Are NA engines going to soon be a thing of the past?
Discussion
Hi all. Me and a guy at work have just been trying to name diesel cars that are not forced induction. I know they exist because my sister's lacklustre Peugeot is a non turbocharged 1.9 diesel but to be honest we couldn't name that many.
Now, it seems under pressure of emissions regulations becoming more and more stringent; economy becoming increasingly important and car's becoming increasingly larger and heavier that engineers are having to make engines more economical, "cleaner" and more powerful all at the same time. You only have to look at the VAG TSi engines to see how small capacity engines are progressing. And it seems that forced induction, in everyday cars at least, will soon become to rule rather than the exception...
I put it to the PH faithful do you ever think there will be a day, and how far away is that day, that Normally Aspirated engines in everyday cars (and maybe in your supercars too) will become a thing of the past and virtually everything will become turbo/supercharged or rely on some sort of advanced VVT system, rather than "traditional" NA engines? Seems to me as a shame, but in many ways probably an inevitability in the long term...
Cheers
jimbob
Now, it seems under pressure of emissions regulations becoming more and more stringent; economy becoming increasingly important and car's becoming increasingly larger and heavier that engineers are having to make engines more economical, "cleaner" and more powerful all at the same time. You only have to look at the VAG TSi engines to see how small capacity engines are progressing. And it seems that forced induction, in everyday cars at least, will soon become to rule rather than the exception...
I put it to the PH faithful do you ever think there will be a day, and how far away is that day, that Normally Aspirated engines in everyday cars (and maybe in your supercars too) will become a thing of the past and virtually everything will become turbo/supercharged or rely on some sort of advanced VVT system, rather than "traditional" NA engines? Seems to me as a shame, but in many ways probably an inevitability in the long term...
Cheers
jimbob
ellipsis said:
This thread will run.
The days of the NA engine are by and large numbered. Efficiency is King.
My children will one day laugh at the word 'Turbo' being used solely in association with performance cars.
Those were the days.
Motorcycle engines, I hope and expect, will continue to be NA.
I am trawling google as we speak tring to find some hard numbers on cars sold/available for sale/produced (etc) and their engine type but to no avail...The days of the NA engine are by and large numbered. Efficiency is King.
My children will one day laugh at the word 'Turbo' being used solely in association with performance cars.
Those were the days.
Motorcycle engines, I hope and expect, will continue to be NA.
Google appears to be failing me...
It already happening.
Run of the mill car - Renault Clio. You've got two petrol engine choices, 1.2 16v with 75hp, and 1.2TCE (same engine turboed) with 100hp. The old 1.4 is gone, and the 1.6VVT is automatic only.
Ford are dumping most of their engines for the EcoBoost engines.
Vauxhall killed the N/A 1.8 and 2.0 engines and have replaced with a 1.4 or 1.6 Turbo.
Euro5 is killing a lot of NA engines.
Run of the mill car - Renault Clio. You've got two petrol engine choices, 1.2 16v with 75hp, and 1.2TCE (same engine turboed) with 100hp. The old 1.4 is gone, and the 1.6VVT is automatic only.
Ford are dumping most of their engines for the EcoBoost engines.
Vauxhall killed the N/A 1.8 and 2.0 engines and have replaced with a 1.4 or 1.6 Turbo.
Euro5 is killing a lot of NA engines.
HellDiver said:
It already happening.
Run of the mill car - Renault Clio. You've got two petrol engine choices, 1.2 16v with 75hp, and 1.2TCE (same engine turboed) with 100hp. The old 1.4 is gone, and the 1.6VVT is automatic only.
Ford are dumping most of their engines for the EcoBoost engines.
Vauxhall killed the N/A 1.8 and 2.0 engines and have replaced with a 1.4 or 1.6 Turbo.
Euro5 is killing a lot of NA engines.
My point exactly is that in the last 3 or 4 years we have started to see it happening...Run of the mill car - Renault Clio. You've got two petrol engine choices, 1.2 16v with 75hp, and 1.2TCE (same engine turboed) with 100hp. The old 1.4 is gone, and the 1.6VVT is automatic only.
Ford are dumping most of their engines for the EcoBoost engines.
Vauxhall killed the N/A 1.8 and 2.0 engines and have replaced with a 1.4 or 1.6 Turbo.
Euro5 is killing a lot of NA engines.
There is definitely a move to turbocharging, and it's very obvious! Other than perhaps at Ferrari... (or Porsche actually; despite always having turbo and the GT2 on the lineup for somewhile the Boxster, Cayman and other 911s are all N/A).
I sincerely hope that the move to turbocharging for performance petrol engines doesn't bring poorer throttle response with it. I've yet to drive any modern turbocharged petrol engine that has decent throttle response. The 135i for instance - BMW have clearly worked like crazy to make it feel as good as a n/a engine, but the top of pedal response is dreadful! I bought a n/a 3.0 litre engined BMW instead with less power because it was nicer to drive...
I sincerely hope that the move to turbocharging for performance petrol engines doesn't bring poorer throttle response with it. I've yet to drive any modern turbocharged petrol engine that has decent throttle response. The 135i for instance - BMW have clearly worked like crazy to make it feel as good as a n/a engine, but the top of pedal response is dreadful! I bought a n/a 3.0 litre engined BMW instead with less power because it was nicer to drive...
RobM77 said:
There is definitely a move to turbocharging, and it's very obvious! Other than perhaps at Ferrari... (or Porsche actually; despite always having turbo and the GT2 on the lineup for somewhile the Boxster, Cayman and other 911s are all N/A).
I sincerely hope that the move to turbocharging for performance petrol engines doesn't bring poorer throttle response with it. I've yet to drive any modern turbocharged petrol engine that has decent throttle response. The 135i for instance - BMW have clearly worked like crazy to make it feel as good as a n/a engine, but the top of pedal response is dreadful! I bought a n/a 3.0 litre engined BMW instead with less power because it was nicer to drive...
I drove a 335i once and was not impressed with the throttle (most of the other stuff on the car was pretty awesome though). There was lag, and it was pretty quite for a V6I sincerely hope that the move to turbocharging for performance petrol engines doesn't bring poorer throttle response with it. I've yet to drive any modern turbocharged petrol engine that has decent throttle response. The 135i for instance - BMW have clearly worked like crazy to make it feel as good as a n/a engine, but the top of pedal response is dreadful! I bought a n/a 3.0 litre engined BMW instead with less power because it was nicer to drive...
I drive and RX-8 (R3) and the response on that is amazing, it's instant and you really do drive on the throttle more, ppl often think my car is faster than it really is due to the way it responds to my right foot.
Harji said:
RobM77 said:
There is definitely a move to turbocharging, and it's very obvious! Other than perhaps at Ferrari... (or Porsche actually; despite always having turbo and the GT2 on the lineup for somewhile the Boxster, Cayman and other 911s are all N/A).
I sincerely hope that the move to turbocharging for performance petrol engines doesn't bring poorer throttle response with it. I've yet to drive any modern turbocharged petrol engine that has decent throttle response. The 135i for instance - BMW have clearly worked like crazy to make it feel as good as a n/a engine, but the top of pedal response is dreadful! I bought a n/a 3.0 litre engined BMW instead with less power because it was nicer to drive...
I drove a 335i once and was not impressed with the throttle (most of the other stuff on the car was pretty awesome though). There was lag, and it was pretty quite for a V6I sincerely hope that the move to turbocharging for performance petrol engines doesn't bring poorer throttle response with it. I've yet to drive any modern turbocharged petrol engine that has decent throttle response. The 135i for instance - BMW have clearly worked like crazy to make it feel as good as a n/a engine, but the top of pedal response is dreadful! I bought a n/a 3.0 litre engined BMW instead with less power because it was nicer to drive...
I drive and RX-8 (R3) and the response on that is amazing, it's instant and you really do drive on the throttle more, ppl often think my car is faster than it really is due to the way it responds to my right foot.
RicksAlfas said:
Is that one of those quiet V6s where all the cylinders are in-line?
Darn it twice! My apologies for being a bit of a tool today! Mind you, when I drove it (about 2 years ago) it was my brother in laws and he was telling me it was a V6. I'm not too hot on BMWs (though you'd never guess), so next time I go round I'm going to have to have a word with him?ImDesigner said:
Ahh, the car enthusiast who never opens the bonnet. 
TBH he was gushing about the car, it was a couple of days new to him at the time, all I was thinking was "am I going to drive it?" (I did) and is it a 3.5L BMW? (like I said, I'm not really into BMW's) BTW I know it's not 3.5L.
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