Alfa Romeo JTD - 1.9 & 2.4
Discussion
Right guys.
My thread in GG failed so I need your help.
I need to know as much as possible really - ownership stories would be great.
I'm looking at a 2.4 10v or a 1.9 JTDm.
Info on the various trim levels and how much I should be paying would be helpful.
Are these cars solid up to silly mileages or should I stick to a 'younger' one?
Thanks in advance.
My thread in GG failed so I need your help.
I need to know as much as possible really - ownership stories would be great.
I'm looking at a 2.4 10v or a 1.9 JTDm.
Info on the various trim levels and how much I should be paying would be helpful.
Are these cars solid up to silly mileages or should I stick to a 'younger' one?
Thanks in advance.
Pull up a seat, make a cup of tea, this could be a long one. I'll recite the story of mine.
I got my late 2003 1.9 JTDm Veloce Sportwagon (so full facelift) in February last year to replace a Saab 9-3 SE. Fancied a change, fancied a small estate, fancied a diesel (I know) and truth be told, fancied an Alfa (but not to conform to any 'You Must Own an Alfa at Least Once' stereotype I must add). It's Nero black with the Alfa Tech suede interior, no roof rails but I do have genuine lockable roof bars and Alfa bike racks.
First thing to say is that I went into Alfa and especially 156, ownership with my eyes completely open. I was well read on the issues relating to them and was prepared for them should they arise. And so the story begins.
Looked at many cars, scoured all the classifieds, scoured eBay. They seemed to sell extremely quickly. Looked at a few, prices ranging from suspiciously cheap to eye wateringly expensive. My search was always narrowed to trade sales, not private, always to the 1.9 rather than the 2.4 and had to be Veloce spec. One popped up onto Autotrader one Friday afternoon, I actually rang the guy whilst he was uploading the pictures and arranged to go and see him the next day first thing, which he was a touch surprised at as he was about 200 miles away.
Saw car, liked car, car was good price, car had been serviced and maintained well. HPI check done and a deal was done, picked it up the next week. It was important to me that there was good history with the car and that the timing belt had been done properly. This was all documented. There were some bits on the car that I knew would need attention, those being the thermostat, the brakes, tyres, climate control dials and the service indicator. His garage couldn't remove the service due indicator, but I'd spoken to them on the phone and seen the paperwork so was happy that the work had been done, which was born out by the obviously new oil filter etc. I reset the service indicator before I drove off the forecourt.
Got the car home, sidelight bulb blew which is fun to replace, drove around for a week or so and booked it into my mechanic for a full check over and some work to be done, specifically light service, full brake check, find a small oil leak and thermostat replacement. It turned into light service, front discs and pads with fluid flush through, thermostat with coolant flush through, fix oil leak and new radiator. Rears discs were lipped but okay for more service. The rear pads were nearly new having been replaced at the previous owners last service.
The climate control dials get dry solder joints on the pick ups which means that the temperature can dance all over the place. Easy enough to fix with a soldering iron. I also took the gear linkage apart on top of the box (simple job) and cleaned up and greased. The symptoms are that the gear lever stops returning to centre.
Happy days.
Then I got a screw in one of the tyres so 4 new ones were put on.
Went through an MOT 4 months later with no issues, only advisory being rear handbrake cables, which are a common issue.
Couple of months after than I noticed another leak under the car and investigations found it to be a clear reddy liquid, so that'll be power steering fluid then. You'll get used to checking for leaks. The power steering pipes originally fitted were alloy and were fixed with steel fixings. Sensible (and more of this particular issue later). Corrosion occurs and fluid makes an escape. Booked in for that, nightmare job but all done okay.
By this time I got fed up of the atrocious factory stereo so fitted an aftermarket Kenwood that fitted in quite well with the overall dash, very simple in design and with red illumination. This requires a little bit of work as the OEM stereo is a non standard size, so an adapter is needed. I went a bit further and blended the adapter into the new stereo surround and painted it silver to match the rest of the dash. Much better all round.
Then one day I arrived at work and my colleague mentioned the quite strong smell of diesel outside. Thought nothing of it until we came to leave and the smell of diesel sort of led me to my car. Turned out a plastic duct on top of the engine, low pressure luckily, had broken so diesel was being chucked onto the road and onto the engine. Booked in and fixed for 90 quid. Maybe I could have done it myself but I have an aversion to working on diesel fuel systems.
Fast forward to this week, nothing apart from another couple of blown sidelight bulbs (hateful hateful things). Noticed the rear brakes were squealing so booked in to get those checked and the day before it went in I noticed another leak underneath. Out with the trusty piece of cardboard and it's clear reddy fluid again, so the other power steering pipe has gone. Add it to the job list. Rear brakes (discs and pads) replaced along with handbrake cables without issue. Then it came to the power steering pipe, which was the low pressure one and required the rack to be moved forward to get it into position. This is where the aluminium and steel issue comes into the story again. The rack is aluminium, the bolts are steel. Can you guess what happened? Yes, first bolt took two hours to get out, the second bolt took half a turn and then broke the entire mounting lug off the rack. Oh bother, new rack then.
So that's the story up to now, I'm just awaiting the last bill.
So some thoughts after just over a year of ownership.
Overall I love it. I really 'get' Alfa's. When it is running right it is a joy to own and drive. It looks great, it returns good mileage (high 40's on a short commute). It took four of us from Brighton to northern Holland over New Year in complete comfort.
You have to go into ownership with your eyes open, I believe. The brakes are never going to set the world on fire, the feel is actually quite poor so I have to be a bit careful jumping between the Elise and Alfa. The factory radio is awful, just awful. Non existent radio reception and no integrated iPod connectivity of any worth. Suspension bushes should really be seen as a service item and they don't come as a bush, it's a new arm. Touch wood, mine have been fine. They all tend to squeak as well when they get dry. It is vital to keep an eye on the temp gauge. If it is running cool, below 70, then it is likely that the thermostat is stuck open. The thermostat is about 70 quid from memory. EGR valves are also worth keeping an eye on.
Alfaowner is a very informative forum and one of the good things about owning a car that has 'issues' is that other people have been through it before so will in the first instance have good information on what is actually wrong and then good advice on what needs to be done to fix it. There are also good guides on things such as the climate control fix and also the ECU reset procedure.
Would I have another? No, probably not. As much as I try to deny it, it does feel like ticking a box. Don't get me wrong, I love the car and I'm now at a point that I'm fully on top of any issue. They've all been done! Its MOT and a service is due in June (not expecting anything bad), so I may consider seeing if there are any offers that tempt after then and have a change. Would please my mechanic as well as he's not really an Alfa fan!
I got my late 2003 1.9 JTDm Veloce Sportwagon (so full facelift) in February last year to replace a Saab 9-3 SE. Fancied a change, fancied a small estate, fancied a diesel (I know) and truth be told, fancied an Alfa (but not to conform to any 'You Must Own an Alfa at Least Once' stereotype I must add). It's Nero black with the Alfa Tech suede interior, no roof rails but I do have genuine lockable roof bars and Alfa bike racks.
First thing to say is that I went into Alfa and especially 156, ownership with my eyes completely open. I was well read on the issues relating to them and was prepared for them should they arise. And so the story begins.
Looked at many cars, scoured all the classifieds, scoured eBay. They seemed to sell extremely quickly. Looked at a few, prices ranging from suspiciously cheap to eye wateringly expensive. My search was always narrowed to trade sales, not private, always to the 1.9 rather than the 2.4 and had to be Veloce spec. One popped up onto Autotrader one Friday afternoon, I actually rang the guy whilst he was uploading the pictures and arranged to go and see him the next day first thing, which he was a touch surprised at as he was about 200 miles away.
Saw car, liked car, car was good price, car had been serviced and maintained well. HPI check done and a deal was done, picked it up the next week. It was important to me that there was good history with the car and that the timing belt had been done properly. This was all documented. There were some bits on the car that I knew would need attention, those being the thermostat, the brakes, tyres, climate control dials and the service indicator. His garage couldn't remove the service due indicator, but I'd spoken to them on the phone and seen the paperwork so was happy that the work had been done, which was born out by the obviously new oil filter etc. I reset the service indicator before I drove off the forecourt.
Got the car home, sidelight bulb blew which is fun to replace, drove around for a week or so and booked it into my mechanic for a full check over and some work to be done, specifically light service, full brake check, find a small oil leak and thermostat replacement. It turned into light service, front discs and pads with fluid flush through, thermostat with coolant flush through, fix oil leak and new radiator. Rears discs were lipped but okay for more service. The rear pads were nearly new having been replaced at the previous owners last service.
The climate control dials get dry solder joints on the pick ups which means that the temperature can dance all over the place. Easy enough to fix with a soldering iron. I also took the gear linkage apart on top of the box (simple job) and cleaned up and greased. The symptoms are that the gear lever stops returning to centre.
Happy days.
Then I got a screw in one of the tyres so 4 new ones were put on.
Went through an MOT 4 months later with no issues, only advisory being rear handbrake cables, which are a common issue.
Couple of months after than I noticed another leak under the car and investigations found it to be a clear reddy liquid, so that'll be power steering fluid then. You'll get used to checking for leaks. The power steering pipes originally fitted were alloy and were fixed with steel fixings. Sensible (and more of this particular issue later). Corrosion occurs and fluid makes an escape. Booked in for that, nightmare job but all done okay.
By this time I got fed up of the atrocious factory stereo so fitted an aftermarket Kenwood that fitted in quite well with the overall dash, very simple in design and with red illumination. This requires a little bit of work as the OEM stereo is a non standard size, so an adapter is needed. I went a bit further and blended the adapter into the new stereo surround and painted it silver to match the rest of the dash. Much better all round.
Then one day I arrived at work and my colleague mentioned the quite strong smell of diesel outside. Thought nothing of it until we came to leave and the smell of diesel sort of led me to my car. Turned out a plastic duct on top of the engine, low pressure luckily, had broken so diesel was being chucked onto the road and onto the engine. Booked in and fixed for 90 quid. Maybe I could have done it myself but I have an aversion to working on diesel fuel systems.
Fast forward to this week, nothing apart from another couple of blown sidelight bulbs (hateful hateful things). Noticed the rear brakes were squealing so booked in to get those checked and the day before it went in I noticed another leak underneath. Out with the trusty piece of cardboard and it's clear reddy fluid again, so the other power steering pipe has gone. Add it to the job list. Rear brakes (discs and pads) replaced along with handbrake cables without issue. Then it came to the power steering pipe, which was the low pressure one and required the rack to be moved forward to get it into position. This is where the aluminium and steel issue comes into the story again. The rack is aluminium, the bolts are steel. Can you guess what happened? Yes, first bolt took two hours to get out, the second bolt took half a turn and then broke the entire mounting lug off the rack. Oh bother, new rack then.
So that's the story up to now, I'm just awaiting the last bill.
So some thoughts after just over a year of ownership.
Overall I love it. I really 'get' Alfa's. When it is running right it is a joy to own and drive. It looks great, it returns good mileage (high 40's on a short commute). It took four of us from Brighton to northern Holland over New Year in complete comfort.
You have to go into ownership with your eyes open, I believe. The brakes are never going to set the world on fire, the feel is actually quite poor so I have to be a bit careful jumping between the Elise and Alfa. The factory radio is awful, just awful. Non existent radio reception and no integrated iPod connectivity of any worth. Suspension bushes should really be seen as a service item and they don't come as a bush, it's a new arm. Touch wood, mine have been fine. They all tend to squeak as well when they get dry. It is vital to keep an eye on the temp gauge. If it is running cool, below 70, then it is likely that the thermostat is stuck open. The thermostat is about 70 quid from memory. EGR valves are also worth keeping an eye on.
Alfaowner is a very informative forum and one of the good things about owning a car that has 'issues' is that other people have been through it before so will in the first instance have good information on what is actually wrong and then good advice on what needs to be done to fix it. There are also good guides on things such as the climate control fix and also the ECU reset procedure.
Would I have another? No, probably not. As much as I try to deny it, it does feel like ticking a box. Don't get me wrong, I love the car and I'm now at a point that I'm fully on top of any issue. They've all been done! Its MOT and a service is due in June (not expecting anything bad), so I may consider seeing if there are any offers that tempt after then and have a change. Would please my mechanic as well as he's not really an Alfa fan!
Brilliant write up Firecracker. Has helped immensely.
Though nothing major has gone wrong with your SW, it does seem that there are a few niggles that can cause issue.
I would imagine these issues would be prevalent on the majority of 156 out there. Definitely food for thought as these are coming into the price bracket where people will scrimp on maintenance.
Thanks again for the lengthy report
Ever considered having it remapped? I would imagine it is swift enough but more is never a bad thing.
Though nothing major has gone wrong with your SW, it does seem that there are a few niggles that can cause issue.
I would imagine these issues would be prevalent on the majority of 156 out there. Definitely food for thought as these are coming into the price bracket where people will scrimp on maintenance.
Thanks again for the lengthy report
Ever considered having it remapped? I would imagine it is swift enough but more is never a bad thing.
Tonberry said:
Brilliant write up Firecracker. Has helped immensely.
Though nothing major has gone wrong with your SW, it does seem that there are a few niggles that can cause issue.
I would imagine these issues would be prevalent on the majority of 156 out there. Definitely food for thought as these are coming into the price bracket where people will scrimp on maintenance.
Thanks again for the lengthy report
You're welcome and thanks. Indeed, you really do need to find one with good history (if you're still looking in June.....). It's always true that you shouldn't buy the first car you see, it's especially true with these (IMO).Though nothing major has gone wrong with your SW, it does seem that there are a few niggles that can cause issue.
I would imagine these issues would be prevalent on the majority of 156 out there. Definitely food for thought as these are coming into the price bracket where people will scrimp on maintenance.
Thanks again for the lengthy report
Alfa Workshop;
http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_romeo_156.shtml
have some very good info on the 156 including a buyers guide and a how to section.
Tonberry said:
Ever considered having it remapped? I would imagine it is swift enough but more is never a bad thing.
I have an Elise for that 
Tonberry said:
Brilliant write up Firecracker. Has helped immensely.
Though nothing major has gone wrong with your SW, it does seem that there are a few niggles that can cause issue.
I would imagine these issues would be prevalent on the majority of 156 out there. Definitely food for thought as these are coming into the price bracket where people will scrimp on maintenance.
Thanks again for the lengthy report
Ever considered having it remapped? I would imagine it is swift enough but more is never a bad thing.
My old 2.4 10 valve Sportwagon Veloce is coming up for sale shortly. I sold it to another AROC member who has looked after it very well so mechanically a lot of the big stuff is out of the way - belts year before last, new clutch/dual-mass fly & steering rack in the last year and new Brembo front discs and Ferodo DS Performance pads in the last month. It's got 17" Alfa alloys on Goodyear F1s, Alfa strut brace and the very rare (and expensive!) black leather sports seats with electric recline. It's a 2002 facelift model with 91,000 miles. The current owner is looking for £2000 and I can pass your details on if you are interested.Though nothing major has gone wrong with your SW, it does seem that there are a few niggles that can cause issue.
I would imagine these issues would be prevalent on the majority of 156 out there. Definitely food for thought as these are coming into the price bracket where people will scrimp on maintenance.
Thanks again for the lengthy report
Ever considered having it remapped? I would imagine it is swift enough but more is never a bad thing.
RicksAlfas said:
My old 2.4 10 valve Sportwagon Veloce is coming up for sale shortly. I sold it to another AROC member who has looked after it very well so mechanically a lot of the big stuff is out of the way - belts year before last, new clutch/dual-mass fly & steering rack in the last year and new Brembo front discs and Ferodo DS Performance pads in the last month. It's got 17" Alfa alloys on Goodyear F1s, Alfa strut brace and the very rare (and expensive!) black leather sports seats with electric recline. It's a 2002 facelift model with 91,000 miles. The current owner is looking for £2000 and I can pass your details on if you are interested.
YHM This has caught my attention. Would love an example owned by an enthusiast!
I would be grateful if you could give an insight into your ownership experience as your profile doesn't list too much.
Cheers
It's sold already I'm afraid.
I owned the car from new and sold it at about 45000 miles and 4 years old. It gave me very little grief from what I can remember. It needed a new top engine mount (clonking through the bulkhead), a new battery to starter motor cable as the clamp cracked, and a couple of suspension bushes. It wore it's tyres evenly but the fronts only lasted about 10000 miles as the 2.4 is a heavy lump. The only downside on all these cars is the suspension. It has limited travel and bumpy roads can be a bit of a handful but I still think they are one of the best looking modern cars around.
I owned the car from new and sold it at about 45000 miles and 4 years old. It gave me very little grief from what I can remember. It needed a new top engine mount (clonking through the bulkhead), a new battery to starter motor cable as the clamp cracked, and a couple of suspension bushes. It wore it's tyres evenly but the fronts only lasted about 10000 miles as the 2.4 is a heavy lump. The only downside on all these cars is the suspension. It has limited travel and bumpy roads can be a bit of a handful but I still think they are one of the best looking modern cars around.
Hi Tonberry, recently purchased a 2007 159 1.9JTDM with 98,000 miles on the clock! Here's my take on it...
I narrowed my search to the 1.9, rather than the 2.4 because the general feedback from owners and people in the know was that it's the more reliable engine. As I say, mine has 98,000 miles on the clock, it's had the belts changed and all the essential stuff for the miles, and I can report that it runs quietly, pulls smoothly and on a 100 mile trip from Coventry to Oxford the other day managed 52mpg on the motorway.
My car's finished in the Nero Oceano (black) but it's worth checking the paint close up because there was a problem with flaking on some of the early models, look out for re-sprays if you go for the Nero Oceana in particular. Mine has the rather garish tan leather interior, I don't mind it, (being an ex TVR owner I'm accustomed to "alternative" color schemes!) but it's not to everyones taste. What I can say is after 98,000 miles, even the drivers seat was not worn, nor is the stearing wheel. All of the leather looks brand new. There are a few small scratches to the silver trim on the dash which looks like the weakest point of the interior. Other than that it's stood the test inside. What surprised me was that after al those miles, there is not a single squeak or rattle from the interior fittings.
I'm not sure on the difference in trim levels, as I was more concerned about mechanical stuff, but mine has bluetooth, USB, independent climate control, voice activation and other gismo's, what it doesn't have is electric or heated seats, which in an ideal world I would quite like. Not sure if they were an option or not, as I say the trim level not being my major concern as I was buying higher milage.
Problems/Worries:
I've had a couple of bulbs blow in fairly quick succession, and upon replacing the rear license plate bulb, the clip which holds the housing in (a small metal springy clip) snapped. There is a tiny squeak from the rear suspension when you drive over speed bumps, but other than that I have to say there have been no issues with it at all.
Overall though, I'm really impressed with it. I drive a lot of different cars all the time, often brand new ones. My 2005 BMW has more rattles having covered only half the miles. My other daily drive at the moment is a 60 plate Volvo. The Alfa is easily as quite and refined.
I think certainly in my cars case, it looks like you can get pretty decent longevity, at least out of the 1.9 engine, and it seems the rest of the car's stood up pretty well too. Obviously, it depends on the individual car, mine's two owners, fleet company and one private owner who seems to have looked after it very well and kept up the Alfa SH.
I paid a bit over £6K, from a private seller on the south coast, insurance was pretty reasonable too.
Things to look out for:
Flakey paint.
Diesel Injector leaks.
Erratic turbo pressure.
Electrical sensor problems - Very common fault on the 1.9JTDM's is apparently the engine light coming on, then going out...
Hope that's any kind of help!
Regards!
PS, worth saying, my factory stereo sounds good, (I work in music so I'm fussy about it, it's no B&O but it's better than in my friends 2003 fully loaded Audi S4.)
Also, agree the brakes are a bit soggy feeling at times, at least compared to my M6. But it's a sensible saloon and they still feel much more responsive than say an X-Type. Had a lot of performance cars over the last few years, driven Lambos, Porkers, Brabus, Audis, quick Beemers Jags and TVR's..... Have to say, I think the Alfa handles very well for a front wheel drive car, in fact the only FWD car I remember rating higher is the Abarth 500... Granted I've got the good pirelli's on mine, but there's no hint of understeer under quick cornering, I'm sure you could provoke understeer, but the traction control does a good job and isn't intrusive when cornering "enthusiastically"
I narrowed my search to the 1.9, rather than the 2.4 because the general feedback from owners and people in the know was that it's the more reliable engine. As I say, mine has 98,000 miles on the clock, it's had the belts changed and all the essential stuff for the miles, and I can report that it runs quietly, pulls smoothly and on a 100 mile trip from Coventry to Oxford the other day managed 52mpg on the motorway.
My car's finished in the Nero Oceano (black) but it's worth checking the paint close up because there was a problem with flaking on some of the early models, look out for re-sprays if you go for the Nero Oceana in particular. Mine has the rather garish tan leather interior, I don't mind it, (being an ex TVR owner I'm accustomed to "alternative" color schemes!) but it's not to everyones taste. What I can say is after 98,000 miles, even the drivers seat was not worn, nor is the stearing wheel. All of the leather looks brand new. There are a few small scratches to the silver trim on the dash which looks like the weakest point of the interior. Other than that it's stood the test inside. What surprised me was that after al those miles, there is not a single squeak or rattle from the interior fittings.
I'm not sure on the difference in trim levels, as I was more concerned about mechanical stuff, but mine has bluetooth, USB, independent climate control, voice activation and other gismo's, what it doesn't have is electric or heated seats, which in an ideal world I would quite like. Not sure if they were an option or not, as I say the trim level not being my major concern as I was buying higher milage.
Problems/Worries:
I've had a couple of bulbs blow in fairly quick succession, and upon replacing the rear license plate bulb, the clip which holds the housing in (a small metal springy clip) snapped. There is a tiny squeak from the rear suspension when you drive over speed bumps, but other than that I have to say there have been no issues with it at all.
Overall though, I'm really impressed with it. I drive a lot of different cars all the time, often brand new ones. My 2005 BMW has more rattles having covered only half the miles. My other daily drive at the moment is a 60 plate Volvo. The Alfa is easily as quite and refined.
I think certainly in my cars case, it looks like you can get pretty decent longevity, at least out of the 1.9 engine, and it seems the rest of the car's stood up pretty well too. Obviously, it depends on the individual car, mine's two owners, fleet company and one private owner who seems to have looked after it very well and kept up the Alfa SH.
I paid a bit over £6K, from a private seller on the south coast, insurance was pretty reasonable too.
Things to look out for:
Flakey paint.
Diesel Injector leaks.
Erratic turbo pressure.
Electrical sensor problems - Very common fault on the 1.9JTDM's is apparently the engine light coming on, then going out...
Hope that's any kind of help!
Regards!
PS, worth saying, my factory stereo sounds good, (I work in music so I'm fussy about it, it's no B&O but it's better than in my friends 2003 fully loaded Audi S4.)
Also, agree the brakes are a bit soggy feeling at times, at least compared to my M6. But it's a sensible saloon and they still feel much more responsive than say an X-Type. Had a lot of performance cars over the last few years, driven Lambos, Porkers, Brabus, Audis, quick Beemers Jags and TVR's..... Have to say, I think the Alfa handles very well for a front wheel drive car, in fact the only FWD car I remember rating higher is the Abarth 500... Granted I've got the good pirelli's on mine, but there's no hint of understeer under quick cornering, I'm sure you could provoke understeer, but the traction control does a good job and isn't intrusive when cornering "enthusiastically"
Edited by Tom Clarke on Wednesday 6th April 03:59
The simple answer is yes buy , but to be more specific I would want to know what model and year you were looking at.
If you want a 156/159 then the Sportwagon is the one to go for in my opinion. I would also go for the Lusso trim option, because despite what some may tell you it is not a sports car. Decide how you want to use it and then what you expect from it.
Also Alfas are the most individual cars I have ever owned. What goes right/wrong with one car is no indication of what may or may not go wrong with yours.
Edited due to Heineken induced spelling
If you want a 156/159 then the Sportwagon is the one to go for in my opinion. I would also go for the Lusso trim option, because despite what some may tell you it is not a sports car. Decide how you want to use it and then what you expect from it.
Also Alfas are the most individual cars I have ever owned. What goes right/wrong with one car is no indication of what may or may not go wrong with yours.
Edited due to Heineken induced spelling
Edited by jake15919 on Monday 11th April 11:21
Alpha? Wash your mouth out!
Assuming the OP is talking 156 rather than any other car (GT, 159?) then frankly I don't agree with them being particularly "individual", there are a lot of common faults and they all turn up sooner or later. I certainly seem to be ticking them off at a depressingly regular rate on mine.
Assuming the OP is talking 156 rather than any other car (GT, 159?) then frankly I don't agree with them being particularly "individual", there are a lot of common faults and they all turn up sooner or later. I certainly seem to be ticking them off at a depressingly regular rate on mine.
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