Jail for leaving bags for a few minutes
Discussion
The Daily Telegraph said:
A plumber who left an unattended bag containing a teddy bear, some fruit and clothes in an airport lounge was jailed yesterday for causing a full-scale security alert.
Magistrates sentenced Jose da Silva, 25, to 10 days under public nuisance laws.
Da Silva was waiting for a flight home to Portugal last Sunday when he left the hold-all in a departure lounge while he went for a cigarette at Birmingham nternational airport.
The airport was closed for three hours and 1,000 passengers and staff had to leave as an Army bomb disposal team investigated. Three incoming flights were diverted and 15 planes grounded.
Speaking through an interpreter and in tears, da Silva, who pleaded not guilty to creating a public nuisance, told the court in Solihull that he had no intention of causing such a huge security operation.
But Howard Turner, the chairman of the bench, said while da Silva had not intended to cause the alert the offence was serious enough to warrant a prison sentence.
It is thought to be the first time a jail term has been passed for what was an unwitting, albeit costly, act.
A Birmingham airport spokesman said: "This was an example of the sort of thing that can happen and how it escalates very quickly.
"We take these things very seriously and this was a serious security issue. The sentence reflects that and we would reiterate the dangers of leaving luggage unattended."
It appears that this Portuguese plumber (who was apparently not a colloquial English-speaker) has been made a scapegoat for the paranoia currently being exploited in a variety of ways by the "powers-that-be". Portugal has fairly minimal recent experience of terrorism; a Portuguese national would likely not be aware of how seriously unattended baggage is treated in the UK (*); apparently needing an interpreter (at least in court), it could easily be that the plumber might well not have understood the announcements that were made in the airport (and if he was travelling in company with other Portuguese, he might well not have heard the announcements ... it's a noted fact that you tend not to hear foreign tongues when you are speaking your own).
A jail sentence for this seems unnecessarily harsh when imposed on a foreign national. The phrase, "Pour encourager les autres." (or, "para incentivar o outros") comes to mind.
Streaky
(*) I was struck by the difference in announcements between UK and US airports in regards to unattended baggage. In the USA they tend to be, "Any unattended baggage may be removed." In the UK, they tend to be, "Any unattended baggage will be removed and may be destroyed." Even then, they fail to add, "And the owner banged up for a stretch!"
PS - and before you start in on me about "security", I am in the business of risk management and could quickly list a dozen implements that you are allowed to take on board an aircraft which could be easily used to incapacitate the crew - S
I used to work at Heathrows' T4. We were involved with the 100% baggage screening and I remember having been told on several occasions that 'any suspicious level 3 bag' would be taken away and 'blown up in a controlled explosion' 
The Airport is a very paranoid place to work. Everyone is always looking around and checking, especially after the 911 incident, which was solely responsible for my redundancy there
I also worked there when Dianna Ross came through and was behind her going through security when the whole 'you fondled by boobs' scenario went off - bloody drama queen
The Airport is a very paranoid place to work. Everyone is always looking around and checking, especially after the 911 incident, which was solely responsible for my redundancy there
I also worked there when Dianna Ross came through and was behind her going through security when the whole 'you fondled by boobs' scenario went off - bloody drama queen
I thought it was well over the top to. Maybe, if he'd been british he'd have been cautioned or never been charged. I know this is serious stuff but being a public nuiscence, FFS. I thought that there had to be a degree of intent with most charges. Obviously I was wrong. Feel a bit sorry for him. I wonder if he tried to say who he was when he realised something was wrong?
>> Edited by Boosted LS1 on Friday 7th May 09:08
>> Edited by Boosted LS1 on Friday 7th May 09:08
If he was going out for a gasper, why not take the bag with him? Stupid twat.
Sorry, I've got no sympathy for him, being foreign is no excuse here I'm afraid. He should know there is heightened security.
Heck, they've only banged him up for ten days or something? Bollocks - he gets to see a long lost part of the tourist trail!
Sorry, I've got no sympathy for him, being foreign is no excuse here I'm afraid. He should know there is heightened security.
Heck, they've only banged him up for ten days or something? Bollocks - he gets to see a long lost part of the tourist trail!
GregE240 said:I disagree here, Greg. The "War against Terrorism" is lost, when people don't even have the "freedom" to leave their baggage unattended. The damage made by restrictions in freedom for the people is bigger than that caused by the assassinations immediately.
If he was going out for a gasper, why not take the bag with him? Stupid twat.
Sorry, I've got no sympathy for him, being foreign is no excuse here I'm afraid. He should know there is heightened security.
Heck, they've only banged him up for ten days or something? Bollocks - he gets to see a long lost part of the tourist trail!
It's the paranoid society, that is responsible for the fuss that has been made about the baggage.
Bodo said:
If he was going out for a gasper, why not take the bag with him? Stupid twat.
Sorry, I've got no sympathy for him, being foreign is no excuse here I'm afraid. He should know there is heightened security.
Heck, they've only banged him up for ten days or something? Bollocks - he gets to see a long lost part of the tourist trail!
I disagree here, Greg. The "War against Terrorism" is lost, when people don't even have the "freedom" to leave their baggage unattended. The damage made by restrictions in freedom for the people is bigger than that caused by the assassinations immediately.
It's the paranoid society, that is responsible for the fuss that has been made about the baggage.
Sorry Bodo im with GregE240 here , by now every one should know you do not leave your bags unattended at any time .
But banging him up for 10 days seems excessive , while we are on this subject any one know what happend to the silly bint who claimed to have a bome in her bag ,, also the other silly bint in Newcastle (i think) who claimed the same thing ?
Even before all the bomb scares, only a fool would leave their bags unattended if only out of fear of some bastard stealing them!
I agree that a jail (gaol?) term does seem a little excessive, but by the same token he shouldn't be let off with a pat on the back and a "never mind. No harm done" like some people seem to be implying either.
I agree that a jail (gaol?) term does seem a little excessive, but by the same token he shouldn't be let off with a pat on the back and a "never mind. No harm done" like some people seem to be implying either.
GregE240 said:
If he was going out for a gasper, why not take the bag with him? Stupid twat.
Sorry, I've got no sympathy for him, being foreign is no excuse here I'm afraid. He should know there is heightened security.
Heck, they've only banged him up for ten days or something? Bollocks - he gets to see a long lost part of the tourist trail!
Would you like to be locked up for even one hour in the cells for leaving your heavy bag to take a slash or have fag? Even though you, unlike the foreign bloke, are aware of the current danger? I think NOT!
He is foreign, was not as wide awake to danger perhaps as he should have been, does not speaky English, probably would not understand the written warning signs, and speaking as someone whose first language is not English - those announcements over intercom in airports, train stations etc - are not that easy to understand as the speakers distort!
You have noise interference all around you! You have to concentrate damned hard - and my linguistic capabilities, Russian apart , are fluent (except when you lot try to speak German or French (or Portuguese even 
and I no understandy what the heck you are trying to say! ) The punishment is far too high handed - especially given the explanation for this. Deserved caution and possibly a fine! Did not warrant a short jail sentence and Portuguese media are now having a field day over it. Not done this country any good when our Tony No Mates needs support over Iraq!
WildCat said:
He is foreign, was not as wide awake to danger perhaps as he should have been, does not speaky English, probably would not understand the written warning signs, and speaking as someone whose first language is not English - those announcements over intercom in airports, train stations etc - are not that easy to understand as the speakers distort!
He came from Portugal not Mars
WildCat said:
Would you like to be locked up for even one hour in the cells for leaving your heavy bag to take a slash or have fag? Even though you, unlike the foreign bloke, are aware of the current danger? I think NOT!
Invalid argument that, my old son. I wouldn't be so
stupid as to leave baggage unattended in an airport. I bet you're the sort of bloke who'd cheerfully jest you had a bomb in your luggage too? Leave a bag and not only could it cause a security alert, but some ne'er do well might just stuff drugs into it, making you a carrier to your chosen destination.
Have you ever wondered why at check in they ask if you packed it yourself, and if it has been left unattended?
WildCat said:
He is foreign, was not as wide awake to danger perhaps as he should have been, does not speaky English, probably would not understand the written warning signs, and speaking as someone whose first language is not English - those announcements over intercom in airports, train stations etc - are not that easy to understand as the speakers distort!
Again, rubbish. Are you saying in a Portugese airport that its perfectly alright to leave your luggage while you go for a slash or something?
WildCat said:
The punishment is far too high handed - especially given the explanation for this. Deserved caution and possibly a fine! Did not warrant a short jail sentence and Portuguese media are now having a field day over it. Not done this country any good when our Tony No Mates needs support over Iraq!
If the punishment is custodial then he got what he deserved. Airports rightfully take a dim view of this - delays like this can cost thousands of pounds and knock on effects regarding late aircraft landing and taking off don't bear thinking about.
But hey, it was only a bag, right?
Believe me, if some thick Englander gets a bit of bird in Portugal for leaving bags unattended, I would feel exactly the same.
Bodo said:
I disagree here, Greg. The "War against Terrorism" is lost, when people don't even have the "freedom" to leave their baggage unattended. The damage made by restrictions in freedom for the people is bigger than that caused by the assassinations immediately.
It's the paranoid society, that is responsible for the fuss that has been made about the baggage.
Well, next time you leave a bag at the airport and someone stuffs a few bags of snuff in it and kicks 7 bells out of you the other end for it, blame the war on terror, mate.
Leaving bags unattended was a no-no even before 9/11.
>> Edited by GregE240 on Friday 7th May 12:08
GregE240 said:
Would you like to be locked up for even one hour in the cells for leaving your heavy bag to take a slash or have fag? Even though you, unlike the foreign bloke, are aware of the current danger? I think NOT!
Invalid argument that, my old son. I wouldn't be so
Leave a bag and not only could it cause a security alert, but some ne'er do well might just stuff drugs into it, making you a carrier to your chosen destination.
Have you ever wondered why at check in they ask if you packed it yourself, and if it has been left unattended?
WildCat said:
He is foreign, was not as wide awake to danger perhaps as he should have been, does not speaky English, probably would not understand the written warning signs, and speaking as someone whose first language is not English - those announcements over intercom in airports, train stations etc - are not that easy to understand as the speakers distort!
Again, rubbish. Are you saying in a Portugese airport that its perfectly alright to leave your luggage while you go for a slash or something?
WildCat said:
The punishment is far too high handed - especially given the explanation for this. Deserved caution and possibly a fine! Did not warrant a short jail sentence and Portuguese media are now having a field day over it. Not done this country any good when our Tony No Mates needs support over Iraq!
If the punishment is custodial then he got what he deserved. Airports rightfully take a dim view of this - delays like this can cost thousands of pounds and knock on effects regarding late aircraft landing and taking off don't bear thinking about.
But hey, it was only a bag, right?
Believe me, if some thick Englander gets a bit of bird in Portugal for leaving bags unattended, I would feel exactly the same.
Liebchen - I have probably been through more airports in my short time on the planet than you have taken slashes!
For record - I trig every damned security alert - those metal things they put in my arms and legs after that car crash seem to sound the alerts. It makes my travel arrangements highly entertaining!
and a bit 
(And Ms Ross is right - it is not nice when some are less than gentle - Swiss are the worst!) As for drugs - in my job I carry them all the time! including all the recipes! Again - it makes for my personal entertainment when I go travel on business - but I do have the covering documents. Personally - would never leave my gear unattended - but have seen this carry-on all over the world. I have seen Portuguese, Spaniards, Swiss, Germans, French, Americans, Italians, Austrians do this in airports, train and bus stations. They nip to loo, to drinks machines, to bars. Bags left at chairs in luggage trolleys - unattended. This is since 9/11 as well!
None have been locked up for it! Though after Madrid - perhaps things will now get tighter. You all got steamed up about the planespotters in Greece. Those twazaks were taking photos of latest military aircraft at military base. Greeks were right to get lathered up over it. Had it been RAF - and a Greek planespotter - you would all have taken different attitude yourselves! But at time - UK public opinion - Greeks were
for locking up "innocents!" Portuguese are currently thinking same way as this. Personally - had no sympathy for planespotters then and now. They had not done homework properly and were arrogant to think it OK to lurk around a military base.
But should this bloke get custodial sentence for this? How long was the bag left unclaimed? If we are talking of 10-15 minutes max - over-reaction. If we are talking of Portuguese plumber leaving his luggage for hour or two - then he would deserve this regardless of his lack of linguistic skills.
GregE240 said:I can't follow you there, Greg. Do you think the airport has been closed (in the DT article), because authorities suspected the Portuguese's luggage to be filled with bags of snuff? I think not.
I disagree here, Greg. The "War against Terrorism" is lost, when people don't even have the "freedom" to leave their baggage unattended. The damage made by restrictions in freedom for the people is bigger than that caused by the assassinations immediately.
It's the paranoid society, that is responsible for the fuss that has been made about the baggage.
Well, next time you leave a bag at the airport and someone stuffs a few bags of snuff in it and kicks 7 bells out of you the other end for it, blame the war on terror, mate.
Leaving bags unattended was a no-no even before 9/11.
>> Edited by GregE240 on Friday 7th May 12:08
Being panic about everything that *might* be some sort of terrorist attack/assassination/etc. is an affidavit of means in the conflict between fundamentalists and people of western creed. IMHO the most pathetic way to handle terrorism.
Prison sentence for this, what an absolute farce.
What were the man's intentions? None, I would have thought. Absent minded at worst.
Yet if your a chavscum mugger/drug addict/dealer/thug who terrorises whole communities you get fruck all.
The justice system and those that operate it in this country really have given up on the boring 'old news' traditional crime issues, and only appear to have a go at the issues that are 'easy to deal with' hence prison for this guy for leaving a bag unattended.
Madness.
What were the man's intentions? None, I would have thought. Absent minded at worst.
Yet if your a chavscum mugger/drug addict/dealer/thug who terrorises whole communities you get fruck all.
The justice system and those that operate it in this country really have given up on the boring 'old news' traditional crime issues, and only appear to have a go at the issues that are 'easy to deal with' hence prison for this guy for leaving a bag unattended.
Madness.
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