Discussion
CRB1 said:
Does anyone have any experience of owning/driving one of these?
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Chris.
I drove a Mitsubish IMIEV a couple of weeks ago. Basically it just drives like a really sYour thoughts would be appreciated.
Chris.
t car - in this case a bit like a slow Daewoo Matiz - but with no engine noise. Not sure what the quoted range was but the charge meter dipped significantly over a reasonably short test drive. I've got a test booked with a Leaf on Tuesday - I'm hoping it's much better.
I'd like to know how you get on with the Leaf. I have a test drive with the imiev on Weds and I'll post how I get on. I have had a Mitsi-i for nearly four years so I know the car well.
One of the criteria is tax efficiency. ie. 100% capital allowances against profits and a zero BIK value.
The latter alone is probably worth £1-2k per annum, let alone the minimal running costs. My main concern is the rate of depreciation as the current crop of EV's will undoubtedly be surpassed very quickly by more efficient models. I guess this is the reason for the £5k govt. grant. However the depreciation issue is erased if I choose the contract hire route.
My other issue is this; If better, longer range batteries are in the offing can I pull out the old and 'plug in' the new? This is key.
100 mile range is not good. 200... then you are talking.
No doubt I'll have more Q's before Wednesday.
Chris.
One of the criteria is tax efficiency. ie. 100% capital allowances against profits and a zero BIK value.
The latter alone is probably worth £1-2k per annum, let alone the minimal running costs. My main concern is the rate of depreciation as the current crop of EV's will undoubtedly be surpassed very quickly by more efficient models. I guess this is the reason for the £5k govt. grant. However the depreciation issue is erased if I choose the contract hire route.
My other issue is this; If better, longer range batteries are in the offing can I pull out the old and 'plug in' the new? This is key.
100 mile range is not good. 200... then you are talking.
No doubt I'll have more Q's before Wednesday.
Chris.
Interesting trolling by Pints. Technically correct - electric cars don't have pistons, but I doubt many PH-ers would walk away if they found a free fully charged Tesla on their drive. I certainly wouldn't.
Can't say that I agree with many of the so-called environmental attractions of electric cars, but if Tesla level technology (and performance) filters down to mass market prices through PC-like economies of scale and the price of V-Power continues to head north, it would be crazy to ignore the cost savings. All(!) that is needed now is:
1) longer range
2) faster re-charging from standard domestic power supplies
3) cheaper initial purchase price (£10k - £15k premium for an electric shopping car over its internal combustion sibling, c'mon!)
By the time Le Mans reaches its 100 birthday, I wouldn't rule out a contingent of PH Bright Sparks heading to La Sarthe. Just make sure you secure your power lead from a light-fingered thief
Oh, and something else, "Gassing Station" may need to change it's name...
(edit to remove a comment that adds nothing to my arguments and which the PC brigade may find offensive - one word was deemed worthy of a PH automatic "censored" smilie)
Can't say that I agree with many of the so-called environmental attractions of electric cars, but if Tesla level technology (and performance) filters down to mass market prices through PC-like economies of scale and the price of V-Power continues to head north, it would be crazy to ignore the cost savings. All(!) that is needed now is:
1) longer range
2) faster re-charging from standard domestic power supplies
3) cheaper initial purchase price (£10k - £15k premium for an electric shopping car over its internal combustion sibling, c'mon!)
By the time Le Mans reaches its 100 birthday, I wouldn't rule out a contingent of PH Bright Sparks heading to La Sarthe. Just make sure you secure your power lead from a light-fingered thief
Oh, and something else, "Gassing Station" may need to change it's name...
(edit to remove a comment that adds nothing to my arguments and which the PC brigade may find offensive - one word was deemed worthy of a PH automatic "censored" smilie)
Edited by Sortie 10 on Tuesday 15th March 07:43
CRB1 said:
100 mile range is not good. 200... then you are talking.
No, 200 is still no good. People often spend 10 hours a day behind the wheel, average speed of 50mph and a car would need a range of 500 miles. Two people doing a road trip from Edinburgh to Portsmouth and back in a day would need a range of a thousand miles and charge in only a few hours ready for the next day. Is that do-able? It'd fking need to be, otherwise electric cars are just a waste of R&D resources. None of my current cars will give 500 miles on a tank. I mentioned 200 miles because that's what you'll get from an M5 Touring.
I agree with the point about the speed of re-charging.
Also what happens if you re-charge in France. Can you switch to their voltage...another question for the dealer.
I agree with the point about the speed of re-charging.
Also what happens if you re-charge in France. Can you switch to their voltage...another question for the dealer.
CRB1 said:
None of my current cars will give 500 miles on a tank. I mentioned 200 miles because that's what you'll get from an M5 Touring.
I agree with the point about the speed of re-charging.
Also what happens if you re-charge in France. Can you switch to their voltage...another question for the dealer.
The difference between a 200 mile range on an internal combustion engine and a 200 mile range in an electric car is that you can fill the tank in a real car in a few minutes and drive on. This is not true for an electric car. Did I really have to spell that out??I agree with the point about the speed of re-charging.
Also what happens if you re-charge in France. Can you switch to their voltage...another question for the dealer.
thinfourth2 said:
Electric cars are traditionally hated here as cars that are designed to take you shopping around town are as fast and as exciting as a £150,000 supercar
Or quite plausibly:Pints said:
Heathen. This is PistonHeads, not VoltHeads.
100 years agoPints said:
Heathen. This is horseHeads, not PistonHeads.
100 years ago
Pints said:
Heathen. This is VoltHeads, not PistonHeads.
It's amazing how technology goes in circles. Maybe Asimov was onto something with all that psycho-history stuff...Papa Hotel said:
No, 200 is still no good. People often spend 10 hours a day behind the wheel, average speed of 50mph and a car would need a range of 500 miles. Two people doing a road trip from Edinburgh to Portsmouth and back in a day would need a range of a thousand miles and charge in only a few hours ready for the next day. Is that do-able? It'd fking need to be, otherwise electric cars are just a waste of R&D resources.
Why is a thousand-mile range necessary? How many of these people "often" do 10+ hour driving days? There will always be people who have use-cases on the outer fringes - the vast majority of people commute back and forth to work (typically less than 30 miles), do the odd longer trip on a weekend (generally inside 200 miles) and go on holiday overseas so only need to make it as far as the airport.king need to be, otherwise electric cars are just a waste of R&D resources. For an awful lot of people who have that kind of usage, an electric car could do nicely for their day-to-day driving. If they're making enough savings on fuel, tax, parking, etc then it's not a big hardship to rent a car if you needed to do 1000 miles in one sitting.
I tend to move once a year at the moment and occasionally move big stuff around. That doesn't justify owning a LWB Transit as my daily driver though - I just rent one on the days I need it.
sjg said:
Why is a thousand-mile range necessary? How many of these people "often" do 10+ hour driving days? There will always be people who have use-cases on the outer fringes - the vast majority of people commute back and forth to work (typically less than 30 miles), do the odd longer trip on a weekend (generally inside 200 miles) and go on holiday overseas so only need to make it as far as the airport.
For an awful lot of people who have that kind of usage, an electric car could do nicely for their day-to-day driving. If they're making enough savings on fuel, tax, parking, etc then it's not a big hardship to rent a car if you needed to do 1000 miles in one sitting.
I tend to move once a year at the moment and occasionally move big stuff around. That doesn't justify owning a LWB Transit as my daily driver though - I just rent one on the days I need it.
So we are agreed that from time to time, people will have to do journeys of around 1000 miles? I presume you will agree with me then that the technology needs to exist to make electric cars viable... For an awful lot of people who have that kind of usage, an electric car could do nicely for their day-to-day driving. If they're making enough savings on fuel, tax, parking, etc then it's not a big hardship to rent a car if you needed to do 1000 miles in one sitting.
I tend to move once a year at the moment and occasionally move big stuff around. That doesn't justify owning a LWB Transit as my daily driver though - I just rent one on the days I need it.
Even disregarding distance, take your average taxi driver - assuming 8 hours a day he's not going to be able to stop halfway through his day and charge up the car for several hours, is he? He will need a car that can last that time and more. It's a f
king hefty battery that will keep a car going for that length of time. Manufacturers really have their work cut out to make that viable. Papa Hotel said:
No, 200 is still no good. People often spend 10 hours a day behind the wheel, average speed of 50mph and a car would need a range of 500 miles. Two people doing a road trip from Edinburgh to Portsmouth and back in a day would need a range of a thousand miles and charge in only a few hours ready for the next day. Is that do-able? It'd fking need to be, otherwise electric cars are just a waste of R&D resources.
What sort of an idiot would attempt that in an an electric car? Why would you just not hire one?king need to be, otherwise electric cars are just a waste of R&D resources. Electric cars are ideal commuter/shopper/taking-the-kids-to-school cars. Anyone who attempts anything outside of a car's remit is asking for trouble.
Mr Gear said:
What sort of an idiot would attempt that in an an electric car? Why would you just not hire one?
Electric cars are ideal commuter/shopper/taking-the-kids-to-school cars. Anyone who attempts anything outside of a car's remit is asking for trouble.
Because in the not-too-distant future you won't have a choice... Electric cars are ideal commuter/shopper/taking-the-kids-to-school cars. Anyone who attempts anything outside of a car's remit is asking for trouble.
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