Hard top question for track days e46 m3.

[mak]

Ok guys a little ditto on me before i ask my ( what could be a stupid) question I have decided i have been without a toy in the garage for far to long now, convincing myself there is no point in today's camera van ridden roads and what with the price of fuel for any rational thinking to even consider a toy again, but!!!! I cant resist any longer . For my latest weapon of choice i have gone from 911 tt (996) to rs4 (b7) and decided on a Big compromise on budget, a little M3 e46 convertible is all i need stuck in the garage in these uncertain times, budget wise it is a far cry from my original plan . Any way, enough of my waffling so let me get to the point, the car wont be used in the week and only gets used the odd weekend when i get time but i do like the odd track day, i have never seen a convertible on any track days i have done lol so i guess this is down to the obvious reason of chassis flex, but would the hard top solve this problem to a certain extent or is it just for show . Before any one says get a coupe i wont the convertible cus i like em :-).

[Jonboy_t]

I'm not sure the hard top would make a huge amount of difference. This is not based on fact, purely my own opinion, but I think they're only held on with a couple of clips aren't they? If that's right, there's going to be next to no incremental rigidity by adding one as they will only be as good as the little bits of metal clicking them on.

As above, I may be wrong!!!

[mak]

Thanks for the input bud, if that's the case then i think you may be correct and on that basis i might as well ask another question. Has anyone tracked an e46 m3 convertible and managed to have some fun :-) .

[Beardy10]

Think about the centre of gravity.........BMW didn't go to the trouble of putting a carbon roof on the M3 for nothing. A hard top would make the handling significantly worse...all that weight in the worst position possible.

I once went on a BMW organised M/// track day in 2003 (I think)....I had my E46 M3 at the time. The only cars were E46 M3's, E39 M5's and a couple of M Coupes. Apart from one bloke who was just ridiculously quick the average punters in the convertibles were definitely slower than the coupes.

[Cemesis]

But a convertible is alot of fun and will still be fun on the track day with the noise being far more evident. The hardtop won't make the car stiffer on a track but you can still have fun.

If you arn't racing for money, you don't have to be the fastest.

[tjlazer]

Why the hell couldn't you? I track my z4m convertible and it's great. You'd be hard pressed to notice the difference with the coupe from a driving perspective. I suspect it's slightly more pronounced in the e46 but at the end of the day with that engine and the top down you simply won't give two hoots what anyone else is driving!

[mrmr96]

Some trackday operators won't allow convertible's without roll cages. I'd check by asking those TDO's you'd want to use before buying a convertible.

[tjw110]

The hard top on an E46 is light, I can carry it on my own, it's fixed with some serious, heavy duty fixings and makes a massive difference to the structural rigidity of the chassis when on, by no means does this make the vert a comparison to the coupe, it weights 100+ Kgs more, but does make enough of a difference when on

[mak]

tjw110 said:

The hard top on an E46 is light, I can carry it on my own, it's fixed with some serious, heavy duty fixings and makes a massive difference to the structural rigidity of the chassis when on, by no means does this make the vert a comparison to the coupe, it weights 100+ Kgs more, but does make enough of a difference when on

That's a very interesting post, after reading through the replies it would seem i need to make a decision as to my priorities, i guess my title thread would suggest i am biased towards track days but in reality the car will be used on the road more, but the option for a sunday or mid week blast round a track does need to be there . If i where to plumb for a hard top car ( 4 seater just) at the same budget i have set for the m3 it will be an old 911 ( 996). The trouble with pulling a tin top out the garage for a sunday morning rag on the roads is the fact the only fun factor comes from pushing on and in this age of anti speeding enforced by the police means trouble ( i've had my share of bad luck with these idiots) , at least with the option of roof off motoring you can enjoy both a quick blat and easy cruising .

[Nedz]

I have a hard top for my E46 M3 and it does make a considerable difference to the rigidity and feel of the car when its fitted.You always notice it come summer when you remove it,the car feels completely different and you really feel the flex in the chassis esp on rough roads.

As far as using it on track,it wont make the best track car in the world but if you want to then why not.There will always be far worse/less efective/slower cars at your average track day!

The one thing i would say though is that it is and does feel a pretty heavy car and hammering one round a track is seriously going to trash your tyres and brakes(mine weighs over 1800kg with the hardtop fitted!!).

Something to think about maybe before you take one on track.

[Franzino]

tjlazer said:

Why the hell couldn't you? I track my z4m convertible and it's great. You'd be hard pressed to notice the difference with the coupe from a driving perspective. I suspect it's slightly more pronounced in the e46 but at the end of the day with that engine and the top down you simply won't give two hoots what anyone else is driving!

In my opinion a Z4M roadster is much better car on a track then an e46 M3 convertible. The e46 M3 convertible is a heavy car. If you want a convertible that’s not to heavy and performs good on a track; a roadster is a better choice then a 4 seater convertible. A Z4M roadster weighs 1.410kg and that’s only 15kg more then his Z4M Coupe brother. You can feel that the Z4M coupe is more rigid then the roadster on a bumpy track (like The Carousel on the Nürburgring). But the weight difference is not an issue between those two.

In my own personal experience; fitting a hardtop does not make a big difference in chassis rigidity on my Z4M. I think a 4 seater convertible is never going to be the best thing as a track car with or without a hardtop. Besides the more chassis flex, the biggest issue is the weight of a 4 seater convertible. My biggest concern on a track would be the brakes… The standard e46 M3 coupe brake set-up will let you down after a couple of intensive track laps. An e46 M3 convertible is even 160kg heavier then the coupe...

But in the end who cares; you are doing a track day for your own fun and not as a competition to be the fastest of the day. Otherwise you are better of with a M3 GTS or a Porsche GT3

[mat205125]

mak said:

Before any one says get a coupe i wont the convertible cus i like em :-).

Would the budget stretch to a Z4 M Roadster?

Maybe a Boxster S would make a better road/track drop top fun car.

[mak]

mat205125 said:

Would the budget stretch to a Z4 M Roadster?

Maybe a Boxster S would make a better road/track drop top fun car.

Could do with for seats, i realise another world opens up with the 2 seater market but to be honest i've had enough two seaters cars to realize there a bit of a restriction at times.
Thanks for all the opinions guys and i realise the old m3 is gonna be a bit of a bus but i think it will serve me well, who knows! I may revert back to my old ways and spend every other weekend polishing the bloody thing and forget track days all together lol i may also get myself another bike to push the track day urge but until i actually receive the money from a little house renovation i tuck on last year ( about a week from completion) i will just have to keep my eye on the classifieds and stick to the bmw section

[Pugsey]

I had an E46 coupe then a convertible. The coupe was on 19" wheels the convertible on 18"s. The convertible was a much sweeter handling car on good old British B roads - by virtue of the smaller wheels AND slightly (very slightly) more 'flexible' chassis. A coupe on 18"s would have been perfect. I took both on track days and although track days for me are about pure fun not ultimate times I did do some comparisons. There was about a second maybe 1.5 seconds difference - in favour of the coupe. In other words, not a lot. A good driver in a conv. would be faster than an average one in a coupe Frankly both were huge fun. Just go for it!! BUT don't get 19" wheels on a convertible. Just IMHO of course! Put it another way - if you got a convertible and NEVER read an article or had a clue about it being less rigid than the coupe you be as happy as Larry. It's not a loose floppy old thing at all. If you have fun out there then bxgger what anyone else says!!

Edited by Pugsey on Monday 14th March 18:10

[mat205125]

Pugsey said:

Frankly both were huge fun.

This is the key think IMO. If the convertible (with or without hard top) is very close to being as enjoyable as the coupe, then it seems like a good car to go for for road and track.

[gareth h]

Pugsey, you are spot on, I don't know why people bother with 19" rims.

[Pugsey]

gareth h said:

Pugsey, you are spot on, I don't know why people bother with 19" rims.

Drivers wheel size of choice. BUT we're slaves to looks/resale too aren't we - which is why I specced my coupe on 19s KNOWING the 18s were better lol.........................