What are the odds - General strike
Discussion
The Public Sector employees are seething with anger, Unions are already quietly talking of 'action'. Is it possible or even likely that a General Strike is on the cards this year? I think its very likely and the publicised gap between highly paid and public pay is simply feeding the anger. Just my thoughts.
crankedup said:
The Public Sector employees are seething with anger, Unions are already quietly talking of 'action'. Is it possible or even likely that a General Strike is on the cards this year? I think its very likely and the publicised gap between highly paid and public pay is simply feeding the anger. Just my thoughts.
Dream on, comrade. When push comes to shove, the ones with the sense they were born with will realise that the gap between public pay and no pay is the one they're more likely to be considering, and why put yourself in a position of withdrawing your labour only to highlight the fact the country can get by without you?
eharding said:
crankedup said:
The Public Sector employees are seething with anger, Unions are already quietly talking of 'action'. Is it possible or even likely that a General Strike is on the cards this year? I think its very likely and the publicised gap between highly paid and public pay is simply feeding the anger. Just my thoughts.
Dream on, comrade. When push comes to shove, the ones with the sense they were born with will realise that the gap between public pay and no pay is the one they're more likely to be considering, and why put yourself in a position of withdrawing your labour only to highlight the fact the country can get by without you?
crankedup said:
the publicised gap between highly paid and public pay is simply feeding the anger. Just my thoughts.
not as angry as the difference between public sector and private sector is making the majority of the country. We've had enough of paying for public sector largesse- where they have no responsibility, no risk, no need to work particularly hard, get paid more, and have a lovely pension that we have to pay for.
Hopefully the whole public sector will go on strike, and we'll realise just how superfluous MANY of them are. We will finally realise how important the key workers are and they can be paid well, the rest of us can save some tax and earn more.
bring it on- maggie broke the unions, hopefully CMD can break the public zector
IMHO its very doubtful, for every person willing to go out on strike, you'll have several who wont and several more who would be more than happy to do the jobs of the people on strike.
It’s amazing how people don’t seem to learn from the past . . . . . .as a country we had this nonsense shortly after the last labour government bankrupted the UK, then the feckless blamed Baroness Thatcher for labours mistakes, the only difference is that this time it will be Cameron’s fault (apart from parts of the North East, where the tragically thick troglodytes will still be blaming Thatcher)
It’s amazing how people don’t seem to learn from the past . . . . . .as a country we had this nonsense shortly after the last labour government bankrupted the UK, then the feckless blamed Baroness Thatcher for labours mistakes, the only difference is that this time it will be Cameron’s fault (apart from parts of the North East, where the tragically thick troglodytes will still be blaming Thatcher)
crankedup said:
The Public Sector employees are seething with anger, Unions are already quietly talking of 'action'. Is it possible or even likely that a General Strike is on the cards this year? I think its very likely and the publicised gap between highly paid and public pay is simply feeding the anger. Just my thoughts.
The gap that means outside the south east the total pay and benefits package of the public sector comfortable exceeds that of the private sector?No surprises thus far in the replies, rather than a General strike perhaps we are more likely to see a co-ordinated series of strikes between various sections of public service which will be designed to have maximum disruptive impact, this is far more likely plan of action I would have thought. Over to you Comrades.
JagLover said:
The gap that means outside the south east the total pay and benefits package of the public sector comfortable exceeds that of the private sector?
TBH I really have not much idea of what earnings are in the public sector, other then my own Council area in Suffolk, where I try to keep up with what I am paying for locally. I read/see the news on the issues faced by the public sector and see their main argument is the changes to the pensions scheme they have.crankedup said:
Rather than a General strike perhaps we are more likely to see a co-ordinated series of strikes between various sections of public service which will be designed to have maximum disruptive impact
Given the number of services that have been outsourced, as long as your passport is up to date and you don’t need to use public transport, I can’t see the unions / labour party having any great effect . . . it's more likely that the public will simply get bored with it and offer little in the way of support.On a more amusing note, having had 3 or so years of dedicated “banker bashing” from the unions/labour party, you’ll never guess who was canvasing for new members in the loby of one of the largest banks in the UK this morning . . . . . . .. Unison
I was laughing so hard, I almost didn’t give them abuse!General Strike is a misnomer. What has happened before is that workers in certain industries have gone on strike and this has put enormous pressure on the government. We’ve come close to one once or twice since the war.
The 84 miners’ strike was an attempt by Scargill for a political strike to topple the government. It failed but not through the way it was policed but more through the fact that the TUC kept its distance. It gave lots of verbal support, especially in the early stages, but steadfastly refused to do anything helpful towards the miners themselves.
Various reasons for this have been put forward in the intervening years but none of them convincing, nor have any gained across the board acceptance. Some suggest the fact that the miners had already succeeded in pulling down one government was enough for anyone. There is some dispute as to whether Heath’s collapse was due to the miners or him reading the likely outcome of a general election just about as wrong as you could get.
Also, the TUC was becoming part of the establishment and gaining political power. It had an effective lobby. Some suggest it did not want to rock the boat and also that the leaders could see that the economic outcome of total victory of the miners could harm workers generally. Certainly the miners gave the impression that they were an elite amongst the working class (after their first strike, in the early 70s, they became one of the highest paid workers in the country) and this might have limited the sympathy others had.
I don’t know. All I do know is that those in my family who were a little to the left were equally stunned. By the late summer they told me it was all over and it was just the clearing up that was left. It took another seven or eight months but they were, in essence, spot on.
What was surprising, at least to me, was the fact that the steelworkers refused to support the miners despite the fact that when they needed help the miners came in guns blazing.
What would we need now to get a general strike? There is no massive industrial complex to attack. But that doesn't mean the coutnry is invulerable. Firstly the fuel lobby, secondly the power workers. Then there’s transport. Trains and tubes stopping and a lack of fuel is an incendiary mix. Precious few public service workers.
In Brighton the solicitors went on strike for a day. It was hilarious. No one noticed. But we’ll notice another 3-day week.
What is also required is a government that is generally disliked and has lost public support. This did not happen to Thatcher until the Poll Tax riots. They cost her her job. She blamed her cabinet but in fact it was due to her massive misjudgement and all of a sudden her magic was gone. Up until then the public were on her side. I was a big supporter of Poll Tax. I thought it fair, despite having four adults in my house. But I was also aware that she blew it big time.
Cameron has not filled the country with confidence in his leadership. The fear is that as soon as lorries start to clutter the motorways he will back down and so show himself as weak. That's when people go for the throat. The students are a bit pissed off, as are the public sector.
Unions have largely had their power reduced over the years and are, in the main, a spent force. They will probably gain membership during the coming cuts but that will be too late for them to take a leading role, at least at the moment. The next time . . . What will start the problems is the lack of fuel, food prices shooting up and power supplies being disrupted.
Business will put pressure on the government as they will be losing money. It will be 1972 all over again.
Whether you can call national strikes of essential workers a General Strike is a matter of semantics. I don’t think it matters as the result will be the same.
The odds? A bit less than evens at the moment. Much will depend on north Africa and the Middle East. The good thing for Cameron is that summer's coming. But then, it doesn't last long.
The 84 miners’ strike was an attempt by Scargill for a political strike to topple the government. It failed but not through the way it was policed but more through the fact that the TUC kept its distance. It gave lots of verbal support, especially in the early stages, but steadfastly refused to do anything helpful towards the miners themselves.
Various reasons for this have been put forward in the intervening years but none of them convincing, nor have any gained across the board acceptance. Some suggest the fact that the miners had already succeeded in pulling down one government was enough for anyone. There is some dispute as to whether Heath’s collapse was due to the miners or him reading the likely outcome of a general election just about as wrong as you could get.
Also, the TUC was becoming part of the establishment and gaining political power. It had an effective lobby. Some suggest it did not want to rock the boat and also that the leaders could see that the economic outcome of total victory of the miners could harm workers generally. Certainly the miners gave the impression that they were an elite amongst the working class (after their first strike, in the early 70s, they became one of the highest paid workers in the country) and this might have limited the sympathy others had.
I don’t know. All I do know is that those in my family who were a little to the left were equally stunned. By the late summer they told me it was all over and it was just the clearing up that was left. It took another seven or eight months but they were, in essence, spot on.
What was surprising, at least to me, was the fact that the steelworkers refused to support the miners despite the fact that when they needed help the miners came in guns blazing.
What would we need now to get a general strike? There is no massive industrial complex to attack. But that doesn't mean the coutnry is invulerable. Firstly the fuel lobby, secondly the power workers. Then there’s transport. Trains and tubes stopping and a lack of fuel is an incendiary mix. Precious few public service workers.
In Brighton the solicitors went on strike for a day. It was hilarious. No one noticed. But we’ll notice another 3-day week.
What is also required is a government that is generally disliked and has lost public support. This did not happen to Thatcher until the Poll Tax riots. They cost her her job. She blamed her cabinet but in fact it was due to her massive misjudgement and all of a sudden her magic was gone. Up until then the public were on her side. I was a big supporter of Poll Tax. I thought it fair, despite having four adults in my house. But I was also aware that she blew it big time.
Cameron has not filled the country with confidence in his leadership. The fear is that as soon as lorries start to clutter the motorways he will back down and so show himself as weak. That's when people go for the throat. The students are a bit pissed off, as are the public sector.
Unions have largely had their power reduced over the years and are, in the main, a spent force. They will probably gain membership during the coming cuts but that will be too late for them to take a leading role, at least at the moment. The next time . . . What will start the problems is the lack of fuel, food prices shooting up and power supplies being disrupted.
Business will put pressure on the government as they will be losing money. It will be 1972 all over again.
Whether you can call national strikes of essential workers a General Strike is a matter of semantics. I don’t think it matters as the result will be the same.
The odds? A bit less than evens at the moment. Much will depend on north Africa and the Middle East. The good thing for Cameron is that summer's coming. But then, it doesn't last long.
AndrewW-G said:
Given the number of services that have been outsourced, as long as your passport is up to date and you don’t need to use public transport, I can’t see the unions / labour party having any great effect . . .
Hmmm...schools shut, crematoria going cold, air traffic not being controlled, courts not sitting, water quality not being assured, bins (and very quickly streets) over-flowing, drains backing up, pests multiplying, births/marriages/deaths unregisterable.... might be a bit more inconvenient than you imagine 
When someone is doing some DIY without power tools, they'll get by with manual saws and hand sanding.
Someone will offer them some power tools, this makes their life easier
However, they will be reluctant to go back to doing DIY without power tools. So when it comes round to doing it again, they'll refuse or pretend to struggle.
Someone will offer them some power tools, this makes their life easier
However, they will be reluctant to go back to doing DIY without power tools. So when it comes round to doing it again, they'll refuse or pretend to struggle.
Pupp said:
Hmmm...schools shut, crematoria going cold, air traffic not being controlled, courts not sitting, water quality not being assured, bins (and very quickly streets) over-flowing, drains backing up, pests multiplying, births/marriages/deaths unregisterable.... might be a bit more inconvenient than you imagine
Many public sector workers know they are well off, and many will not be able to afford to strike because of lifestyle and debts.There seems to be an idealistic view of public sector workers as downtrodden, poorly paid people, when the reality is their pay is greater than the private sector and, in most cases, their benefits including pensions are better.
Frankly, my view is that your average public sector worker knows they are doing alright, and won't strike.
maniac0796 said:
When someone is doing some DIY without power tools, they'll get by with manual saws and hand sanding.
Someone will offer them some power tools, this makes their life easier
However, they will be reluctant to go back to doing DIY without power tools. So when it comes round to doing it again, they'll refuse or pretend to struggle.
Very deep, in fact, too deep for me!Someone will offer them some power tools, this makes their life easier
However, they will be reluctant to go back to doing DIY without power tools. So when it comes round to doing it again, they'll refuse or pretend to struggle.
Pupp said:
maniac0796 said:
So when it comes round to doing it again, they'll refuse or pretend to struggle.
You are Eric Cantona and I claim my £5 
Pupp said:
AndrewW-G said:
Given the number of services that have been outsourced, as long as your passport is up to date and you don’t need to use public transport, I can’t see the unions / labour party having any great effect . . .
Hmmm...schools shut, crematoria going cold, air traffic not being controlled, courts not sitting, water quality not being assured, bins (and very quickly streets) over-flowing, drains backing up, pests multiplying, births/marriages/deaths unregisterable.... might be a bit more inconvenient than you imagine Schools 8/10(if you have children)
Air traffic 9/10
Courts 5/10
Bins 0/10 - service outsourced
Drains .5/10
Pests 1/10
Fire 2/10
Ambulance 10/10
Council admin staff
HMRC - please see above
Passport office 4/10
Tube people 2/10 will only be a problem if you happen to be in the city of the damned
Registry office 2/10 - still recorded by hospital / doctor
social services - office staff 3/10, care worker 10/10 . . . . . .having met some, would be surprised if any walked out.
Police - flippant comment would be "who would notice" none flippant would be they would be noticed, but would be OK with only police on beat working and admin / none front line out on strike
With many other depts., you would struggle to see a difference if the strike was only for a few weeks.
AndrewW-G said:
Out of 10 with 10 being disruptive:
Schools 8/10(if you have children)
Air traffic 9/10
Courts 5/10
Bins 0/10 - service outsourced
Drains .5/10
Pests 1/10
Fire 2/10
Ambulance 10/10
Council admin staff
HMRC - please see above
Passport office 4/10
Tube people 2/10 will only be a problem if you happen to be in the city of the damned
Registry office 2/10 - still recorded by hospital / doctor
social services - office staff 3/10, care worker 10/10 . . . . . .having met some, would be surprised if any walked out.
Police - flippant comment would be "who would notice" none flippant would be they would be noticed, but would be OK with only police on beat working and admin / none front line out on strike
With many other depts., you would struggle to see a difference if the strike was only for a few weeks.
Let's take just two of those:Schools 8/10(if you have children)
Air traffic 9/10
Courts 5/10
Bins 0/10 - service outsourced
Drains .5/10
Pests 1/10
Fire 2/10
Ambulance 10/10
Council admin staff
HMRC - please see above
Passport office 4/10
Tube people 2/10 will only be a problem if you happen to be in the city of the damned
Registry office 2/10 - still recorded by hospital / doctor
social services - office staff 3/10, care worker 10/10 . . . . . .having met some, would be surprised if any walked out.
Police - flippant comment would be "who would notice" none flippant would be they would be noticed, but would be OK with only police on beat working and admin / none front line out on strike
With many other depts., you would struggle to see a difference if the strike was only for a few weeks.
Bins - maybe outsourced, mayne not. Many are still run by Council DLOs (who may also do trade waste) but, regardless, where do you think the refuse freighters unload? Ahhh, ermm, yep, landfill or other disposal/recycling sites run or controlled by the public sector...
Hatched/matched/dispatched - you cannot actually legally dispose of a body without the green certificate that the Registrar provides upon receipt of the Doctors' cause of death document. Ever shared living space with a relative's body for any length of time? Suspect the public's threshold on that one might be fairly low...
Pupp said:
Let's take just two of those:
Bins - maybe outsourced, mayne not. Many are still run by Council DLOs (who may also do trade waste) but, regardless, where do you think the refuse freighters unload? Ahhh, ermm, yep, landfill or other disposal/recycling sites run or controlled by the public sector...
Hatched/matched/dispatched - you cannot actually legally dispose of a body without the green certificate that the Registrar provides upon receipt of the Doctors' cause of death document. Ever shared living space with a relative's body for any length of time? Suspect the public's threshold on that one might be fairly low...
I would imagine that the government would have some sort of emergency plan in place for replacing the registrarsBins - maybe outsourced, mayne not. Many are still run by Council DLOs (who may also do trade waste) but, regardless, where do you think the refuse freighters unload? Ahhh, ermm, yep, landfill or other disposal/recycling sites run or controlled by the public sector...
Hatched/matched/dispatched - you cannot actually legally dispose of a body without the green certificate that the Registrar provides upon receipt of the Doctors' cause of death document. Ever shared living space with a relative's body for any length of time? Suspect the public's threshold on that one might be fairly low...
Whilst my knowledge of refuse is limited to my own council and Cheshires, the entire disposal process from wheelie bin to landfill is outsourced
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