn.
Id argue the case with keeping Steveo and Shaws on the bench...never been a great fan of Simon Shaw. The man must have given more penalties away in an England shirt than Johnson, Moores and Dooley combined!"Thompson, Wilkinson Shaw on the bench - f
k me I must be good" - gives them a great deal of confidence that the job will be done.Personally I think Flood (and Cueto for that matter) has been a revelation since the autumn.
And yes Wilkinson has been on fire for Toulon. With Youngs and Flood working so well, having Wilkinson on the bench as an impact sub from 60-70mins is fantastic.
Edited by DJC on Thursday 10th March 16:19
DJC said:
Id argue the case with keeping Steveo and Shaws on the bench...never been a great fan of Simon Shaw. The man must have given more penalties away in an England shirt than Johnson, Moores and Dooley combined!
And yes Wilkinson has been on fire for Toulon. With Youngs and Flood working so well, having Wilkinson on the bench as an impact sub from 60-70mins is fantastic.
When fit I'd pick Lawes for (probably) Deacon, who drops back to the bench. God knows what the best back row is, but when Croft and Moody are back and there's at least 6 that would do the job.And yes Wilkinson has been on fire for Toulon. With Youngs and Flood working so well, having Wilkinson on the bench as an impact sub from 60-70mins is fantastic.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 10th March 16:19
With Thompson in the front row for the first half against SA it may have been a little different, but Hartley did the job in a pretty brutal game against the French.
I'd stick with this bunch all the way through to NZ now - can't see any clear cut replacements for any of them.
pugwash4x4 said:
egg chaser- thing is, if wilko is so much better than Flood then why isn't he starting?
Good point. I think it's just that Martin Johnson wants to give Flood more experience of playing 10 at an international level. Obviously Flood doesn't have the experience that Wilkinson has, but given more experience he could easily prove to be a much better player than Wilkinson. He's already shown that he has the potential, and I think Martin Johnson is just trying to bring this potential out by giving him more game time. He's undoubtedly a brilliant player and works incredibly well with the rest of the England back line, but there's always potential for improvement - he's still quite young after all. That's just my opinion anyway Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff