Senna's misdemeanours

[DrTre]

I'm fairly sure this has been covered before (and not so long ago) but search is proving a bit
unhelpful...

I'm curious to know if I do wear rose tinted specs over Senna, or if history has made him out to be worse than he was?

Would people oblige in listing their views of specific incidents that contribute toward the accusation of cheating/unsportsmanlike behaviour?

Obviously there's "that" incident in 1990 but what else?

[Mr_Thyroid]

Irvine 1993. Although with Irvine it's fairly easy to argue that he probably deserved it.

[Ultuous]

Others that spring to mind are blocking Warwick from moving to Team Lotus in 86 (he may have had a point that the team didn't have the resources to support both drivers) and pushing Prost dangerously close the pit wall during an overtake in Estoril (very similar to Schumacher vs. Rubens last year).

Don't get me wrong, he's still a hero in my mind (even if I considered him to be the 'baddie' when I was a kid! ) and that's what modern day champions are made of (it's no different to how Shuey and Alonso have behaved since, but I don't think the world was quite as desensitised to such 'unsportsman-like' behaviour in those days!)

[skeggysteve]

DrTre said:

Obviously there's "that" incident in 1990 but what else?

I assume you are referring to Senna taking Prost out.

Ask yourself one question about that incident.

If Senna was that good why did he feel the need to do it?

[team underdog]

skeggysteve said:

DrTre said:

Obviously there's "that" incident in 1990 but what else?

I assume you are referring to Senna taking Prost out.

Ask yourself one question about that incident.

If Senna was that good why did he feel the need to do it?

Senna was aggrieved that Belestre had changed pole from the clean side of the grid to the dirtier inside spot. Belestre was French...

Edited by team underdog on Wednesday 16th March 00:31

[entropy]

Intimidated Schumi in 1992/93.

Senna had a funny idea that Schumi should move out of the way.

At a Hockenheim test session Senna impeded Schumi. Schumi retaliated and did the same. Straight afterwards Senna confronted Schumi and swung a punch. Schumi managed to move like butterfly and it was a Benetton mechanic who got stung like a bee!

As been said, Senna lacked class outside the car but my God was he a genius inside a cockpit.

Personally I wasn't enthralled with the idea that Senna be paid $1million when McLaren had at first buy their engines from Ford and then moan how bad the car was when he did minimal testing. When Hakkinen outqualified Senna, Senna wanted to know how he took a particular corner the Finn kept schtum and sent Senna into a fit.

There's some clips of youtube of Senna having his fits in driver briefings and one of him being interviewed by JYS where he looks at JYS with contempt at being criticised for being dangerous.

[mchammer89]

team underdog said:

Senna was aggrieved that Belestre had changed pole from the clean side of the grid to the dirtier inside spot. Belestre was French...

Edited by team underdog on Wednesday 16th March 00:31

Huh?

Pole had always been on that side. Senna was annoyed as he'd gotten pole there before and starting on the dirty side hindered his start. He wanted it change. Fair enough for him to ask, but I don't think anyone was under any obligation to change it down to one man's opinion.

Get your facts right.

[xr287]

entropy said:

There's some clips of youtube of Senna having his fits in driver briefings and one of him being interviewed by JYS where he looks at JYS with contempt at being criticised for being dangerous.

Can you post the links please?

[Gwagon111]

The distance between genius and madness, is measured in success. As with most sporting greats, Senna occasionally overstepped the mark, resulting in him sometimes looking like a bit of a . If you want the rainbow, you have to put up with the rain.

[graememac]

mchammer89 said:

Huh?

Pole had always been on that side. Senna was annoyed as he'd gotten pole there before and starting on the dirty side hindered his start. He wanted it change. Fair enough for him to ask, but I don't think anyone was under any obligation to change it down to one man's opinion.

Get your facts right.

The japanese stewards agreed that it should change, it was Balestre who changed it back later that day.

[Eric Mc]

Gwagon111 said:

The distance between genius and madness, is measured in success. As with most sporting greats, Senna occasionally overstepped the mark, resulting in him sometimes looking like a bit of a . If you want the rainbow, you have to put up with the rain.

Senna set a new set of low standards of behaviour which some of the next generation of drivers emulated.

That is his main legacy to the sport.

Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 16th March 08:34

[DJC]

The other minor point is that far from it being a French conspiracy...Prost and Balestre *hated* each other.

[Stack]

Senna had tons of bust ups as well as the famous ones with Prost

Brake testing Rosberg in the 85 Canadian GP
Collided with Rosberg & took out Piquet 85 European GP
In the Adelaide GP in 85 I seem to rembember him going off 3 times
Collided with Mansell 86 Brazilian GP
Collided with Mansell 87 Belgium GP
Collided with Mansell 90 Estoril GP
Collided with Mansell 92 Adelaide GP

Bit of a theme with Mansell going on here ....

[kimducati]

Stack said:

Senna had tons of bust ups as well as the famous ones with Prost

Brake testing Rosberg in the 85 Canadian GP
Collided with Rosberg & took out Piquet 85 European GP
In the Adelaide GP in 85 I seem to rembember him going off 3 times
Collided with Mansell 86 Brazilian GP
Collided with Mansell 87 Belgium GP
Collided with Mansell 90 Estoril GP
Collided with Mansell 92 Adelaide GP

Bit of a theme with Mansell going on here ....

Senna was well known for 'scaring' people out of the way - Mansell was the ONLY driver on the grid at that time who would NOT back down.
So when Senna put the proposition "Get out of the way, or we crash" to Mansell, they crashed.
For all his faults, Mansell was a fast and gutsy driver, and really deserved more than one world championship IMHO.
Kim

[telecat]

I could never "warm" to Senna. Just did too many things that annoyed me in races. His only good point s were his driving skill and the fact that if he hit you he admitted it.

[Carfolio]

Eric Mc said:

Senna set a new set of low standards of behaviour which some of the next generation of drivers emulated.

That is his main legacy to the sport.

This.

[Stack]

kimducati said:

Senna was well known for 'scaring' people out of the way - Mansell was the ONLY driver on the grid at that time who would NOT back down.
So when Senna put the proposition "Get out of the way, or we crash" to Mansell, they crashed.
For all his faults, Mansell was a fast and gutsy driver, and really deserved more than one world championship IMHO.
Kim

I remember Mansell being interviewed about that famous pass he did in Barcelona 92 ?

Senna said to Mansell "you are f*****g mad" jokingly & Mansell replied no Ayrton you are madder ...

Great days !!

[Gwagon111]

telecat said:

I could never "warm" to Senna. Just did too many things that annoyed me in races. His only good point s were his driving skill and the fact that if he hit you he admitted it.

The fact he went to the aid of a badly injured Eric Comas, with scant regard for his own safety, kind of endeared him to me. That and the tireless charity work he did to support the underprivileged. You just don't see that these days.

Edited by Gwagon111 on Wednesday 16th March 12:31

[entropy]

xr287 said:

Can you post the links please?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko94oniszuA an original clip is about 5mins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49qF32Pazwc

kimducati said:

Senna was well known for 'scaring' people out of the way - Mansell was the ONLY driver on the grid at that time who would NOT back down.
So when Senna put the proposition "Get out of the way, or we crash" to Mansell, they crashed.
For all his faults, Mansell was a fast and gutsy driver, and really deserved more than one world championship IMHO.
Kim

For me the collisions were racing incidents. Both hard racers fighting for the same piece of asphalt.

[CPDMotorsport]

For all of his faults I think we'd all rather watch 24 Sennas racing than 24 corporate drones.

Although a race with 24 Sennas would probably only last about 3 laps before everyone crashed or it was red flagged.